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I discovered my departed GF might have been unfaithful...


fzald

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16 hours ago, fzald said:

Prior to now, I'd "accepted" that she was gone

You accepted it to the extent that you had grieved, but now that you are grieving even more in depth, you are feeling it all the more.  Before you had round one, now you are experiencing round two, even fuller.  But this is not a waste, as we must allow ourselves to feel our grief in order to process it...it is my guess that you had processed to a point, but now are processing it even more.  It won't always be these keenly acute of pain, but needs must be to feel this to get through it.  And you are also experiencing the comfort with it, the closeness to her...that closeness can be carried throughout our lives even as we learn a different way of relating with them.

https://whatsyourgrief.com/changing-your-relationship-with-grief/

https://whatsyourgrief.com/grief-concept-care-continuing-bonds/

https://blog.aftertalk.com/2176-2/

 

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Continuing bonds speaks loud and clear to me. I believe that I was actually practicing that theory up until this point. I think it was a little extreme of our friend to say that "all I ever do is talk about her", at least prior to this week. Sure, I mentioned her from time to time. Sure, I remembered both good and bad things. I would still feel a little pang of sadness driving by her old house, or eating at our favorite restaurants. I would occasionally shed a tear hearing a song she loved. But it was not all-consuming grief. It was something I had learned to live with, to accept as my new reality, and adjust to. I know I will never forget her, and I had learned how to live with her in my heart.

This week, however, a lot of that recovery was shattered with one single comment on the Internet. Yes, her existence and her spirit are intertwined with mine. She is part of me. So, anyone attacking her character in such a way is going to also attack me. Yes, my friend is right, I've been shaken to quite a degree over this situation. 

But maybe what this means is that my relationship with her is actually strengthening, becoming even stronger, even though she's gone. I feel like this accusation was a test of my love for her. Even though the other guy most likely just lied about it, that doesn't change the circumstance - that it shook the very foundation of the grief healing I'd done and the love I still carry for her.

And since then, I've been focusing on reinforcing and reassuring myself of that love. The more the "facts" pour in, the easier this becomes to do. My other friend who knows this other guy somewhat said he has been known to be a heavy drug user in the past and still is a heavy marijuana user and drinker (so he may have just been high and off his rocker when making that comment in the first place), and indeed at one point had claimed to be an active illicit drug dealer and user back in 2016 - I know for a fact my GF would never want to be involved with someone like that. 

The more I resolve myself to the fact that this did not happen and that it was a lie, the more I find myself grieving our relationship again. Because believing it's not true also means believing in the love she had for me, and with the thought of that love now once again so close to the forefront of my thoughts, it's brought back all the hurt and pain of her loss. But through it all, it could just be argued that it's a manifestation of the depth of the love I had for her, the idea that she can still affect me this much is not a bad thing, but yet a testament to the intensity and fullness of my love for her and our relationship. And I'm discovering a new depth of our love that I hadn't previously dove into.

And yet at the same time, our friend is right - she would not want me suffering. She wouldn't want me oversleeping and struggling to eat and all of those horrible things that happen during grieving, like now. Last night, I wrote to her for the first time in a couple years. I cried quite heavy, and I asked her to forgive me. In my letter, I promise her that I don't believe this accusation, that I love her and continue to love her more than life itself, and that I need her strength and forgiveness as I forge through another round of grief. 

 

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2 hours ago, fzald said:

I think it was a little extreme of our friend to say that "all I ever do is talk about her"

That is insensitive and downright uncouth for your friend to say!  When they have walked in your shoes, then they can share their opinion, not until.  I'm sorry.

2 hours ago, fzald said:

I've been focusing on reinforcing and reassuring myself of that love.

Good.  I went through similar tests although not to the extent you are, and made the choice to believe based on all I knew to be true about George and our relationship.  I haven't doubted since.  I know what we had/have.  Excuse my back and forth in past/present tense, sometimes it seems both.

 

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5 hours ago, KayC said:

That is insensitive and downright uncouth for your friend to say!  When they have walked in your shoes, then they can share their opinion, not until.  I'm sorry.

I agree, but I'm willing to be a little forgiving on this one because I think my friend otherwise had good points. The overarching point of his "monologue" is that she loved me and that me questioning it shouldn't be necessary. 

But regardless of the truth, I know I can forgive her. I feel this more and more every day. If it did happen, I can forgive it. If it didn't happen, I can still forgive her death and her leaving me behind. 

But the saddest thing is that it's actually made my love for her ever stronger and ever more deep. And this only makes me miss her and wish she was still here all the more. The knowledge that even this sort of threat wouldn't have had to break us up or destroy us is even more reason to miss her and wish so abdly she hadn't left.

I can forgive her for having to leave. I can even forgive any unproven misdeeds. But I can't be happy with it. Not right now. I was "happier" before, but I can't be happy now. I miss her more than I've ever missed her, possibly even more than I did when she first died. The realization that a love you once shared was and is as strong as the love I had for her is bittersweet. I think I always knew it, but this week, I feel it more than ever. Just as how falling astray can ultimately strengthen a relationship in life, so can it in death. As Carrie Underwood once sang: "When you figure out love is all that matters after all, it sure make everything else seem so small." This is how I feel tonight.

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I like that you are working through all this.  I know it's been tough, but you are doing it.
And as for being happy...I have not had the kind of happiness I had with George, yet I've had moments of happiness and have learned to embrace them and appreciate them for what they are.  My sweet beautiful dog, Arlie, brought me joy, but now even that has evaporated...I can look back and remember it, but it went with him into his grave.

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It's different today. Worse in a way. But definitely different.

Through the past week, I've done almost nothing but remember her, think of the good times, look at photos, videos, etc. of us together. These things were bringing me a strange sort of temporary comfort. From the outside, it feels like what happened was that the foundation of my love and relationship with her was threatened by that guy's comment, and so I reassured myself of our love, not just from my own memories, but also from those "memories" that are preserved in tangible form. Proof of the time we had together. When I would feel sadness, which was much of the time this week, I'd look at something. I even had some items "set aside" since they were particularly good memories of our time in this world together. Text conversations in which we discuss our future plans. Some of the last pictures we have of us. And especially, conversations from around the time that this alleged encounter occurred, in which it is quite evident she is still looking at me as her partner. Looking at these things brought me comfort. I would lay back on the couch and play a video, and just listen, even closing my eyes and hearing our voices together.

But today, I don't think I can do that anymore. I now have a different feeling. Even the thought of looking at our photos or memories is gut-wrenching. This morning is the first morning I didn't wake up by looking at something of us together. It's almost like those memories have become a minefield. Opening the box (or more like the folder on the computer) feels dangerous, as if it's going to explode in my face somehow. Maybe figuratively this is exactly what it is, that the emotions will explode. I don't know if this means I'm starting to go into a protective mode, where my brain can't handle any more of this deep emotion?

I definitely am still thinking of her every moment I'm awake. But in a way it's even harder now. I don't even know if it means maybe I'm having new doubts, or if it just means I'm emotionally drained, or what it means. The thought of her possibly having cheated still throws a huge pang of pain into my stomach, but that does seem to be happening less often. But I also feel exhausted. I'm at work and trying to focus and having trouble. I'm having to make up excuses as to why I seem lethargic or slow. Most people just won't ever be able to understand how you still can deeply grieve the loss of something you lost three years ago. There absolutely is an attitude of "time to move on", and up until last week I appeared to be doing just that to those around me. Now, for the first time, true grief has gripped me yet again, over the same person, and nobody truly understands other than my closest friends and family and the folks on this board.

And yet, maybe there still is a nagging doubt somewhere in me, that wants to say "if she was unfaithful, who cares if she doesn't want me to suffer...by being unfaithful she would have caused me to suffer, so what difference does it make now?" Maybe part of me is angry that if it happened I can't confront her, that I can't express the anger to her in a way she'd perceive, and often expressing that anger is the first step towards forgiveness and acceptance. I can't even express the anger now because I don't know if it happened and there's lots of signs to say it didn't.

I want to find strength again. I had it. I knew I had moved forward, and the thought of her helped me do it. I don't know what I'm doing anymore.

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I am back to the point where everything reminds me of her. It is actually a strange thing, since she has been gone so long, and since I felt I was doing so well. A couple weeks ago, if I went to our favorite restaurant, it was OK. I might have been a tiny, tiny bit sad, but I'd still smile at the memory. It was definitely not enough to cause emotional distress. But now, even going by that restaurant is opening up painful wounds. It feels so much like she just left last week, like I'm back in February 2017, when the grief was fresh and raw. The obsessive pining and mourning are back. The yearning and pleading for her to be alive is back. I don't know why it's so strong again exactly, other than perhaps I opened some wounds myself by spending so much time looking at our memories. But the agony is real again. She died in 2017, but she may as well have just died last week, on the day I was abused with thoughtless comments. Sometimes it feels like those last few moments just happened in September, not in January 2017. It feels like she's once again so, so close, and yet just out of reach.

Did I ever "recover" at all? Did I ever actually move forward? Or have I been living my entire life on a dream, on a possible lie? Have I actually done anything for me, or have I only done things for "us"? Am I still hopelessly dependent on her even in death? I don't know, but the pain and hurt of grief are as strong as ever once again, and I am back to feeling like I can't do it and don't want to do it. How do you grieve the same loss a second time?

 

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I am STILL grieving the same loss as I have been for over 14 years.

And my dog...I've been grieving him for two months...the possibility of adding another dog to my household is hard because it's bringing up other feelings...I don't want my Arlie to feel I'm replacing him, I'm not and couldn't, there IS no replacement for him.  

In my opinion ALL grief is complicated, no two the same, but they affix the LABEL "complicated" after "a prolonged period of time and it affects your ability to function."  Hmm...who has lost their spouse and NOT had it last a prolonged period of time or NOT had it affect their functionality?  I don't like labels as labeling does little to help you moving forward, but working through your grief, with a professional grief counselor if needed, DOES help.

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When my GF and I were together, we told each other stories about our past relationships. In two previous relationships prior to her, I had been cheated on. I remember telling her of these incidents and how much they hurt at the time.

I remember an especially tender moment. She hugged me, kissed me and said "F, I PROMISE you that I will NEVER do that to you. I love you too much to make you hurt like that. I'm here now, you'll never feel that again, I promise." 

That moment was so heartfelt, so endearing. It melted down the walls I'd built around myself for protection. It was one of the largest steps in my opening up fully to her with trust. There is nothing quite like someone you love immensely saying something like that to you right after you struggle to reveal something troubling from your past. That moment has always been there somewhere in my memory. And I want to believe it more than ever now. But sometimes I wonder if the very thought of this pillar of our love being threatened is why I'm such a wreck now.

Throughout all of the grieving process, one of the things I did hold very dear is "she was TRUE and REAL, she wasn't screwing around with me like others were, SHE NEVER COULD do that (she said so), she TRULY LOVED me, she was that ONE who actually loved me." Maybe this is why the thought, even the possibility, that something happened is so emotionally draining? And the thing is there still is no evidence of anything, except one person's word. But perhaps it's exposing one of my deepest fears in relationships, given that I'd experienced it already before. And without her here to answer it, I'm forced to face that fear head on, and there's no resolution. 

This is more than grief in a way. This is trauma. Trauma for something imagined without proof. 

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dailystruggle

Yesterday a friend did some (gentle) tough love that helped me in a profound way. My thoughts were going dark again, and I reached out to her for help. She knew all the characters  in the scenario well.

She said," D, he showed you that he loved you daily.  You were his lover, friend, confidant, and go to person.  His friendships were important to him, and he stayed true to that.  If one friend wanted to twist that out of context, then that's on them, not him. It is in his character to apologize for the misunderstanding, but nothing that he said admits to any wrongdoing."

That brought me back to center.  I want to grieve his loss, not the loss of the memory of our spectacular marriage.  I'm choosing faith in him.

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13 minutes ago, dailystruggle said:

I'm choosing faith in him.

Good for you.  Wise choice and shows the confidence you have in the love you shared. 

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I do choose faith in her. It's what I've chosen all along, and it's what I choose now.

But I just wish I didn't have to feel like I'm re-grieving.

Sometimes I like to think that my desire not to feel this way is her spirit speaking through me. She wouldn't want me grieving this much, to a point where it's affecting my life, especially this much later. I feel like that voice in me that says "Why must I be feeling this now?" is actually her voice saying "Why must you be feeling this now"? The anger I feel at myself is also anger from her, that I'm being affected so much by this situation, that I'm actually struggling to perform my job at work and am struggling to eat and wake up on time. It's frustrating. I know she wouldn't want this. I even feel like she is sort of expressing this through me.

And sometimes when I feel the doubts creep in, and wonder if something may have happened, I find myself angry at myself again. How could I possibly believe something like that? How could I possibly even entertain it? And maybe again it's her spirit asking me those questions. The pain I feel at the idea that she may have strayed is really her pain at the idea that I would even entertain that notion. 

But it's not enough. It's not enough to just not want to feel it. It's not enough to just want to be OK. I'm not OK. And I feel guilty. I feel her anger and my guilt. I want to be OK. For me, but also for her. I want to keep going in the direction I was going up until a couple weeks ago. I want to be back where her memory is a driving force behind my progress, not a roadblock to be "dealt with". 

Why can't I get back there? Why can't I just be OK, even if not happy, again? Why can't I do it for us? Why am I so weak?

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dailystruggle

I truly don't think this is a matter of your weakness.  You are grieving.  Plus you had a shock to your system, your very foundation, that made you question everything. Believe me, I completely understand  that.  It seems that it has reset your "grieving timeline" if there is such a thing.  You could believe something like that because, 1. Someone stated it as a fact, and 2. You don't have her to  fact check with.  Losing your GF was traumatic.  Having someone state someone that makes you question everything is another deep wound.  I find that I get my head in the right place then it drifts, and I have to really work on gaining perspective again.  For me, it MAGNIFIED his absence because I couldn't fact check with him. It made me long for him, his comfort and the comfort of our relationship all the more.  You were retraumatized.  Try to be kinder to yourself.

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18 hours ago, fzald said:

She hugged me, kissed me and said "F, I PROMISE you that I will NEVER do that to you. I love you too much to make you hurt like that. I'm here now, you'll never feel that again, I promise." 

Take her at her word.

18 hours ago, dailystruggle said:

I'm choosing faith in him.

It is necessary, it IS a choice.  And we who knew our relationships, we CONTINUE that faith in them, because the choice started back when we let them in.
I remember someone here quite some time ago was hit with her husband's infidelities which she discovered after he was gone.  It was so hard for her to work through alone without the benefit of him answering to it.  But people can be complex creatures and although it was wrong of him to do it, it did not necessarily mean he didn't love her.  He had a whole other side unbeknownst to her...I see that as a very different situation than yours, fzald.  Even in her situation, she had to accept that he did love her but unfortunately had all these secrets.  Not the love she would have chosen, but it didn't totally deny his feelings for her.  Still, I wanted to smack him for her!

 

17 hours ago, fzald said:

But I just wish I didn't have to feel like I'm re-grieving.

I don't think you're starting all over with the grief...our grief starts when they die (or we know they're going to) but it continues the rest of our life.  It does evolve as we adjust, do our grief work and yet triggers can hit us any given day along the way.  Something like losing a job or having surgery without them there to support us can make us keenly feel that grief afresh.  We do what we can to learn about grief and do our work and that all helps.

https://www.griefhealingblog.com/2014/03/bereavement-doing-work-of-grief.html
http://ezinearticles.com/?Youve-Got-the-Power-How-to-Know-If-You-Are-Doing-Your-Grief-Work&id=9047323

http://www.griefhealingblog.com/2014/08/grief-understanding-process.html

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18 hours ago, fzald said:

I feel guilty. I feel her anger and my guilt.

I wish I could tell you NOT to feel that way, but we don't always get to decide our feelings, our feelings come to us unbidden and then we have to deal with them, not always easy or fun!  But I have utmost confidence in you that you WILL work through this.  You've already shown yourself to be that type of person.  You ARE working through it.  Just remember her love for you, what SHE would say to you.  Would she not be sympathetic and caring for all you have been through?

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13 hours ago, dailystruggle said:

For me, it MAGNIFIED his absence because I couldn't fact check with him. It made me long for him, his comfort and the comfort of our relationship all the more.  You were retraumatized.  Try to be kinder to yourself.

I think you expressed here exactly what I'm experiencing. The longing for her is just wanting to know, to clarify, to hear her voice say "HELL NO that never happened, how dare he say this!" To hear from her own lips that this guy is full of it and is trying to screw with her memory and my grief.

13 hours ago, dailystruggle said:

I find that I get my head in the right place then it drifts, and I have to really work on gaining perspective again.

Yes, absolutely. I can think it through, rationalize it, look at all the evidence and make a clear, informed conclusion that it never happened. I feel better at that point. I even feel a little bit of the life coming back into me. I feel a little bit of that zing I had before last week peeking through. I know that part of me is in there, begging to get back out. But then I end up ruminating over it all again in my head, without even intending or wanting to, and have to re-work the entire thing over in my head again.

Relationships are hard work, but they're very rewarding for the work you put into them. Grief is also hard work, but it's a lot harder to see the rewards, especially at first. A relationship is an investment, something you put effort into in order to add something beautiful and wonderful to your life. Grief on the other hand feels like something that was taken away from you and is now being sold back to you at a cost. Your happiness, your motivation, all of these great things that make us amazing people, disappears in a flash and leaves us crawling around the bottom of the well, desperate for a way out. And even after finding our way through, and even if and when we do rediscover some happiness in life, the guilt is always there, always ready to remind us of our loss, and to drag us down again. It's like life attached a permanent ball and chain to your leg. Your leg will of course get stronger over time and you may be able to even walk normally dragging this thing behind you, but that ball and chain never goes away.

27 minutes ago, KayC said:

Just remember her love for you, what SHE would say to you.  Would she not be sympathetic and caring for all you have been through?

I do believe in so many ways she would. I have been trying to figure out if the struggle is one of fear or one of evidence. Truth is, anyone is capable of bad things, and anyone is capable of weak moments in which bad things happen they don't intend. If someone was planning to break up with you, they may be sympathetic to your feelings about it, but they may not really "care" because they're looking out for their own needs or desires. As much as I logically can't believe this would have been the case, that demon voice is still down there, hiding, ready to start growling its growl at any moment, especially when I find a moment of calm. I've tried to start embracing the calm moments and cling to them, but that's still futile, it only takes one evil demon thought and I'm derailed again.

My work performance is suffering. My family is getting "tired" of hearing me repeat the same thing over and over. (I can sense that whenever I talk with family, they silently but urgently try to change the subject) I have some friends who are kind of being like an "AA" gang for me, helping me regain perspective when I hit my lowest points, which is great. But even so, I'm tired of this happening in the first place. I'm tired of needing to revisit this issue over and over. What I wish now, other than of course that my GF could still be here, is that I could bury this situation, let it go, let it disperse into the ether never to be heard of again. I love my GF, and this isn't fair to her. But also unfair was what this jerk did to me. It's an insult to me, to her, and to all her closest friends and family. And it's cruel.

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How would you be able to do that...let it all go?  Aside from her here telling you what you need to hear because unfortunately, that's not going to happen.  I think that's what you need to figure out.  Maybe it's time?  Maybe it's confronting the lies?  It was cruel, to both of you.  Is knowing what a jerk this individual is enough for you to let it go?  Only you can answer that question.  Sometimes we can't see it for ourselves and we need a little help processing through it, especially when we are spinning.   Your family and friends aren't trained to help you through this situation.  There is something called compassion fatigue where people do tire of the trauma and can no longer feel sympathetic about it.  This too is a good reason to see a professional.   

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I don't know what's "enough" to let it go.

She can't tell me what I need to hear, so I feel like I'm desperately scrounging every possible avenue to find evidence that she would have said what I need her to say had she been alive to do it.

But the problem is the doubt. That doubt may be largely sourced from my prior relationships and not from her, but it's still there.

There's a large amount of information that would prove this guy wrong. Given all of the known facts and the gut feeling of multiple people who knew my GF, this guy is lying. There are things that don't add up. We can agree and resolve that it is extremely, extremely unlikely that anything happened at all, and that this guy was just jealous and started bragging to cause harm.

But if I dig deep, very very deep, there are little things that could, potentially, maybe, just barely, on the very edge case, show that something may have happened. She did spend time alone with this guy. He did show a strong interest in her. She did make those eerie comments about sex in new relationships. If you add up all of the possible signs that something may have happened, you end up with a nonzero chance that there was something going on.

Then there's the nuance. Assuming anything did happen, was it actually desire to enter a relationship with someone else? Or was it a fling? Why was she still initiating sex with me? Why was she asking me to help her with choosing an apartment for "us"?

This is an endless circle of grief. It's basically I agree she didn't do it -> I miss her -> numbness -> But what if... -> agony -> But she couldn't have done it because... -> repeat.

 

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I'm not sure I think anyone is capable of anything.  Some people are tried and true and you know that is not in their character.  They've proven themselves.  I guess given the right circumstances, but then you already know what the circumstances were like for the two of you.

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Logic Vs. Emotions, Round 2

Logically, I can pretty easily decide that my GF was truly faithful and nothing happened. I can make a list of why. I can read that list over and over and really believe it logically. In fact, here's a list - I can refer back to it myself here, but also for everyone else to understand my thought process.

  • She was still actively engaging in our relationship - spending time together, lovemaking, etc. (If you're interested in ending a relationship, you would likely be less engaged with it, even subtly. You would make more excuses, you likely wouldn't sleep together, etc.)
  • She would get visibly upset if I had to cancel a plan with her (for good reason of course), and would want to discuss immediately when it could be rescheduled. (If you were interested in leaving a relationship, a canceled plan would not upset you, you'd find it convenient.)
  • She was discussing making plans for our future, including moving in together and taking trips together. (It would require one to be quite cruel to not only engage with but continue to plan a relationship you're expecting to end.)
  • We had been discussing some of our own relationship hurdles, and becoming very serious about solving them. She had suggested that we keep the option open for couples counseling if we couldn't resolve things ourselves. (To me, being willing to suggest counseling in and of itself shows a dedication to the relationship and a desire to keep it going.)
  • She was always concerned if I seemed upset or angry. She sought reassurance from me. If she had any reason to think I may be angry with her, she'd want to discuss it as soon as we could. If it turned out I was just angry in general and not at her, she'd seem relieved, and would then want to talk about whatever was making me angry to help with it. Summary: she was emotionally involved and connected with me, and cared about my emotions.
  • She was becoming very close with my family, in particular my mom. She once said that she felt like my mom was almost a second mother to her, since she felt comfortable asking my mom about some things she didn't even feel comfortable asking her own mom about.
  • She died while she was out of town with her family. Before leaving, she was expressing excitement about coming back and seeing me the day she returned. She specifically was interested in sexual activity. 
  • She had a bubbly, cheerful, flirty personality, which a less-mature or desperate man could easily mistake as attraction. Also, some men will interpret any form of attention as attraction (i.e. "she spends time with me, she must like me"). 
  • After her death, many many people came to me to offer their condolences who either outright knew or highly suspected we had been dating. Some made heartfelt comments about how we seemed like such a good couple and how they could tell there was a strong bond between us.
  • Men can and do lie about their sexual past, often by bragging about sex they never had.
  • The guy made his statement abruptly without any real context or reason for doing so, other than that my GF was the topic of conversation. The only reasonable motive would be to express jealousy and lash out at me since I was her long-term relationship partner. 
  • My GF had introduced me to the guy in October (she passed in January, the alleged encounters were in November/December). She presented him as a friend and in fact said "I bet you and him would get along really well." (If you have feelings for another person and are even thinking about the idea of cheating or breaking up, you most certainly would not want to introduce that person to your boyfriend and encourage a friendship.)
  • Nobody, including people who were my GF's friends, believe the story. The only thing that anyone can confirm is that the other guy had expressed interest and attraction towards my GF. But out of more than five people, all of whom knew my GF, none of them ever heard about any sort of relationship, sexual or otherwise, between my GF and this guy, and in fact all believe it is far outside her character to be unfaithful. Everyone has given a variation of "I really don't believe anything happened between her and the other guy."
  • While she was hesitant to talk too deeply about our relationship itself (there's a long negative family history that's not worth detailing here), she DID actively state she was taken and had a boyfriend when people asked, going far back prior to these alleged encounters. One friend said she had asked her straight up if I was her BF, and my GF seemed to deflect the question, but did still maintain she had a BF. My GF's fear was that her family would be abusive towards her if she dated me, and this friend did speak to her family, so that may explain the deflection. This same friend also said there were many whispers about us being in a relationship, and despite the fact that my GF did not want to affirm it, many people believed it to be true anyway. Point is, she did NOT present herself as single and available and did not actively deny a relationship between her and I.
  • At least one friend of hers, as I showed in a previous post, said he really, really does believe with all his heart that she loved me sincerely, and that even if she had had a moment of weakness, it would have been resolvable between us. "She hated seeing people hurt, and most of all, she wouldn't want to see YOU hurt. For her to do this, she'd have had to know she was going to be hurting you, because truth will out - somehow, someday, that sort of thing will come out." 
  • We have reason to believe (but unfortunately cannot definitively prove) that the guy in question was actually out of state on a trip during the time that these alleged encounters occurred. (If he wasn't even here, he certainly couldn't have had any encounters)
  • Many other stories that the guy told seem farfetched or outrageous. For example, he claims to have been a heavy hard drug user around this time (my GF would not have, and certainly her family would not have, approved of this and she certainly wouldn't have wanted to date such a person). He even went so far as to claim he was an active drug dealer. Others in our group also claim to have observed him heavily drinking and using marijuana up to the present time. Those friend who were present for his outburst say they feel he'd been acting very strange up to that point to begin with, and suspect perhaps he was either high or drunk at the time, which is another reason to wonder if he imagined it or just made it up.

Here are the only points that would indicate that she was unfaithful:

  • One guy made an allegation that he slept with her.
  • She definitely was friends with the guy.
  • It is possible she did visit him alone in his house (but we can't prove that)
  • She did ask some rather specific questions regarding hypothetical scenarios in which a new couple is struggling with sex, around the time this allegedly happened (but it would seem really dangerous or just crass to ask your current boyfriend about a new lover, even if you anonymize the scenario)

Ok, so if you look at all of that, it's pretty easy to come to the conclusion that, almost certainly, nothing happened. Or, if anything did happen, it was a moment of weakness, a one-night stand, something we would have been able to easily recover from and work through. 

But no matter how much I can logically reassure and convince myself that I have nothing to worry about, that nothing truly happened, that this guy was just going for a cheap shot, my emotional side runs away with itself and screws with me. I'll wake up in the morning with a panic attack and a horrible nightmarish image going through my head of my GF breaking up with me for someone else. I'll go through my logical list of good points and my emotions will try to argue how each and every point might just be a deception or something else in disguise.

I really do believe in Occam's Razor (the simpler explanation usually is the right one). In this case, the simplest explanation is this jerk was jealous, got bothered because we were talking about my relationship with my GF and how much I loved her, and decided he needed to take a stab at me. His grief would have been surrounded by "what could have been" had he been able to "wear her down". My grief is more validated, especially among my friends, because everyone knows she was my long-term GF. So it would logically make the most sense that he was feeling angry at her having not agreed to date him when she was alive, and now hearing stories from the guy who had dated her, felt a need to angrily lash out and try to damage my own psyche and my own grief process. 

Sadly, he seems to have succeeded. Because again, no matter how much logic I apply, I seem to always fall back to that emotional black hole, where every possible worst scenario, no matter how absurd and improbable and just outrageous, comes out just because it could be true. She could have been stringing me along. She could have been just trying to find an exit to the relationship. She could have been honestly trying to do a polyamorous relationship without informing me. She could have been date raped, drugged, who knows what. And these thoughts swim around, with me hopeless to stop them. Before I know it, I'm in despair again.

I wish I had a strategy for combating the evil emotional thoughts. My friends and I have all resolved logically that this is so unlikely that it's not even worth entertaining the possibility. But my emotions can't be fought off with logic. Some people will say "just remember how much you loved each other" -- I never forget that, that thought is always in my mind, always has been since the day she died, but that thought alone just never seems to be enough to fight off the emotional demon. Some say "find something to distract yourself" -- this is pretty futile, since for me at least an emotional distress is all but impossible to ignore. I can pretend to do something else, but I'm never quite with it. Some say "just take your logical points and repeat them like a mantra." This feels like fighting fire with fire in a way - emotions will back down but they will not give up. And this doesn't do much for me when I'm sleeping and wake up with a nightmare or a panic attack - when I try to think logically then, my emotional side will "argue" against every point I have, coming up with absurd alternate realities that make little to no sense but in which my logic would not hold together. 

I want to get off this ride. It's not fun anymore. It never was fun. I love my GF. I choose to remember our love as the pure and good and faithful and true love it was and still is. I choose to believe her over the word of a jerk who just wanted to get in her pants and is jealous he didn't get to. But why can't I do it? How do I fight off the emotional tidal wave? There has to be some sort of psychological strategy for this... I wish I knew what it was. 

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Emotional vs Rational:

My therapist suggested some " thought stopping" techniques for  when my mind starts going down a painful path.  There are a lot, and you can google to find one that fits. When my "emotional/irrational" side gets the upper hand, I prefer this grounding technique. Breathe.  Then go through your 5 senses.  What do you see? Take the necessary time with that. Hear? Taste? Smell? and Feel?  You can do it in 5 minutes or 15.  It helps get you out of your head.  And your imagination  can be your very worst enemy.  It certainly is mine.

Hope you find one that works for you.

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My grief is shifting in a strange way. The best way I can describe it is that it’s a dull, persistent ache now, compared to a sharp, stabbing pain before.

I haven’t had as many of the intense grief events - panic attacks, intense crying, etc. for a day or two now. Last night, I found myself completely emotionally and physically drained. I couldn’t think clearly about anything, even my GF or my pain. I chose to relish the feeling, the temporary relief. No crying, no panic, no gut wrenching agony. Our bodies and minds can self regulate to a point and I guess my mind just couldn’t take any more. I went to sleep in a strange peaceful yet emotionally void state.

This morning I woke up and didn’t want to get up, but I can’t even really describe the feelings. I miss my GF terribly. I feel the intense longing and yearning for her. I feel her absence. But I can’t cry. I still can’t “feel” anything. I have no motivation at all, I have no desire to even take care of daily living tasks. I feel like doing absolutely nothing. That includes not even thinking of her. This is a very strange feeling, or perhaps strange complete lack of feeling.

The thought of actually doing something, even something normal and simple, seems gargantuan and insurmountable. The thought of putting out some garbage is exhausting. But the weird thing is even the idea of looking at memories of her feels exhausting right now. It’s almost as if my mind just wants to shut off and do absolutely nothing.

And through it all, the feeling of missing her remains. If she were to pop up alive and explain that this whole thing was some kind of government cover up and we were able to get back what we had before, I would suddenly immediately spring back. So I know it's still grief, it's still the empty feeling of her loss that is now a part of me for life. I feel like my body is basically self-preserving, it's shutting down some of the intense emotional feelings to preserve itself, but at the same time, this feels almost like a temporary respite, and that's actually pretty scary. I'm afraid for what feelings will come once my mind "rests".

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Yes, it's grief, it sounds like you are spent.  It affects us emotionally, physically, in every way.  In the beginning my grief was overwhelming, a shock, my mind reeled, there was no comfort, no relief.  Now it is an ever-persistent presence I've had to learn to live with and carry...I coexist with grief.  I thank God it's not as it was in the early months/years, I don't think we could handle that long term, but it's ever-present even though more copeable.  What we do with our grief does make a difference.  Earlier I posted an article on the grief process, I found it helpful to understand that.  Even without what this guy did to you, it's possible you might have experienced some ups and downs in your grief, like a roller coaster of emotion, most of us do.  I hope you can find yourself rejecting what he said, like punching him in the gut only metaphorically, not actually physically.  Rejecting what he's done to you.  I see no good intent coming from him.  He's been like a typhoon destroying what's in it's path.  You don't need that.  Slip back to the place where it's just you and her...you are getting to the place where you learn to interact with her differently than when she was alive, but your love for her continues...so does her love for you.

https://whatsyourgrief.com/changing-your-relationship-with-grief/

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God, I hate this feeling.

There are times that I can easily logically convince myself this is all in my head, nothing happened, her love was real, she never would have done this, etc. Then there are other times that I can't get it out of my head. 

It's not even about actual cheating anymore. It's more about "she may have actually been romantically interested in someone else; she may have been considering leaving the relationship". As I have said, a simple moment of weakness I could have dealt with, we could have dealt with together. I know this to be true. We'd gotten through some tough stuff together. But her falling in love with someone else? That is the scenario I can't stop ruminating over. Of course there is a lot of evidence against it, but we know that logic and emotions don't always get along and that people have been known to hide this sort of thing for a long time, especially if they feel they have something to gain...

In fact, I think it's partly because I actually did have an ex who broke up with me this way - by first cheating on me and then ending the relationship. It was an absolutely torturous experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. The blow to your self-confidence is doubled. My ex had continued to be "active" in our relationship until she dumped me, but I later found out that she had actually been planning to break up with me for some time and was already telling the other guy she loved him. She presented our relationship to him as "something I need to get rid of." I think my biggest fear here is: what if my GF was doing this too? 

It's not fair to compare my GF to my ex. In fact, this is one thing I took very seriously when she was alive. Trusting her was imperative to me, it was not an option. If I wanted the relationship with her to work, I would have to put aside my past hurt and focus on her. And I did just that. I trusted her to Hell and back. I know she knew it. But we know that trust partly comes from communication. I trusted her because she communicated well, at least to me it felt she did. I trusted her because she was often blunt about her feelings regarding situations. I trusted that had she had any wandering feelings, she'd have come to talk to me about it and we could address the problem together. 

There's also a couple of friends of hers who say they do know that her and this guy were "very close" and that "he was pursuing a relationship with her". Nobody says they actually dated, or slept together, but there is clearly a view of "he wanted her". Nobody offers any opinion on her side. She was young after all, and sometimes people who are that young may make silly decisions or not think things through... Him being after her is no surprise, but nobody knows if she was into him at all. Then being "very close" doesn't have to mean anything, but emotions don't work logically, I'm still stuck on "but it could have meant she liked him..."

I want to believe. I want to believe more than anything that this is all hogwash. I want to believe it. I tell myself it's not true. I repeat it like a mantra. I read the list I posted here. I let my friends tell me they don't believe it. I let her friends tell me they don't think it happened. But truth is, we can never know what was going on in her head. We can never know if she actually was having doubts about our relationship. We can never know if she may have been considering ending our relationship. We can never know if I'd have been with her for the long haul had she not passed. Of course, before this came out, I had believed that, and that was how I healed. But now, I'm stuck not knowing the truth anymore. The truth was always what I believed, and now that's been challenged. 

I'm sorry, my love. I'm sorry for not being able to fully ignore this and put it behind me. I'm so sorry. I wish you could hold me and tell me it's false and that you love me and that it's going to be OK. I wish you could comfort me like you did in life. I wish you could reassure me. I wish for so many things that I can never have again, until we meet again in another life. I miss you more than anything, I miss everything about you, and I just wish that this nightmare could end and I could go on and make you proud again. I'm sorry.

 

 

 

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Lots of people are close friends with opposite sex and the fact that he was pursuing her by no means indicates reciprocation on her part.  

Keep repeating the mantra.

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For the first time, I feel a tiny bit of clarity. Not much, I'm still hurting and struggling, but I'm seeing things just a tiny bit more clearly.

During the time that this other guy was in the voice chat, prior to his outburst, he was quite subdued. He was quiet, reserved, and pretty detached. He offered a random comment now and then, but for the most part he was not very engaged. This is very similar to the behavior I saw from him in person back when my GF introduced him to me. 

My GF was very bubbly, cheery, loved laughing and was very socially outgoing and friendly. I am similar. It is part of how we were drawn together, and she said so when we were early in our relationship. She said that she recognized our similar personalities and love of laughter and life and it is a big part of what attracted her to me. She also had pointed out at various points that there were other guys who had shown interest in her prior to me, but she wasn't interested because they  "weren't very fun to be around".

I know that my GF loved being around me. She chose to spend time around me. Near the end of her life, I was the single person she spent the most time in person with. Of course, sometimes she'd be texting or messaging on the computer while we were just casually hanging out, but she was never disengaged from our activities. Of course, sometimes she spent time away from me with others, but she chose to spend the most time with me. She asked of her own free will to come over and spend the evening together. She asked of her own free will to make love. She asked to make plans with me when she returned from her trip on her own. I even looked over the last couple weeks of our conversations, and the humor, laughter, bubbly personality is all there. I cannot see her being attracted towards someone with such a downer-like demeanor. Yes, it's entirely possible she gave off "signs" that led him to believe she was attracted, but her personality was quite infectious and I am sure many men fantasized about her. She was friendly towards everyone, even those she may not have liked that much. She had even told me (about other friends, not this guy specifically, but in general) that there are people she likes talking to, likes spending some time with, but couldn't date or be serious with because of their personalities. The personality of this guy that I have observed would fit one of those types of people that she argued she would never be interested in being seriously intimate with. I have to believe that he misinterpreted her friendship as attraction.

And as for the sex comment, men do lie about sex. I had some female friends tell me they've personally experienced a man who they were friends with lying about having had sex with them. In this case, my GF is not alive to defend herself, so for him, it would have been a "safe" attack, because he has nothing to lose. If she were alive, he could lose her friendship and any perceived chance he had with her, but with her gone, he has nothing to lose, so it was a no-risk situation for him. Sure, he may have lost a few friends in my circle, but maybe that was "worth it" to him, since he wasn't too close with us to begin with.

I'm starting to feel an emotional and physical exhaustion, being just worn out and wanting to rest. I don't know if this is because I'm finally resolving this in my head, or if it's just again being wiped out and this is all going to come crashing down again. But through it all, the strongest feeling I have today is missing her. I miss her so much. If you've ever had the experience of breaking up with someone, and then getting back together shortly thereafter because you both realize you missed each other (this did happen to me and my GF early in our relationship), then you'll understand half of this feeling. It's almost like we're "back together" but at the same time, we're not physically, because she's gone. And once again, all of the lost hopes and dreams, the lost opportunities, the lost life together is hitting me hard again. It's almost as if I "got her back" but also lost her all over again to death. It feels in some ways like she's died again, but it's more like she came back, even if for a brief moment, and then left again. It's almost as if she was giving me strength after all, as if she was trying to gently guide me, but now she's letting go again, going back to her "other worldly life" without me, and it hurts all over again.

I miss her so much. I am starting to be able to believe once again that our love was transcendent, that we would have made it through anything, including this. But it also reminds me of the loss, of how great of a love I did have, and how I wonder if I'll ever find anything even remotely approaching that level of love, trust and connection with another human being ever again.

I miss you, my love. I'm sorry for the pain. If you have been out there, trying to help me through, I appreciate it, I love you for it more than life itself, and I wish so badly that you could be here, so we could put this behind us together, so we could spend a lovely evening together and reminisce about our good times, and plan our future good times. I wish so much that you were still here. I still feel the unfairness of your death. The more I believe again in your goodness, the more I grieve your loss for you as well as my own. I miss you. Please promise me you'll wait for me. Promise me it'll all be worth it. I miss you. I love you. I always will.

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18 hours ago, KayC said:

Lots of people are close friends with opposite sex and the fact that he was pursuing her by no means indicates reciprocation on her part.  

Keep repeating the mantra.

The funny part of it is that I am extremely close with a friend who is of the opposite sex and we never have entertained the idea of a relationship. She in fact is one of the friends who has been helping me get through this as best she can - she did know my GF and spent time with her personally. I have never had romantic feelings towards my friend, and as far as I know, neither has she.

Of course, it can get a lot more complicated if someone in such a friendship does develop feelings. My GF was a very friendly person and even when her better judgement would have told her to stay away from someone, she often struggled to do so because she didn't like losing friends. What I could honestly see happening is this guy having an interest in her, her not necessarily reciprocating but still offering friendship/companionship/etc. and the guy going with the typical "I'm gonna grow on her, I'm gonna wear her down" attitude that so many rather thoughtless men have. I try to tell myself that even if she might have had a little bit of an inkling of a feeling towards him, I had the superior advantage of a six year relationship with her. A bond between us that built up over years. A level of comfort. The fact that we went through many life challenges together, and helped each other through so many things. Lust is temporary, love can last forever.

I also have to keep repeating to myself that the original sex comment could have been, no, most likely was jealousy or a cheap stab. I've known men personally who lie about sex. It is almost an ego thing for some guys, and it's pervasive enough that I've read about it in research texts and fact books on sex. Repeating to myself again: it was a low-risk activity for him, she can't defend herself or deny it, and it might have given him a sick satisfaction to know he was attacking the guy who actually had her as a girlfriend. His way of grieving his unfulfilled fantasy.

And maybe that's a part of what I feel, part of what just about anyone might feel if they discover someone is seriously trying to win over their partner - defensiveness, protectiveness and anger. I do want to lash out at the guy. "How dare you hit on my GF (when she was alive)? How dare you make such an outrageous, absurd claim about her? How dare you insult her memory and her faithfulness?" When I let myself feel some anger, I feel it towards him. Of course, I have no actual desire to try to reach out to him or anything, because I do know this would only cause more pain. But I have to imagine that anger towards him is even a good sign, it's my mind reaffirming my love with my GF and discrediting his statement.

I do still just want this to be over. I want to return to the life I was enjoying - never 100% happy, but certainly happy enough to be productive, cheerful and "bubbly" like my GF was. As I've said, I feel like she lives through me, the telling of our memories but also through the personality traits I've adopted from her. Others may plant flowers for her or donate money in her honor, but I live her legacy. Her true self, her true being, lives within me. Maybe the whole thing was because claiming she was unfaithful is an attack on her, and since she's part of me, it was an indirect attack on me and what we stood for.

A friend suggested writing a novel about our relationship. I'm strongly considering it. I also do have some unfinished music tracks (I have a hobby as a music studio engineer and I have some songs she was working on) that I could finish, maybe filling in myself, and I'd like to distribute them. I want her legacy, her true self, to be the story that gets told. I want her to be remembered for the person she was, not what jerks like this guy wish she was. I have some researching to do about how you handle writing about deceased people when you're indirectly talking about people who are still alive, and I'm not sure how "rights" work when it comes to music she recorded, but I do think these things may be very therapeutic and help me to release some of the grief in a positive way.

She deserves to have her true self known. The world deserves to know her as she truly was, at her best. Like I truly am trying to believe she was with me. Nothing is perfect, and even to the very end, we had our ups and downs, our moments of agony and confusion, even the occasional doubt, but we always found our way through. We dated for almost six years - you can't just forget someone that quickly, and there was no indication at all that she felt there was anything wrong enough with our relationship to want to end it, other than one single time where she was particularly angry (which we recovered from within a couple hours). I want to believe, I have to believe, I need to believe, that she loved me, she wanted me, she would have stayed with me, and we would have worked everything out together. That's what I want the world to believe, too.

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It seems that, despite the pain, that you are moving forward.  Healing is definitely a windy road.

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I agree, he's processing this and getting there.

I know someone 18 years my senior that has developed a crush on me, ugh.  We barely know each other and because I said hello and smiled he ran off with it...that does NOT make him a BF contender!  Just because someone builds a construct in their mind and runs with it, does not make it accurate.  Write off this guy as of no consequence and don't give him another thought.  What you and your person had was real, go with that.

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Writing here rather than actually looking up the guy and sending it...

 

To the guy who claimed to have been with my GF:

How dare you. What would possess you, what would give you the gall, to suggest something so heinous about my departed girlfriend? What kind of depraved, sick person do you have to be, to want to tarnish her memory. Do you have no concept of respect for the dead? 

I get it; you had a crush on her. A lot of other people did too. A lot of people even pursued her, but she never gave in. Because my girlfriend was faithful. She was devoted. She loved me. She might have been friends with you, she might have even done some very nice things for you, she may have given you her company or even helped you out of bad situations. That was one of the most beautiful things about her - she cared about people she was close to. But she was my girlfriend. We trusted each other. We were honest with each other. There are a lot of things she would have done for a friend, but be unfaithful to her boyfriend and cheat or break up with her boyfriend for someone else was not one of them. For you to even think of suggesting that she was unfaithful, to say something so tasteless and thoughtless, and then try to claim you didn't know we had been dating when you knew full well we were because you came to meet me in person... You really need to learn some compassion for others. You need to learn some respect.

My girlfriend is dead. It has been hard enough, it will continue to be hard enough for the rest of my life, to live without her. Even though you knew we were dating, what you probably didn't know was we had plans for 2017. We were to move in together. We were to travel together. We discussed plans like these right up until she died. I'm sorry man, but she was not yours. She was mine. I get you might be jealous of me, but you at least owe her some respect. You owe both her and I the respect to not spit such ugly words about her and our relationship. You owe her the respect of not painting her as a cheater. You owe all of us, those of us who were also close friends of her, and especially me, the respect to talk of her as she was, not how you wanted her to be.

Perhaps you wanted her to cheat on me. Perhaps you wanted her to break up with me and go to you. I gotta tell you dude, wishing those things is not only selfish but dangerous. If you seriously think my girlfriend is the type who would leave me for you, then you really must not think too highly of either her or yourself. The best partners we can have in life are those who are trustworthy, faithful, open, honest and true to themselves and their beliefs. Trolling around looking to steal someone else's partner is one of the lowest things you can do to a person, and I condemn you for even suggesting it. Lying about something like intimacy for no other reason than to hurt and shock others? Sorry dude, that's unforgivable. There is not a single person I've talked to who believes that you and her actually had anything, and in fact, most people know I was with her and don't believe your crazy story at all. Taking a cheap shot at a dead person who can't defend herself was seriously one of the lowest, most selfish things I've seen a person do. 

But you know what man, at the same time, I pity you. I feel bad that you not only felt the need to pursue someone who was already in a relationship, but I pity you for feeling the need to attack me now, almost three years after her death. I pity your ability to be so disrespectful to the dead just to further your own ego. I pity your complete indifference to how your words might slice deep into the hearts of others. For your sake, I hope you spend some serious time searching within yourself to discover why you felt the need to all but cut my heart open like an animal for slaughter. It was unnecessary, completely uncalled for, and only shows that you have some serious issues to work out within yourself.

Leave me alone. Leave her alone. Let her memories live through those who knew her best. Let her faithfulness to me stand for what it was. Don't you dare ever come to me again and try to give me more lines about having been with my girlfriend. Because your words no longer have any value to me. You use your words as weapons, to hurt and cause pain for others. I use my words for love, for happiness, to share the beautiful stories of my girl with wonderful people who love to hear them. I love her, I will always love her, and she will always love me. I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted, but I also didn't get what I wanted - a full long life with her. Life isn't fair. But you have no right to lash out and be so disrespectful just because you feel things were unfair. So please, leave me alone, and spend some time learning to respect yourself and others. I really hope, for your sake, that you do.

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It's still really, really hard.

I have felt a lot more resolved in the fact that my GF was not unfaithful, that this guy's claim was just trolling. There's a lot of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence to disprove his claim. The list I posted a few days ago has actually grown - among other things, I had bought us concert tickets for a concert in April of 2017 (she wouldn't have wanted me to pay the cost of that if she was planning to break up!), I recalled another moment where we were shopping and she saw a couch she liked and suggested we should furniture shop "together", and so on. I even was able to disprove some of the specifics of this guy's claim that I never actually wrote here (basically, he claimed that he experienced something when sleeping with her, that I realized was physically impossible due to the layout of her apartment!). I've reached a point where believing she was unfaithful requires also believing she was a vindictive, gold-digging, narcissistic and all-round bad person, which I absolutely cannot believe. She certainly had her faults, who doesn't, but I do believe that she was good at heart and wanted happiness for everyone. That may have actually been part of it - of course she wanted her friends to be happy, so maybe this guy interpreted her friendship and her attention as affection because he wanted her badly.

But through it all, I miss her terribly. You know that feeling when you almost break up with someone, and then you come back from the edge and you're so happy that you didn't break up? (I had that experience once with my GF, we did break up for a day or two but when we got back together it was blissful). In a way, that's what it feels like. It feels like I've pulled back from the edge and have reaffirmed my love for her. But at the same time, I also must live the reality that she is gone and can never be with me again in this life. So it's a bittersweet feeling. I know even more now than I did before how much I love her... and it makes me miss her all the more. In truth, I think I miss her more today even than when she first passed, because this situation was a test of our love, and passing the "test" normally would have a reward, but in this case, I just feel even more empty and lonely and sad.

I really, really, really do love her. I even accepted that had there been a one-night stand sort of situation, I would have forgiven her and worked it out with her. The only scenario I don't believe we'd have been able to easily recover from is if she was truly interested in breaking up with me for someone else, and all the evidence I've considered shows the opposite. My friends all believe she loved me. My family believes she loved me. And so do I. And that is why I miss her so much.

The only silver lining is that this grief is more "traditional", that I don't feel the pain as much (it's still there sometimes but it's lessening) of the idea of her being unfaithful, but rather I am just grieving the loss of someone I love so dearly. But it doesn't matter, it still hurts terribly and the grief will always be with me. I really would give anything for one more day with her in the flesh, to be able to tell her all the things I wish I could say to her face, to hear her reassure me, to even make love once more. I would give everything for that, and yet, this is one of those things that no amount of money can buy. It is still astonishing to me how we have come so, so, so far as a species and as a society and yet death is still the one universal experience that we all have, both our own as well as those we love, and it's the one thing that reminds us of our true futility. I'm back to where so many things feel empty, wishing I could share so much with her that I no longer can.

I miss you, my love. I told you I would miss you the last day I saw you. Little did I know that missing you would be for a lifetime rather than for a week. I still miss you three years later, and I will miss you until the day I die, until the day we can finally reunite in the next big adventure. I hope you'll be there waiting for me. Just like we did in life, I hope we'll be able to sit down and tell stories about all of our years apart, and I hope that the next world truly is one of happiness, eternal love and bliss. It will all have been worth it in the end for you. I miss you, I love you. Please remember me, keep me close to your spirit and I'll keep you close to mine. I want to make you proud. I want to make you say "wow" in your cute giggly voice like you always used to. I'll never forget you, ever. Please know that, and please wait for me. I love you.

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On 10/25/2019 at 10:00 AM, fzald said:

I really would give anything for one more day with her in the flesh, to be able to tell her all the things I wish I could say to her face, to hear her reassure me, to even make love once more. I would give everything for that, and yet, this is one of those things that no amount of money can buy. 

I'll never forget you, ever. Please know that, and please wait for me. I love you.

I miss my husband. I know its only been a month, but I know 3 years from now, i'd be just like you, still missing him. And that depresses me very much. I don't not want to miss my husband, I just don't want the constant pain. I am just so sad and heartbroken. People always ask "how are you doing?" I always want to reply "sad." Because that’s how i feel. All the time. I know its raw and fresh right now, but I know i am always going to have this hole in my chest. Its always going to be there. My life will never be the same. I am not saying its going to bad, but it will never be the same. I will never be the same. 

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My husband died in July. What I would give for 1 day with him.  Yes, it seems that this is a universal experience that truly rips your heart out. It still seems surreal.  It's scary that this grief is indefinite.  When people ask me how I'm going, the best I can say is ," I'm hanging in there." But truly, many times I'm not "hanging in there" very well. Sad doesn't even adequately cover it.  Missing him is a constant-- from dull ache to excruciating, debilitating pain. Yes. Our life will never be the same.  We will never be the same.

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It never stops.  We learn to live with it but it's ever present with us.

Right now I'm being stalked by an 85 year old at my senior site, he calls over and over and over again.  I've had my number for 42 years and do not want to have to change it, but I am so upset by it and it makes me miss George all the more as I know he would take care of it.  Nope, this never quits.

jttalways, I'm glad you're dealing with more ordinary grief than what you've had lately, that was hard.

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Thanks for your comments. Today's been a little rougher, some of my doubts are creeping back in, but I feel like I'm a little stronger at fighting them. But still, fighting them does take "energy" and leaves me feeling exhausted sometimes. 

The physical act of infidelity isn't even the problem. There are many couples out there who actually are OK with each other having extra-relationship encounters, but the key is that it's communicated and trust is maintained. But rather, it's the idea that, perhaps, she may have chosen to engage in it knowing it was wrong. That she would have willingly chosen to break one of the fundamental rules of trust in a relationship. I'll of course never know if this was the case, but that possibility alone is what riles me up and gets the doubts going.

But again, all of my friends keep repeating to me that they truly do believe to the bottom of their hearts that the guy lied, and that she never was unfaithful in the first place, and that she was truly genuine and real when she was suggesting things to improve our relationship. Sometimes I find myself reviewing text conversations in which this is quite evident, I see her referring to us as a couple, I see her talking about issues in our relationship and trying to think of solutions, I see her inviting me to spend time with her, I even see her being disappointed in those rare instances where I was unable to make time for her because of work or school. Whatever was going on with this other guy, she definitely seems to have been mentally and emotionally present in our relationship. 

I'm trying to find that new normal again, but I've been struggling again. This whole incident happened three weeks ago, and I feel like I've just been "winging it" for most of that time, struggling with daily life all over again. But the thing is, I'm not even sure what I'm grieving - her death all over again, or this perceived but likely untrue loss of trust and love in the relationship that once was. 

I try to imagine someone ending a relationship with someone (but not to death of course) and then discovering years later that the person had cheated on them during the relationship. I almost feel like this wouldn't be quite as damaging. Even if you never reached out to the person, it's definitely true that the emotional healing we do post-breakup is different than that post-death. Post-breakup, we try to disconnect the romantic bonds, but post-death, we do the opposite. So I would imagine this is why this whole idea is so painful. I can only imagine the pain someone goes through when someone dies and they discover without question or with firm evidence that their partner was unfaithful. And maybe that's even my fear - that someday someone is going to produce something (say a text chat conversation) that will prove she was unfaithful. That's why I decided to stop digging into social media or asking around too much, but maybe the idea that the information might be out there is why my doubts are flaring?

It's often discussed in science that it can be particularly hard or sometimes impossible to "prove a negative". In this case, there is really no proof that could be found that would 100% show that she was not unfaithful; the only thing that could happen is proof showing she indeed was. Anything I might find that reaffirms our relationship is a feel-good quick fix, but it still isn't definitive proof. It would be possible (however unlikely) to prove it did happen (e.g. a video) but all you can do to prove it didn't happen is show a lack of evidence supporting that it did. And I think what I am looking for is something that can't be found - proof that it didn't happen. Even if a friend of hers were to show me a conversation in which she clearly denies anything with the guy and even affirms our relationship, she could have lied. So again, you can't prove it didn't happen. That is what sucks...

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4 hours ago, fzald said:

I try to imagine someone ending a relationship with someone (but not to death of course) and then discovering years later that the person had cheated on them during the relationship. I almost feel like this wouldn't be quite as damaging

It is very damaging.  It happened to my daughter with her first BF of four years.  You really can't compare what did or didn't happen with someone else, everyone's relationship stands alone, I can't only tell you that for her it was very hurtful.  Comparisons tend to invalidate so I don't like them, but I do think when the person is dead and you can't talk to them about things or get answers from them, that definitely complicates things.  For myself, I've chosen to continue the same faith in George that our relationship was built on. He didn't cheat on me, but three weeks before he died he confessed to using Meth (his boss got him on it to get him to work harder/faster).  It was a stupid decision, very costly to us in every way, but I believe we would have worked through it, even as we'd already worked through so much...it helped that he came forward of his own volition and confessed to me and that he was getting treatment/rehab.  Three weeks was a drop in time to what we needed to get through this and of course there's always unanswered questions.  But I'm good now...it took me quite some time to process all this...alone.

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Each day feels like a step backwards. By the end of the day, I feel better, I even feel a little bit good, then I go to sleep, wake up and am back in the well again.

I feel like any progress I make on any given day is just wiped out by sleep.

Today I woke up and for some reason almost sent her a text to say good morning. I was probably a few seconds away from sending before reality once again crashed down. It's almost like, in sleep, I'm "with her" again, or at least my mind tries to pretend as such. When I wake up, I have to face reality all over again.

I know there's no timetable for grief, but this is almost three years down the road, and I felt like I was doing pretty well with my life and my progress all things considered.

Logically I know a few things: that it's extremely unlikely to impossible that she was interested in ending our relationship, that her having cheated is also extremely unlikely but even if it happened it did not necessarily mean it would have ended our relationship, and that nothing can change the past or bring her back to me. But as i've said, emotions and logic don't always play well together, and repeating mantras to myself works when I'm in a clearer head space but first waking up in the morning is still excruciating. When I grieved after her death, I welcomed sleep, I welcomed the respite from pain and suffering, but now it's sort of flipped - I almost dread sleep, because by the time a whole day has passed, and I've talked to friends (again, and again, and again) about it, and have again resolved myself to all of the above, I don't want to sleep, wake up and go through it again. 

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It sinks in eventually.  Eventually you stop forgetting they died only to be hit with it afresh all over again.  Eventually it's part of our everyday existence.  I'm not sure if that more or less depressing, but it just is.

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On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:13 PM, KayC said:

Right now I'm being stalked by an 85 year old at my senior site, he calls over and over and over again

Kay, I would tell this guy very directly that you do not want him calling you.  If you have already done that and he still won't stop, use the word harassment.  People like this aren't innocently bugging you.  They know exactly what they are doing and he's hoping to just wear you down.  You shouldn't have to change your number of 42 years just for this guy!  His feelings are no more important than yours.  I had a similar situation with a guy where I bartend on the weekends.  I'm 51 and he's 65.  That doesn't matter, he could be 30 for all I care.  He kept making little suggestions to me and we should do this and we should do that.  He knows my husband died just 12 months ago at the time.  Finally I just had to be very blunt with him and tell him I'm not interested and I still consider myself married.  He responded with, "Well your not," which was very hurtful but he got the point and has not bugged me since.  If there is any way you can block his number, I would. 

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19 minutes ago, Rhonda R said:

Kay, I would tell this guy very directly that you do not want him calling you.  If you have already done that and he still won't stop, use the word harassment.  People like this aren't innocently bugging you.  They know exactly what they are doing and he's hoping to just wear you down.  You shouldn't have to change your number of 42 years just for this guy!  His feelings are no more important than yours.  I had a similar situation with a guy where I bartend on the weekends.  I'm 51 and he's 65.  That doesn't matter, he could be 30 for all I care.  He kept making little suggestions to me and we should do this and we should do that.  He knows my husband died just 12 months ago at the time.  Finally I just had to be very blunt with him and tell him I'm not interested and I still consider myself married.  He responded with, "Well your not," which was very hurtful but he got the point and has not bugged me since.  If there is any way you can block his number, I would. 

Some people can be so heartless and just seek out single people with no tact or respect. If the guy knows your husband died, trying to get you to go out with him using the (honestly offensive) pick-up-artist strategy is disrespectful. If you break up with someone, or have a divorce, you may be able to "get over" that person, but the horrible truth for us is that we will never "get over" our loves who died. Even if I do have another relationship, first and foremost that person will need to understand that part of my heart, part of my love, will always belong to my GF who died. Nobody can replace her, nobody should replace her. Someone coming up to me trying to hit on me knowing that I lost my GF to death and showing little to no respect for that relationship is not going to get anywhere with me.

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dailystruggle

Kay, I agree.  Block him.  He's an insensitive jerk.  You don't have to waste your kind nature on people who you don't wish to. You are a very kind person, and this probably will not be the last time this happens.

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Good for you.  She's right, you are a very kind hearted and caring person.  That just means you're kind, not interested.  So glad you took care of you. 

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Fzald,  Waking up and going to sleep are my toughest times.  Morning routines we had together are excruciating .  It's just plain awful.

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1 hour ago, dailystruggle said:

Fzald,  Waking up and going to sleep are my toughest times.  Morning routines we had together are excruciating .  It's just plain awful.

Yes. Sometimes dreams are the worst. 2 days ago I had a dream the hospital called me to come to the ICU. I get there, walk into a room and my husband is sitting up in the bed. I run to him, bursting with relief and joy that he is alive. I hug and kiss him while repeating over and over “OMG you’re alive! You’re alive!” I woke up right after that. The feeling of joy and relief lingered for a moment before realization sunk in as the sleep wore off. It was horrible. It felt like someone stabbed me in the heart. 

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Jttalways, I'm so very sorry.  There are so many big and little moments that hit so hard.  I felt bombarded today in little way, not the big slam that you experienced.

 I went into a home store. Mistake.  Plaques, mugs that said so many of his pet names and phrase. Silly, smaltzy things:  Love you more than biscuits and gravy, Wifey (on a mug), Let's Cuddle ( one of the few men I've known who said that daily), Love You More.  I had to leave the store and felt that I had tiny little cuts all over me.  Again, I didn't get the tidal wave you did, just lots of little ones. 

I hate this.

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19 hours ago, Rhonda R said:

Good for you.  She's right, you are a very kind hearted and caring person.  That just means you're kind, not interested.  So glad you took care of you. 

I got a letter from him yesterday, which angers me, I just want him to STOP!  I will share it with the manager tomorrow.  He didn't sign it or use a return address, that's telling, shows he knows it could incriminate him...but then so does his handwriting.  Another thing I'm documenting.

12 hours ago, Jttalways said:

I had a dream the hospital called me to come to the ICU. I get there, walk into a room and my husband is sitting up in the bed. I run to him, bursting with relief and joy that he is alive. I hug and kiss him while repeating over and over “OMG you’re alive! You’re alive!”

I had one where he came back and I demanded to know where he'd been all this time!  Then I woke up and was mad at myself for wasting time being like that to him instead of just appreciating he was back!

I swear we can't win.  

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