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fzald

I discovered my departed GF might have been unfaithful...

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fzald

Hello everyone,

I wrote on here nearly three years ago (January 2017) about my girlfriend who passed away suddenly. I had one heck of a grieving journey and this forum was quite helpful. As I started to pull through, I immersed myself in work and personal pursuits and, slowly but surely, felt a normalcy return. There is never a day that goes by that I don't think of her, but I was able to focus on positive memories, and when I spoke of her with others I would tell the stories of our good times. By the summer of 2017, I had reached a point where I could go on and move forward, remembering her fondly and still missing her but not wallowing in grief and pain. I lived my life in her memory, with a positive thought of her always ready to help lighten my day.

Until today.

A friend of mine was online in a group conversation with some people from the local area. I'm not sure how the conversation went exactly, but my GF came up in conversation. One of the participants said he had known her and missed her quite a bit. My friend asked me if I knew who this person was, and it turns out I did know him. He was a friend of my GF's that I had met on at least two occasions. Thinking it might be a situation where I could share some happy memories, I joined into the conversation. I wish I hadn't.

It started innocently enough. Talking about my GF in a general sense, the positive traits of her, things everyone misses - her smile, her laughter, sense of humor. Then he blurts out "Man, this is awkward, but I really miss her in bed."

My heart skips a beat. "...Excuse me?" I ask. "Yeah, she was one of the best I've ever had. I was kinda inexperienced at that time but still wow. I know you probably didn't need to know that but, you know." I'm now realizing something is very wrong. I ask "You slept with her?" He says "Well yeah, I mean we were dating for a couple months when she died." Huge moment of silence.

My friend's first thought is that maybe this is some sort of joke. Not knowing the other guy too well, he immediately jumped to "he's making it up dude, for all we know he was just jealous of you and her and is trying to f--k with you." But then the other guy started giving a few details that might just prove he isn't making it up. For one thing, he named a specific date on which he had visited with my GF and recounted a date night - where they ate, what movie, the fact that they slept together that night, etc. Needing to know, I checked my text message log for that day (I still have every text). She indeed told me she was "seeing her friend" that night. Then the next morning, staring me in the face, is a question that all but proves she was unfaithful - a question, innocent enough, that without context seems like fun conversation banter, but given this context, changes everything. 

We used to love to posit situations to each other (a "What would you do?" sort of game). Often those situations were absurd and exaggerated, but every so often we'd pose a real-life scenario as such a situation, just as a discussion opener. On the morning of the day exactly following the day the other guy claims to have been with her, she asked me a rather detailed scenario involving a girl in a new relationship having sex with the guy and he was having some trouble with performance and such. It was quite detailed, but she presented it as a hypothetical scenario as we often did for fun. I responded with something along the lines of "if someone isn't satisfying someone else, they need to communicate better" and so on. But the problem is her scenario had quite a few details that eerily corroborate with the other guy's story. "Say that the girl has only been with the guy for a month or so but they are so attracted to each other that they just can't wait to get into bed." And so on. 

I have no definitive proof of infidelity. Everything I'm looking at is circumstantial evidence, but things are matching up way too closely. The "only been together for a month" at the time of this "date" coincides roughly with when my GF started spending time with this "friend". There being "performance problems" coincides with him saying he was inexperienced. The fact that she presented such a detailed scenario exactly the morning after this guy claims to have been with her. I know I'm probably reading way into things, but I can't shake the distinct possibility she was being unfaithful right in front of my face and my trust and love for her blinded me to any warning signs.

My friend asked the guy right out "Come on dude, are you making this up? F and her were together for like seven years." He swears up and down he's not making it up, that they were in a new relationship and that he had no idea there was a relationship between her and I. 

I am starting to feel the spiral of grief all over again, but for a new reason. I have held with me an image of her, the positive things I loved about her, and I've kept those thoughts close to me throughout the years. Now I feel like even the positive memory I have of her is shattered, that everything I believed might have been a lie or might have been deceitful, I find myself questioning if there were other infidelities, and of course I can't get this image out of my head of her with the guy doing the deed. I start thinking of the times she told me she was going to visit her "friend" and now imagine that there was a lot more going on. Since I can never actually know for sure, this is even more complex than infidelity in real life. I will live the rest of my life wondering just how faithful she was to me. In this scenario, one person is the bad guy - either this other guy (he could be lying) or my GF. I'll never know which one is the dishonest one. 

I'm feeling the downward plummet again, and this time I'm really not sure what to do. I can't grab on to her memories for support as firmly as I used to. For the first time since she passed, I feel truly alone and separate from her. 

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KeirKieran

I just went to the reply you made to your old post.  I'm new here so I didn't know your history, but... this is a real hit to the gut.

You have your feelings and the reassurances of friends on one hand. And you have this toolbag's boasting and her random questions on the other. 

To be fair, you're right, the occurrence of her questions looks bad, and you have no way to known for sure, ever, but... this guy's story feels wrong.

Who the hell blurts that out talking about a dead girl? And how does he not know you and her were dating? You had met, he knew you both. Someone's significant others tend to come up in conversation when someone dies (so how did he not hear about you?) I mean, it's possible but... it feels hinky. It really feels hinky. Everything about his "Man, this is awkward," lead up sounds like how a bad liar tries to sound casual.

I'm not a great writer or (a published writer) but I do write and it sounds like a very pat line of a bad liar.

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Gail 8588

Fzald,

I can't even imagine how terrible this assertion must feel.  I think there is no way to really verify whether it is true, and it is not worth the time, trouble and heartache to try. 

If you are able, I recommend you focus on what you know is true, that she did love you. Remember those times when you had a great time together, or worked together to accomplish something.

You know in your heart that her affection for you was real.

Peace,

Gail

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fzald
11 hours ago, KeirKieran said:

I just went to the reply you made to your old post.  I'm new here so I didn't know your history, but... this is a real hit to the gut.

You have your feelings and the reassurances of friends on one hand. And you have this toolbag's boasting and her random questions on the other. 

To be fair, you're right, the occurrence of her questions looks bad, and you have no way to known for sure, ever, but... this guy's story feels wrong.

Who the hell blurts that out talking about a dead girl? And how does he not know you and her were dating? You had met, he knew you both. Someone's significant others tend to come up in conversation when someone dies (so how did he not hear about you?) I mean, it's possible but... it feels hinky. It really feels hinky. Everything about his "Man, this is awkward," lead up sounds like how a bad liar tries to sound casual.

I'm not a great writer or (a published writer) but I do write and it sounds like a very pat line of a bad liar.

My friends and family basically agree with this too. We kind of came up with a list of all the reasons it's probably not true:

* Nobody we've talked to was aware of a relationship between my GF and this guy. There are people who knew that this guy definitely had a serious crush on my GF, but I actually knew that even at the time I met him and I'd had a gentle convo with my GF about it, which she didn't take any offense to (we tended to be each other's spot-checkers in situations like this, just in case somehow we were oblivious to someone else's less-than-overt actions)

* Everyone DOES know her and I were together, and I had a ton of support getting through my grief from many people who were close with her.

* At least one person has said this guy has been known for starting drama and exaggerating things. I do know this guy and my GF were friends, and that they did spend time together, but the idea of them sleeping together is just too far out there.

* This guy has many other social awkwardnesses. I mean, for one, blurting out such a sensitive comment is one. And we'd been talking about my GF for quite a bit before that happened, and there's no way he could have been oblivious to the fact that I was with her, since obviously I spoke of her as my GF. If I were in his position and something like this happened, I'd have been far more tactful in how I presented it. I might have even asked to have a private conversation and gently reveal and discuss the situation. Certainly wouldn't blurt out something like that amongst a group of mine and her friends.

* The most telling reason, there were no signs from my GF during this time that would have indicated anything. As I've said, we worked together, and thus we spent lots of time together during the day, but even so she still continued to spend time with me on most evenings, she would bring up things she wanted to do together with me, we were making love, etc. It would seem that if you were being unfaithful, you would 1) probably not continue sleeping with your partner, 2) would show some signs of withdrawing from your partner, and 3) would definitely not introduce your partner to the guy you're cheating with, even if you were lying to him about your relationship.

The only piece of evidence that is suspect is her asking those detailed questions about sex in new relationships, and it is a little eerie that she asked that the morning after this guy asserts he slept with her, but it still doesn't prove anything. Again, even if you were presenting it as a hypothetical scenario, I can't imagine you would ask your partner about what you should do about the guy you're cheating with. (I don't know if I actually stated the entire scenario, but she actually presented the scenario of a new relationship involving sex, where one of the partners is unwilling to make effort to please the other, and whether I feel that is a good reason to be concerned and/or to break up the relationship. My response to her was that it depends on why the person isn't pleasing the other - if it's something, say, physical, you need to learn to adjust, but if it's clearly "I don't care about your pleasure" then you may definitely need to consider whether it's a good person to be with since if they can't show concern for your sexual pleasure, you could ask in what other ways they may not show concern for you.)

The worst part of all of this is that this is a question that can never be answered. To be fair, even if photographic evidence existed, there are all sorts of things that could have been at play - date rape for example. She can't defend the situation since she's gone. I'm now left to deal with processing and somehow reconciling all of this into my grief. The worst part is that I'm finding myself struggling to hang on to the memories of love and positive experiences that have carried me through my grief and brought me to where I am now. Every single person I've talked to about it says that they cannot believe that there is any possible way my GF didn't love me or didn't want to be with me, and that if anything did happen, the worst case is that it was a fling, she was caught off guard and perhaps wasn't mature enough (she was only 22 after all) to handle it properly, but regardless everyone still feels that she did see me as her true partner and lover.

I have to try so hard to hang on to that fact. I wonder if it's simply that this comment has brought to life an unspoken fear I've had in relationships (that of infidelity, because I'd been cheated on by two GFs prior to her). Every so often I'd have a bad dream or a nightmare in which my GF cheated on me, but then I'd wake up, realize it was a dream, and cling to a happy memory of our love and our time together. Now I'm having those same nightmares, but finding and grasping to that memory of love is so much harder, because now the seed has been planted that there is even the remotest of possibilities that there was dishonesty. And the thing is, that was ALWAYS a possibility, but it was something I never entertained. Why is it that one a-hole's comment can open such a can of worms and complicate grief so much further? ...

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Jttalways

Your situation reminds me of the movie The Descendants starring George Clooney. My husband passed away 2 weeks ago today. We were together for almost 17 years. Believe me, we had our fair share of bad times and questions of infidelity. In fact, our marriage was going thru a rough time right before my husband was diagnosed with leukemia. Once I found out my husband had cancer, I threw all the past BS bad sh*t out the window. Unless this guy produces a video of himself with your GF, looking sober and happy, you will never know the truth. IMHO, its a waste of time to dwell on this. Down the road, if someone were to tell me that my husband cheated on me, yeah i'd feel devastated, but at the same time it wouldn't change how much i love/loved my husband. I would still remember the good times we shared together. I believe that when we die, our death, pays for our sins. So any past transgressions my husband may have done against me, i forgive him. I know its devastating to think your loved one cheated on you, but ask yourself, if ur GF did cheat on you, and you had found out when she was alive, would you have broken up? Would you have forgiven her? And would you have still felt the same pain and grief after she passed? I think you would. I hope these words have helped you somewhat. Wishing you the best.

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fzald
30 minutes ago, Jttalways said:

Your situation reminds me of the movie The Descendants starring George Clooney. My husband passed away 2 weeks ago today. We were together for almost 17 years. Believe me, we had our fair share of bad times and questions of infidelity. In fact, our marriage was going thru a rough time right before my husband was diagnosed with leukemia. Once I found out my husband had cancer, I threw all the past BS bad sh*t out the window. Unless this guy produces a video of himself with your GF, looking sober and happy, you will never know the truth. IMHO, its a waste of time to dwell on this. Down the road, if someone were to tell me that my husband cheated on me, yeah i'd feel devastated, but at the same time it wouldn't change how much i love/loved my husband. I would still remember the good times we shared together. I believe that when we die, our death, pays for our sins. So any past transgressions my husband may have done against me, i forgive him. I know its devastating to think your loved one cheated on you, but ask yourself, if ur GF did cheat on you, and you had found out when she was alive, would you have broken up? Would you have forgiven her? And would you have still felt the same pain and grief after she passed? I think you would. I hope these words have helped you somewhat. Wishing you the best.

Would I have forgiven her if it happened and she was still alive? That would have to depend on how she handled it. If she approached me, came clean and there was obvious remorse or guilt, I probably would. I would have said there needs to be a long discussion about things, but I would definitely have commended her for coming forward and being willing to talk, knowing how hard that has to be for someone, and I would have found it in me to forgive, since I loved her so much. In fact I would have seen it as an opportunity for us to evaluate our relationship and figure out what caused her to feel the need to be unfaithful. I often read that cheating, if you can forgive and if it was an honest mistake, can actually bring people closer together in a weird way, since it forces you to actually figure out your relationship issues and address them.

But if she were more dismissive, victim-blaming, no remorse, being cold towards me, etc. then no, I couldn't.

Of course, with her gone, we will never know which of those two scenarios would have played out, assuming it's true at all.

I do know that there can never be a definitive answer to this. My feelings still tell me that she loved me deeply. My logic says it's quite unlikely this story has any credibility. But my fears are still there. It's more that I am scared that my own trust in her was misplaced, and that will of course damage my trust going forward. Blindly trusting someone is never easy, and being able to do it shows a level of dedication and connection with that person, and even the possibility that such trust was violated is just devastating...

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foreverhis
On 10/7/2019 at 6:32 AM, fzald said:

Then he blurts out "Man, this is awkward, but I really miss her in bed."

My heart skips a beat. "...Excuse me?" I ask. "Yeah, she was one of the best I've ever had. I was kinda inexperienced at that time but still wow. I know you probably didn't need to know that but, you know." I'm now realizing something is very wrong. I ask "You slept with her?" He says "Well yeah, I mean we were dating for a couple months when she died."

This really struck me as, well, odd. 

Why did he feel the need to blurt out something like that knowing it would hurt you?  That is not  the kind of thing a normal person would bring up ever.  Yeah, gee you didn't need to know that, but hey, I'm going to stab you in the back anyway.  Who does that?

Also, in 3 years he went from "kinda inexperienced" to her being "one of the best I've ever had" (as if she was just another notch on the bedpost, so to speak).  There's a cold calculation to his statements that makes me wonder if he is telling the truth at all.

He claims they were dating for a couple of months when she died.  How much time did they actually spend together that they could have been a dating couple?  The whole thing makes no sense to me.  Of course I realize people can be really good at hiding things, but still it's hard for me to get a handle on it.

Regardless of whether it's true, I am sorry this man has brought you so much pain and made you ask yourself so many painful questions.

 

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fzald
18 minutes ago, foreverhis said:

This really struck me as, well, odd. 

Why did he feel the need to blurt out something like that knowing it would hurt you?  That is not  the kind of thing a normal person would bring up ever.  Yeah, gee you didn't need to know that, but hey, I'm going to stab you in the back anyway.  Who does that?

Also, in 3 years he went from "kinda inexperienced" to her being "one of the best I've ever had" (as if she was just another notch on the bedpost, so to speak).  There's a cold calculation to his statements that makes me wonder if he is telling the truth at all.

He claims they were dating for a couple of months when she died.  How much time did they actually spend together that they could have been a dating couple?  The whole thing makes no sense to me.  Of course I realize people can be really good at hiding things, but still it's hard for me to get a handle on it.

Regardless of whether it's true, I am sorry this man has brought you so much pain and made you ask yourself so many painful questions.

 

I do know they were friends for quite some time, maybe 9 months or so prior to her dying, and I do know she spent some time with him, but the truth is she spent far more time with me.

In the midst of the situation, it's too easy for me to find "red flags", but most of those red flags are most likely nothing or are just me reading too deeply into the situation. I do know that she would sometimes say she had "a friend over" or that she would say to me "can we do X tomorrow? I'm busy tonight with something" without giving much detail, but then again I didn't push for much. I also do know she visited the city this guy lives in at least twice from December to her death, but she did have other friends in that place as well.

The point is, there are many elements that can either be bad or meaningless. There's things that happened that could be indicative of unfaithfulness, but that's only if you choose to interpret them as such - there's no hard evidence whatsoever. There's nothing that definitely says "my GF had a sexual relationship with this guy" other than his word. And if I choose to interpret her actions positively, it's easy to find things that show she wasn't being unfaithful and was truly still into me and loved me.

I just wish I had a way to stop questioning. I feel like I can no longer just assume the best of her as I always have. I can no longer remember her as one of the most honest, faithful and up-front people I've ever known. The fact that I can't even know for sure if my trust was violated is torture. In a way, having definitive proof would almost be a little easier, because then I would know for sure what I'm up against emotionally, but I just don't know. Nobody knows other than her and him, and she's gone and he's demonstrated he's not necessarily a very reliable source. Basically, I have only my own thoughts to keep me company, and even if I choose to make the choice consciously to ignore it and remember her the way I want to, I can't seem to shake this off. I wish I could. I don't know how to, and I fear it will be even harder than the grief itself, because at least with that, I knew exactly what I was up against.

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Jttalways

Yes, i remember that raw feeling of pain and heartbreak the 1st time your trust has been violated by the one you love. In my experience, the pain and hurt wears off in time. Plus, you have no way in knowing if your trust was violated by your GF. So i say ride this out, trust your instinct, go with the emotions. If you feel in your heart that your GF didnt cheat on you, then believe that. Its going to hurt right now because its fresh and new, but in time you may realize that you do not believe any of it, or that it doesnt matter or has very little significance on the love you shared. Also, I would try to not let this hinder any future relationships you may have. There are good and honest people out there and I'm sure this guy is full of it and that your GF was 1 of them. 

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fzald

The more I think about it, the more I realize - the issue with me isn't even really that there may have been a physical act of sex. It's more that there may have been an emotional relationship going on behind my back. It's that it is possible, however remote, that she actually was feeling love for another man.

Her actions don't really reflect this during the given time period. Like I said, she was spending more time with me than anyone. She was actively asking to do things together. There was lovemaking.

The more logical part of me wants to say "nobody, especially a relatively inexperienced younger person, is THAT good at hiding something so significant... if you truly feel something for someone else, there's signs that come through that are basically impossible to completely hide."

The fear in me says "But what if she could? What if she was trying to do polyamory without being upfront about it? What if she was just incapable of committing?"

I feel like I'm doing a cult-like chanting mantra to myself now. Every time I think of her possibly liking and being with someone else, sexually or not, I start forcing myself to think about the logic I mentioned. I force myself to try to remember a good time. But it still simmers underneath everything.

One thing I feel like I figured out though is, if someone had come to me and simply said they were dating my GF, even if there was nothing about sex said, I'd still feel this way. What I mean is that the part that hurts me, and the part that makes me feel betrayed, is the possibility that she was emotionally with someone else. A physical completely non-emotional sexual encounter? I could forgive that a lot more easily. But an honest "dating someone else" even if no sex? It's actually worse for me than just a random one-time sexual encounter.

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KayC
15 hours ago, Gail 8588 said:

Fzald,

I can't even imagine how terrible this assertion must feel.  I think there is no way to really verify whether it is true, and it is not worth the time, trouble and heartache to try. 

If you are able, I recommend you focus on what you know is true, that she did love you. Remember those times when you had a great time together, or worked together to accomplish something.

You know in your heart that her affection for you was real.

Peace,

Gail

Great advice!

I replied in your other thread already...

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fzald

I've spent most of the evening sitting here, thinking about the situation, trying to tear into it from every possible angle, and also babbling my face off to a few of my friends on the phone. There's one conclusion I do feel that I've come to. Part of me is worried this is temporary and that I'll be just as sad tomorrow, but right now, I'm trying to grasp and hold to the feelings I have right now.

I started remembering the earlier parts of our relationship - the parts during which there is absolutely no question about her love for me. I sort of replayed the highlights of our relationship, both the good and the bad, as if it were a movie. And through it all, I realized something. I rediscovered the deep, intense, soul-filling feeling of love I had and still have for her. It's the first time I've cried for her in a while, bittersweet tears of memories and happiness and love. And I realized that love for her is not weaker or distant, in fact it's as strong as ever, and it was right there all along.

And I realized and could admit to myself that even if I had discovered infidelity while she was alive, as long as she was willing to stop the infidelity and work on our relationship together, I would have been able to, and would have chosen, to forgive and rebuild. I have been reminded just how deeply I loved and love her, and how "we'll get through anything together" doesn't necessarily have to stop when someone dies. She had a great spirit and her bubbly, happy demeanor was infectious and contagious, but underneath all of her wonderful traits is a human being, capable of making mistakes just like any other one. I've read many stories about people who had an affair and then were able to use the realization of the love they still had for the other to actually strengthen and rebuild the relationship to be even better. This is what I would have wanted for us. 

And of course, we still have strong reason to believe it isn't even true - of course, that's all the better, because either way, I feel the love of her coarsing through me tonight, I feel bittersweetly sad and happy at the same time, but what I don't feel right now is anger or fear. I don't feel disgust at thinking that she might have been unfaithful. And tonight, I am missing her deeply, on a level I haven't really felt since 2017 when she passed. The pain I feel is because she's not here to fix it with me, for us to fix it together. And through it all, I wish so strongly, as strong as ever, that I could just hold her and tell her it's OK and that whatever it is, we'll fix it together. I wish I could show her the love that I still hold for her, and that even if it meant having to forgive something that borders on unforgivable, the love that carried us through the relationship and through some of the worst times and the best times could just maybe have gotten us through this too.

I'll never know. I'll never know if she did it or not. I'll never know if she had done it if she would have wanted to work it out. But I feel once again the love for her that pulled me through the worst of times with her both in life and death. And I want to keep that close so that our love can get us through even this trying time, even though she can't be here to do it together.

I'll probably need to refer back to my own post, because I am afraid of a roller coaster where I fall back down and get depressed or feel that disgust and anger again. But right now, I've finally found a bit of a calm. I've finally made a decision to let love guide. I just hope I can keep the demons at bay.

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Gail 8588

So glad you have found some peace.  

 

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fzald

I wish I could kill the demons. I wish I could stop that over-analytical stuff - "what if other friends she spent time with might have been affairs?" or "what if she wasn't being genuine about (insert thing here)?"

Those are the worst parts of my thoughts. My love for her is strong, but this is a battleground right now, not a peaceful stream. I loved her, I love her, and I really want to believe she did too. 

I had a great moment of peace a bit ago, but the demons were just on the sidelines preparing their next assault on the battleground. When the feelings hit I try to remind myself of the love, I try to tell myself to stop thinking about unproven possibilities that have no evidence at all (like other friends possibly being affairs). I try to tell myself that her love for me was real, was genuine, and that up to the end, regardless of what happened, she loved me. The demons are trying very hard to break me down. I actually feel physical stress at fighting the demons in my head. I'm going to go to sleep tonight, and I worry I'll wake up with the demons in full force. It actually takes a lot out of me, my performance with work and school is going to suffer and I'm afraid of it. 

And then I say "This is all because some jerk face had to spit out a completely inappropriate and unnecessary comment. Even if it was true, it would have been better left unsaid." I try to direct the anger at him mentally. I try to send the demons there. But the demons are also strong. They want to win, they want to do evil bad things and destroy good things. My GF could very well have had her own demons that wanted to destroy good things, but with two forces on the battlefield against them, we could have fought a harder battle. I have to fight this battle alone. And it sucks.

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foreverhis
11 hours ago, fzald said:

I also do know she visited the city this guy lives in at least twice from December to her death, but she did have other friends in that place as well.

Hm.  So he didn't even live in the same city you two did?  Honestly, that makes me doubt his word even more.  They were "dating for 3 months"?  How?  They didn't even live in the same place.  Sure, there's the whole "long distance relationship" possibility, but it seems strange.

No matter what, the damage is done and you are doubting her and yourself and what you had together.  I'm sorry you are going through this and that it has brought your grief back to the forefront.

1 hour ago, fzald said:

I'll never know. I'll never know if she did it or not. I'll never know if she had done it if she would have wanted to work it out. But I feel once again the love for her that pulled me through the worst of times with her both in life and death. And I want to keep that close so that our love can get us through even this trying time, even though she can't be here to do it together.

That is a very healthy way to look at it.  You know you loved each other.  Maybe focusing on that will bring you back to a better place emotionally.  From what you've written, it sounds as if she would have wanted you to be together.  I think your reasoning about working it out even if she had messed up makes a great deal of sense.  Let's say she did cheat on you, but came clean and asked your forgiveness.  Not everyone has a love deep enough to say, "Yes, let's figure out where things have gone wrong and work on the future."  Of course she would have had to earn back your trust, but that would have been part of the growth and healing needed in order for you two to be a strong and loving couple.

 

Edited by foreverhis

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Rhonda R

I'm so sorry this happened to you.  It would be devastating.  How convenient for him and incredibly cruel to accuse her of something she can in no way defend herself from.  How do you know the situation isn't so detailed because he saw her text message to you?  How do you know he didn't pose the question to her about someone else and she ran it by you to get your opinion?  If they were dating when she died, I would think he would have expected to be more involved in the funeral.  Did he even show up?  If he did, he definitely knew you were dating so he's a liar. You don't blurt that out about your girlfriend on social media after she dies, if it's your GF, it's assumed you miss that about them and there is no need to tell that to anyone.  It's also not "awkward" to miss that about someone if you were in a loving and committed relationship.   What's disgusting is what he is trying to do to your relationship with her.  What's disgusting is that he would try to make you doubt her.  I know who I would believe.  Yes, I would have moments of did she because this other guy put it in your head and you can't ask her.  But, then I would calmly remind myself of all this other stuff.  You knew her better than anyone.  If you feel like you have to know the truth.  Are you still in touch with her best friend?  Tell her what this guy said.  Her reaction will tell you everything you need to know.  But, before you do any of that, you need to ask yourself if you really want to know and if it really matters now. 

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KayC

You have very good insight and a way of really analyzing it, I have no doubt you'll get through this with your love intact.  My relationship with George began on faith in each other and it is the continuation of that faith in him and all that we had that sees me through this, that and continuing the hope of being with him again.

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fzald
1 hour ago, Rhonda R said:

If they were dating when she died, I would think he would have expected to be more involved in the funeral.  Did he even show up?  If he did, he definitely knew you were dating so he's a liar.

He did say during this conversation (before the bombshell) that he had attended the funeral and he did know enough about it that I believe he was there. There was actually little socializing when I was there, I mean people were talking but the majority of people came and went without saying much. I don't recall seeing him there myself, so it's possible he didn't see me there. 

1 hour ago, Rhonda R said:

You don't blurt that out about your girlfriend on social media after she dies, if it's your GF, it's assumed you miss that about them and there is no need to tell that to anyone.

This is what my friends reiterate to me - that even if it is true, there is no reason to say something like this. Since we were all having a conversation about her, and it was clear and evident that I was her BF, my friends believe that the only motive behind this sort of thing could be malice, because as I said, even if it's true, some things are better left unsaid after someone dies and that would have been one of them. 

1 hour ago, Rhonda R said:

You knew her better than anyone.

I do want so badly to believe this. I do feel like I did. The doubts, the demons, are the hard part, the doubt has been cast that perhaps I didn't know her as well as I thought I did. That's the struggle. I loved and love her so deeply that I trusted her more than anyone else, and if she lied to me in any way I would have believed it. She did tell me about "hanging out" with this particular guy, so logic would say that the average person being unfaithful would definitely stay far away from even mentioning anything about the other guy, but at the same time, she knew how much I trusted her, and it'd be even worse to think that perhaps she took advantage of that trust in such a way..

1 hour ago, Rhonda R said:

If you feel like you have to know the truth.  Are you still in touch with her best friend?  Tell her what this guy said.  Her reaction will tell you everything you need to know. 

Actually, during the conversation in which this happened, two people who were good friends of hers were present. Both of them told me that they have no knowledge of this guy and her having any sort of relationship. But, they added, "she didn't always talk about relationships much, so we can't 100% say for sure she wasn't hiding from ALL of us..." In fact, I'm not the only one suffering from this. The friends who were there are also reeling and struggling. None of us want to believe this accusation, but for all of us now the doubt has been cast. It's just particularly bad for me, having been her actual boyfriend. Restless nights and painful days are again the norm. It's like I'm grieving all over again. 

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fzald

so, we did hear from another friend that knew both my GF and the other guy. He said he definitely wondered if there might have been something going on between them, but he only ever heard the guy's side since he'd lost touch with my GF and had not talked to her as regularly.

This is exactly what he said: "I don't know if there was ever anything serious between them. All I know is that there was some attraction on his end. The way he talked about her led me to believe there could possibly be something between them, but he never actually said they were dating or sleeping together."

I suppose all this does is leave us exactly where we were - we knew for a fact that this guy had a thing for her, I even noticed it when I met him when she was alive. So if all he can confirm is that the guy liked her, that means nothing basically. We basically still have no direct testimony from anyone on her side that claims that this jerk's story is true.

I want to make a promise not to dig any deeper. Like the line in Revenge of the Sith: "If (into the security recordings) you go, only pain will you find." The thing is, it's like the Pandora's Box that you know you shouldn't open but it's sitting right there. There are other friends I could contact and ask. But I do feel that there's nothing to gain except pain. There are already many people who fully acknowledge that her and I were together and many who said they could see her affection towards me. I just need to resist the temptation to try to dig further. And to be honest, nothing can change anything at this point. Whether she did or didn't, she's gone and that can't change as much as I wish it could. If she were alive and we were together and I found this out, I think it would be absolutely imperative to find out the absolute truth, but I have to imagine that in this scenario there's nothing that can be done to make it better, it can only get worse if I dig further.

We are so often taught that burying your head in the sand and avoiding things is unhealthy, but perhaps it's actually not only healthy but necessary in certain cases - like this one.

And I need to find a way to hold on to the love, the feeling I had last night, that feeling of soul-filling love for her that I know is still there, that feeling that showed me that I could forgive her if I needed to. But sometimes it slips away, like this morning. And all I feel is despair. It brings back all the grief I felt before, the longing for her to be here, and trying so hard to make the happy memories I have of her happy again. I'm struggling to get through the day, I'm in a state of grief I hoped to stay away from for a long time. Issues like this complicate grief so much more-I had a previous breakup due to her cheating that left me grieving and devastated for many months, and I am now fearing that I'm going to be in this same perpetual state of grief for another several months...

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Gail 8588

You know from your experiences with her that she was a good person and that she loved you.  You also know that this guy is a jerk for having said any of this.  A decent person would not have done this to you. 

So between a good person who  loved you and a certified jerk, I'd believe the good person. 

Try your best to write this guy off as a liar who just wanted to make himself important.  He is not important at all.

Good luck.

Gail

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fzald
1 hour ago, Gail 8588 said:

You know from your experiences with her that she was a good person and that she loved you.  You also know that this guy is a jerk for having said any of this.  A decent person would not have done this to you. 

So between a good person who  loved you and a certified jerk, I'd believe the good person. 

Try your best to write this guy off as a liar who just wanted to make himself important.  He is not important at all.

Good luck.

Gail

I believe that she was good to me and loved me. I want to believe the other guy was just screwing around.

The truth is we never really know what's going on in other people's minds. Is it possible she outright lied to the other guy and told him she was single, and that I was just "a friend"? Sure. That's the scary part. Not being able to know for sure if maybe the other guy isn't the jerk and maybe she was.

Thing is, it's the same in life. If she were alive today and I was still with her, and I heard this information, I'd be able to talk to her and confront her, and gauge a reaction. Without her, I can only choose what I want to believe. This means that sadly, the true test of my trust in her is happening now, nearly three years after her passing. This truly is a "blind trust" - there is no way I can ask her and watch her reactions. Anything that comes out today is hearsay and could have alterior motives. There were a group of people who disapproved of our relationship, and any one of those people might say bad things just to further what they see as their memory of her.

I have to keep reminding myself that her behavior near the end was not consistent with someone who was cheating. Yes she did go visit friends, including this particular friend, from time to time. But she told me about him, would tell me things he said and ask my thoughts, etc. She actively sought out time with me. She slept with me. She even would contact my mom for advice that, in her own words, "I can't ask my own mom because she won't understand."

I just wish this had never happened. I just wish that this guy hadn't had the balls to be such a jerk. I just wish that the doubt had never been planted in my mind, because for the past nearly 3 years I held my vision of her close to my heart, and was able to explain away anything that seemed out of place in a minor sense. Those few words from the other guy though opened up a chasm of questions and uncertainties. It's almost as if a worst fear was brought out into the open.

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KeirKieran

There's no sugar coating this: this situation is awful. Just take your time and let yourself work through this new round of your mourning. 

You're shook and you have every right to be. I still say it feels fake, but you're right, there's never going to be full answer. Just focus on your love for her and let the rest process as it will.

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fzald

Well I'm finding a calm again tonight. Talking through this with friends and family has been extremely helpful. Even though I had decided not to ask anyone outside those who already know about this to try to probe for more details, my friends and I did consider some very good points:

* The other friend of the two of theirs who told us that there might have been something going on had said he was aware the other guy had a crush on my GF. He also said they talk frequently. But he also said he has no knowledge of an actual relationship or any specific actions between them. We realized: if this guy was talking with their friend so often, would he never at one point ever have mentioned that he was dating her? Maybe he wouldn't have mentioned intimacy itself, but this sleaze claimed he was dating my girlfriend. If you have a close friend that you were willing to tell about your crush to, would you not have mentioned "oh yeah, she agreed to go with me" to that same person? Given that this guy and I didn't really know each other, it couldn't even be explained with "he/she was worried it'd get back to me".

* When my GF did send me that text about a hypothetical scenario involving a new relationship, the specifics actually were revolving around bad unfulfilling intimacy, and she specifically had asked "is this something you feel someone should break up over?" In other words, she's asking whether someone who's not willing to work to improve sex is someone you should break up with. This is interesting for a few reasons: assuming it's not just total coincidence, this would mean that 1, whatever intimacy there might have been wasn't very good (kinda makes me laugh a little actually, because I know for a fact that ours was great for her) and 2, why of all of the people she knows would she come to me with that scenario? There were many other friends she could have posed it as a hypothetical scenario to. Even in the worst case, it could have been her coming to me to hear me tell her it's not good to do what she might have been doling. 

* Combined with last night's feelings, I realized even more, that I loved and trusted my GF to a level where, if she actually had come to me and said "hey, I kind of have the hots for this person and I'm having urges, what should I do?", that I might have actually been willing to discuss it with her - I wouldn't necessarily have immediately jumped to "no, you can't" if for no other reason than she'd have had the heart and the courage to ask me. This doesn't necessarily change too much - it still means that if anything happened, she did it without asking - it does mean that I know in my heart that I loved her enough to not only forgive, but to even be willing to discuss such a situation with her should it have arisen. 

Finally, as much as I promised myself not to look into things too much further, I did "cheat" and look at some text message conversations of ours. Some of the messages from the very end, prior to her death, definitely do show a concern and love for me. And it also reminded me that she had actually visited my house less than a week before she died, and I can say that intimacy was almost always part of the things we did when we had evenings together at one of our places. There is absolutely nothing, other than the scenario texts, that would indicate anything is going on with her. If she was actually emotionally cheating on me, there would have been many more signs. This leads to the conclusion that, even if she was doing something physical, it was almost certainly non-emotional. This is even furthered by the fact that if that hypothetical scenario did refer to this thing, she couldn't have been too deeply invested emotionally if she was 1 asking for my advice and 2 was considering ending the "relationship" enough to ask me if that's something one should do.

Each day I wake up and have horrible feelings and pain, but as I think things through and remind myself of these sorts of things and rethink the situation in a less negative way, I find these shimmers of hope and love. I also remember that there has not yet been a single person who has supported this other guy in his claims, and literally everyone I have talked to about it has immediately jumped to the conclusion that the other guy is lying, even the people on here. These are the facts that I try to hold on to, these are the things I try to remember when I feel down. 

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KayC

Have you written her a letter telling her what you want her to know? Like, you are willing to forgive if there is anything to forgive.  That you know her to be a good person that loves you, that you know she wouldn't want to hurt you, that you've struggled with what you were told, how you feel about it.

I would have a hard time believing George cheated on me because all of his actions for the 6 1/2 years I knew him were of his utmost love for me and he always had my best interests at heart.  Just because someone else says something doesn't make it so, for all you know this other person...it might be a fantasy in his head.

18 hours ago, Gail 8588 said:

You know from your experiences with her that she was a good person and that she loved you.  You also know that this guy is a jerk for having said any of this.  A decent person would not have done this to you. 

So between a good person who  loved you and a certified jerk, I'd believe the good person. 

Try your best to write this guy off as a liar who just wanted to make himself important.  He is not important at all.

Good luck.

Gail

This.

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Rhonda R

If he was really dating her he would have for sure mentioned it to this other guy.  He said they had sex in a group chat for Pete's sake.  If he really wanted her for his own and that was even an option, he wouldn't have worried about it getting back to you.  It's hard when your trust is shaken.  Especially in this situation, I would go back and forth at being mad and feeling bad for even believing it.  I understand why though.  When my husband and I first started dating, there were several women at work who were interested in him (we worked together).  Someone I considered one of my best friends didn't trust him and thought he was a "player."  She told me that he slept with this other woman at work while still married to his ex-wife.  She told me with who, when, where and the date.  She said the woman herself had told her that.  Pretty specific.  This caused all kinds of trust issues for me.  I didn't really know this woman too well so I wasn't going to walk up to her and ask her, least of all not at work.  Randy swore up and down that it wasn't true.  His friends all said it wasn't true and still I questioned it.  This was one of my best friends telling me this and she had so many details.  It finally came down to who I was going to believe.  I chose to believe Randy and that caused friend problems.  About a year after all this chaos, I had a chance to talk to this woman one on one and when I told her what I had heard she said it was absolutely not true.  This person who was supposed to be my friend lied to me and tried to come between my relationship with the man I loved.  Why?  Because SHE didn't like him.  Needless to say, she's not my friend anymore and never really was. 

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