Night Terrors

[TAM1]

Haven't had the night terrors in a few years but they began again this week. The type of sleep paralysis where I think I’m awake and see a giant spider moving on the ceiling. Happens when I'm worried or stressed and I'm there now and it's something I've worked through before when I walked or worked in my sleep. People tell me I'm strong and especially after watching and listening over the last few years, but I have been and do get scared at times with so much change. I talked to my doctor yesterday and she told me the losses of the last few years are just changes and just a part of life. People have asked, "Have you seen a therapist?"  Not that it's anyone's business but yes, I have - to the tune of $180 per hour and my insurance does not cover this though I thought of it as an investment in myself and realized there are better things to do with $180.  There was a suggestion to buy an sleeping mask which might be a good idea and will get one tomorrow.

[KayC]

TAM1 I have no suggestions as I've never experienced anything like this.  And wow, I had no idea therapists cost so much!  I saw grief counselors but they charge a lot less than that.  I do experience extreme anxiety at night, it happens when I wake up in the middle of the night and can't shut my brain off, I worry about anything/everything, and I hate it.  People say take a sleeping pill but if you do at this time of night it isn't worn off by morning and you're left tired.  And I don't usually have a hard time falling asleep at bedtime, it's when I wake up in the wee hours.

I hope a sleeping mask helps you, let us know, okay?  I would have suggested seeing your doctor but you already did that, and her response didn't seem helpful.  "Just a part of life".  Obviously not everyone is hit as hard with every death, when you have someone you are this close to, you don't ever get over it and there's no se la vie about it.

[Billie Rae]

This is interesting,I had my first nightmare last night and woke feeling it.I dreamt Charlie was angry and was punching me on my head and slapping my face,he was calling me foul names and pushed me to the ground.I woke feeling bruised and terrified.I don't know why this would be my first dream of him,he NEVER touched me that way and I've never felt threatened by him,if we fought he would call or text me to say he was sorry and was I alright.
I was feeling nerves all morning.

Sent from my LG-TP260 using Grieving.com mobile app

[TAM1]

It's so wonderful to wake up this morning and see responses from my friends here - to me, amazing. Thankfully I have today off and take time for things, like find a sleep mask and do some self-care. I have a diffuser that I put lavender oil in which is calming and smells nice and always have candles to be surrounded by light.  Incense, also as I make my own blends or shop for good ones. 

I worry and wonder quite a lot about so many things and getting deep and healing sleep is so important.  My doctor prescribed Ambien and the insurance required prior authorization which was not done though I did follow up - she is not helpful and gave me a sample of psychotropic medication to help that from checking has major side-effects of nausea, diarrhea, and headaches.  No thanks! I have a bag of Calming Tea from Emma's Herbs so will make enough today to last the week.  I honestly believe we need to be our own and best advocates - so if I can pass along good modalities and ways, mores the better. 

Thought to sleep in today, but the people in the apartment downstairs came home yesterday and the usual howling, banging, fighting and screaming began this morning. Imagine 2 adults and 3 children living in a 2 bedroom apartment and the woman told me they want more children.

[KayC]

TAM1 Sometimes I think insurance is our worst enemy!  They make it harder and harder for doctors to do their job and for us to have anything covered, meanwhile everything costs more not less!  Good luck treating this naturally, I've heard that about lavender too but unfortunately I don't like the smell although my sister sent me a lavender/cranberry scented candle that I loved.

Bille Rae, I don't know why we dream some of the things we do, sometimes it has meaning but often it seems nonsensical!  Try to busy yourself with something and not think about it, like distracting yourself so you can let it go.  (((hugs Hon!)))

[JES]

@TAM1  No actual night terrors but had nightmares when I felt I couldnt move and Kevin would wake me up as I had woken him up yelling in my sleep. I found this happened more when sleeping on my back.  I don't know how you sleep but could try sleeping on side ( pillow behind you) as I always tended to end up on my back again.  Good luck on mask also.   @Billie Rae  I went thru those same kind of nightmares awhile back also. I was fighting with everyone in my dreams, even people I hadnt seen since highschool.  Remember 1 bad one with Kevin also, and he was never ever that way with me either.  I haven't had those kind of dreams for awhile now. I have to wonder if this too, is just part of this grief process. Wishing you peaceful sleep.  Love and hugs.

[EternalFlames]

I used to get recurring nightmares about my wife dying the first year after her death. They were so harrowing and mortifying. I would wake up feeling like someone scooped out of my heart and soul with a shovel. Luckily I haven't had one in a long time.

For me, they were always about her dying and they went away over time. I never had them about other scary things (e.g. giant spiders). I wonder if it could be related to something else other than just grief. I think it's worth talking to a professional (doctor, therapist) just to get a professional opinion on it.

Therapy doesn't work for everyone. It took me a while but it really made a difference for me. Disclaimer: I spent tens of thousands of dollars on it... it was not cheap. I just sucked it up as an investment in myself. What good is her money if it just sits in my bank while I killed myself or drank myself into oblivion? Mental health was worth it for me. I want to be healthy and happy enough to enjoy the rest of my life. That said, therapy is not for everyone, and the cost may not be worth it for everyone either.

[TAM1]

The nightmares are a normal and natural occurrence - but they are upsetting and unsettling even thought there is an explanation.  I've seen all of the right people, my physician and a therapist, and like you, sucked it up. Then there was the point when I could step back with the tools they gave me to understand things.  There is so much we have gone through with our losses that take so much of ourselves so no wonder this comes out in our dream states and we remember so vividly. I'm beginning to remind myself that these are not real, even if they seem so.  So even with the same "dreams" last night into early this morning when I woke up I was just done and said so - out loud.  I'm done taking that into the day.

Most of this is stress-related as there has been so much of that over the last few years and especially lately with managing things at work and now looking for a new place to live when my current lease expires in mid-June.  At some point I need to stop missing the home we had for so long and envision and make my own, though I've done pretty well so far. I had not lived alone in 20 years after he was gone. I read a few years back that after such a loss it's as if these huge waves keeping rolling over us and they become less and less over time.

 

[foreverhis]

On 4/13/2019 at 8:39 AM, Billie Rae said:

I dreamt Charlie was angry and was punching me on my head and slapping my face,he was calling me foul names and pushed me to the ground.I woke feeling bruised and terrified.I don't know why this would be my first dream of him,he NEVER touched me that way and I've never felt threatened by him

I'm sorry to say this doesn't seem altogether unusual. 

I've had only two memorable dreams of my husband since he died.  In the first. we were in our living room.  I was sitting on the sofa.  My love was across the room literally tossing heavy furniture in my way so that I couldn't see.  Then we argued and he said horrible things to me, but I have no recollection exactly what.  Finally, I asked him if he'd ever loved me and he said yes.  I asked him if he still did and he said no.  That's when I startled out of sleep scared and shaking.  I was sweating and disoriented.  I was upset the entire day.  I know he loved and loves me, know it without doubt.

I can't remember most of the second dream, but the part I remember was horrible.  In it, I saw my husband being intimate with another woman (no clue who), but in the distance so I couldn't be sure.  Then he was close to me and I asked him about it.  He confirmed what I saw and said it wasn't the first time.  I woke up crying and upset.  The thing is that I know for a fact that he was always faithful to me, as I was to him.  Infidelity, hiding money (not that we had a fortune anyway, but still...), and physical or emotional abuse were the deal breakers we both had, which made things easier when we decided to marry.  Neither of us was perfect by any means, but those things were sacred to us.  He was the most honest man I've ever known.  When we took our vows, we knew we would not break them.

I've decided that those dreams are more a manifestation of my own feelings of regret, guilt, and grief that I couldn't save him.  I often feel that I let him down.  Why wouldn't my subconscious get in on the guilt trip?

[KayC]

Those kinds of dreams can be very disconcerting and no wonder it upset your day!  They feel so real when you first awake, but I'm glad you know the truth that he does love you and still does.  

I've had so much counseling in my life, my mom and first husband were extremely abusive and my dad alcoholic so it's been important to me to work through it and not let them leave profound scarring on my life and it has all been worth not only the cost but the effort, so it was natural when I lost George to again seek counseling but I've found it took years of learning, much of it from people like each of you, in forums, also reading articles, books.

[SSC]

It’s weird, or really a blessing that I don’t have nightmares about my husband,  especially  because of how he died.  Whenever I’m stressed I have dreams of waiting tables.  When I was a young mother I was a waitress and I HATED the job.  It was so stressful for me.  Now my dreams are about waiting on people and their food is taking too long to cook or I forgot to pick up a drink and I can’t get it to the table fast enough... stupid stuff...but I’m so unbelievably stressed in the dream.  

I know I’m suppressing my grief and emotions. I believe the antidepressant that I’m taking has made me either not dream or I totally forget what I dream.  But not my waitress dreams.  They’re vivid and stressful and I wake up restless. 

I wonder if I should stop taking the antidepressant to see if it helps me really feel my grief instead of pushing it away?

[KayC]

Did you start taking the antidepressant after your loss?  My grief counselor doesn't usually recommend medicating grief but I've known plenty who used it.  I had anxiety all my life so mine isn't due to grief although I'm sure that didn't help it any, but I'm on the lowest dose of the safest medicine I could find.  But no antidepressant, although I was on one when I was married to my kids' dad, I felt robotic but then that's kind of how our marriage was, he was very controlling.

Working through my grief has been one of the hardest things I've ever done, I'm glad I didn't know the day he died how long and hard this process really is.  It's because every day we live it, every day the rest of our lives.  I am ready for summer, tired of winter doldrums.

[Sunflower2]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 9:33 PM, EternalFlames said:

Therapy doesn't work for everyone.

A wise share which reinforces the fact that our history, our journey will be unique and personal.  We are responsible even in our despair to tailor and design our way through our loss.

Initially I shared what worked for me. It became redundant for me and people in despair may not be interested.  In the end I find my resources simply by feeling the pain and going within. This is my way of navigating through my sudden loss.  I have learned that just asking myself "what do I need at this moment to survive this moment"  has been a gift to myself. 

Again as always there are resources available beyond this forum that will guide us.  There are physicians who do understand.  There are sliding scales of payment with reputable therapists available. There are alternative supplements that work effectively. So much out there.  It is hard to reach and search in despair but ultimately it is what one may choose to do.   I've been very blessed with what I had created before my loss but even though it has been blessings it doesn't mean my journey has been or will be easier.  It is my journey that is healthy and it is designed to support me on all levels.  

Night Terrors:  I do occasionally have them.  For me it is a visual of my partner's sudden death.  It is a feeling of panic that will wake me up from  a sound sleep. Sometimes it will trigger a string of unpleasant feelings related to the loss.  I'm 19 months into this journey.  So the nightmares are not as frequent or intense or shattering. 

~Sunflower~

 

 

[TAM1]

During my visit to the doctor last week she gave me a sample pack of antidepressants to take for 14 days and told me to make an appointment to see her in two weeks. I checked the side-effects of nausea, diarrhea and headaches which had some high percentages and is contraindicated because I take ibuprofen, I am passing.  There is enough to deal with without those nasty "benefits" from the medication and taking this into the "every day."  Can't imagine driving to the office and having these issues plaguing the day.

This is a strange and demanding time with changes ahead though my biggest concern is at work as I could not figure out what the new unit that I was assigned to was doing.  They were missing major dates and tasks so I gave it to the managing attorney who had a talk with those involved - which could have been handled better and differently so now I have some 30 year-olds feeling insecure!  My son is 41 and we smoothed things out after a lot of crap, which is different - "eating crow" isn't something to be done in this case.  Thankfully I still have my original attorney who hired me 14 years ago and though he is working towards "retirement" and is "winding down" he continues to take on new cases and I can do what I know - but he has stepped back.  Almost feels as if everyone has stepped back so am thankful to come here.

And it does not matter how far along you are in your grief to still be hurting - there is no time-frame. People might say or think, "Aren't you done with this?"  No!  Denying sadness and grief denies healing. It's tough to feel vulnerable.

[KayC]

And a lot of times you have to give it a month before getting the full effects...there isn't a right or wrong way of handling this.  For some antidepressants are needed, I only hope that people give themselves a chance before jumping to them...as Sunflower expressed she's found her way of letting it flow, feeling it...I kind of think of it as sitting with yourself through your pain, learning to be kind to yourself, understanding of yourself, giving yourself what you need, but honestly if antidepressants are all that stands between you and making it through this, I wouldn't rule it out...I had to use them to get through the end of a long marriage, it was pretty stressful!  I was able to eliminate them later without a lot of undue adjustment.  I think messing with the chemicals in our brain is best if we can go naturally but sometimes it's needed regardless, if that makes any sense?  Never mind what I think, each person finds their own way!

[TAM1]

Hi KayC - I have taken Zoloft for years at various dosages as it has worked for me and with the extreme issues of the last few years I requested the dosage be increased.  And I had one of the best medical doctors for years who guided me through rough spots. For me, medication is life-saving and I'm not open to trying out some of the newer medications just because it's new, going through the side-effects, and especially if they are very expensive, aren't in generic form, and not covered by insurance.  I won't chance the natural herb components on store shelves because they have no scientific basis and can be dangerous - too much of anything can be toxic.  Turmeric is the only thing that honestly has scientific basis for anti-inflammatory properties.  Such a long day and I've decided to go to the movies by myself, for the first time in years, to see "Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds."

[KayC]

The difference being you were already on Zoloft, thus already had a clinical need for something, I'm familiar with it, that's what my kids' dad took.  We had problems when he took himself off of it.  When medication is life-saving, you should be on it!  But there are other people that run to antidepressants to avoid their grief...the grief is still there, now buried behind a mask.  I too had need of something when married to my kids' dad, but was able to go off of it when we divorced.  I never needed it with George...I'd say mine was situational-based, not chemically-based need.  We had a chemist here a year or two ago, she said when something goes on long enough, it can change our brain's chemistry.

[foreverhis]

1 hour ago, KayC said:

I never needed it with George...I'd say mine was situational-based, not chemically-based need. 

I saw our internist this week for my quarterly check up.  He'd been my husband's internist for 20 years as well.  We went through physical problems my grief has made worse.  He did my physical exam and ordered the usual blood tests.

Then he talked to me about my grief.  First, I'm glad to report he didn't spout any "time to pick up the pieces" or "you should be feeling better" cliches or crap like that.  In fact, when I said I'm still crying every day, that I miss my husband all the time, and that I'm having trouble getting things done, he said that's normal and expected, that he'd be surprised if I felt or acted otherwise at this point.  He told me that crying is good and to not hold it in.  He said that talking to family and friends about my husband, both our life together and how I'm feeling now, is good if I feel comfortable and they are understanding.  He asked how our daughter is handling her grief and wondered if part of my grief over my concern for her.  I told him about this forum and how I'd found it helpful.  He was glad because he'd suggested--not nagged, just suggested--that I consider a spouse loss therapy or support group because he knew how deeply my love and I were connected, and he knows talking helps me.  He was concerned about my ongoing insomnia and renewed my anti-anxiety med.

So then I asked him if I needed to increase my anti-depressant again.  I've been on it at sub-clinical 1/2 dose for years for one of my auto-immune conditions.  At that lower level it can help mild situational depression, such as when you have long-term medical conditions that have changed your life plans.  I never had clinical depression, just situational. He had me increase it to basic clinical level right after my husband died because he felt it might help keep me from going completely 'round the bend from shock, anger, and grief.

Anyway, long story even longer, my doctor told me flat out that severe situational depression is rarely helped by prescription anti-depressants long term.  He said if he increased my dose to the high clinical level, I'd likely feel the same emotionally, but that any medication side effects would be worse and I'd likely experience new ones.  He told me that because I'd been on this medication for years and that it helped me with few side effects, he'd felt comfortable increasing it to the lowest clinical dose.  But he also said that if I hadn't been on it, he wouldn't have immediately prescribed an anti-depressant.  He would have waited to see if the anti-anxiety medication was helpful and would only have added an anti-depressant if he felt my grief was causing serious brain chemistry changes, at which point he would also have referred me to a grief therapist.  Finally, he said that the best thing for me is to keep doing my physical therapy, using our recumbent bike, and adding light resistance exercise a few times a week.  Now that it's spring-ish, he wants me to take short walks several times a week.

He's not opposed to medications by any means, but believes that the best first approach is talking to others who can understand, being physically active when possible, understanding that grief is uniquely personal, and not trying to or letting others try to rush us through figuring out how to navigate a different/new life.  He agrees with what we all seem to know:  This kind of grief doesn't "end," but can and over time should evolve so that we can live with it.

[KayC]

19 hours ago, foreverhis said:

my doctor told me flat out that severe situational depression is rarely helped by prescription anti-depressants long term. 

I wasn't ever on high doses, but for me to tolerate living with my now ex-husband, I needed to be on something just to lessen the pain.  I think I was on it for about two years or so...not sure what they consider long term.  I can't even remember what I was on!

I'm sure glad your doctor has an understanding of grief and an awareness of what does/doesn't help, not all do!  Sounds like you have a good doctor, so did I, I wish I had him still, unfortunately he had to close his practice several years ago and now works in an urgent care facility out of town.  (one my insurance doesn't cover)  I miss him, I used to work for him years ago, and he was my doctor for about 32 years I think.

19 hours ago, foreverhis said:

He's not opposed to medications by any means, but believes that the best first approach is talking to others who can understand, being physically active when possible, understanding that grief is uniquely personal, and not trying to or letting others try to rush us through figuring out how to navigate a different/new life.  He agrees with what we all seem to know:  This kind of grief doesn't "end," but can and over time should evolve so that we can live with it.

Getting out and walking is good for us not only physically but our endorphins.  Not sure it helps as much when the weather is miserable but I do it anyway!  My dog has come to expect it and I've been doing it more years than I can remember, even before I had him.

My anxiety is something I've had all my life, although not officially diagnosed until 11 years ago, I've been on Buspirone (Buspar) ever since, lowest dose.  I don't have any side effects and it's very mild, doesn't make me feel robotic or anything.  I don't want to not feel, just want something to make it more copeable.

[foreverhis]

8 hours ago, KayC said:

I think I was on it for about two years or so...not sure what they consider long term. 

I believe our doctor considers long-term to be 4 years or longer, but there may be some traditional standard that's more specific.  He said he expects to keep me on the low clinical dose for 18 to 24 months.

I suspect that the kind of stress you had with your ex-husband likely did affect your brain/body chemistry to a point where medication would be quite helpful during that time.  You may very well have had sub-clinical depression (I think that was the term our doctor used) caused by situational depression.  Once you changed your situation, your brain and body likely "settled down" as well.  Then again, I'm not a medical professional, so I am only going by what our doctor talked about with me.

[KayC]

Sounds about right!  And I did feel Robotic that last year I was with him, but again, I felt that was due to circumstances...he was very controlling and the stress was tremendous.  Funny how when I got together with George, I not only could be myself, but I discovered who my self was! 

[Skywise]

Hi Tam.  I just wanted you to know that you're not alone with your night terrors.   I get them too - all the time.  For me it's that I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that there's a black, wizened demon at the bottom of the bed that's gra bing my ankles and trying to yank me out of  bed and down to hell.  It's odd because I'm not religious  - never have been - but, while I'm in that state, I'm absolutely certain that it's a demon!

One thing that I've discovered helps a bit is that I've got a very dim lamp in the bedroom that's on a timer, set to come on at midnight.  If I'm  "awake" and the lamp isn't on then I  can, sometimes, let myself know that whatever I'm feeling/seeing isn't real. It doesn't  always work but occasionally it does

 

Between the nightmares and the terrors,  most nights I'm lucky to get 3 or 4 hours sleep.  They've put me on Mirtazapine now which helps a bit but I've honestly forgotten what it feels like to have a good night's sleep.   I don't think I'll ever sleep well again.

[KayC]

@Skywise  Wow, I am so sorry you are experiencing that, it sounds terrible.  I hope the Mirtazapine helps you with it and you can get some sleep once again.  I just asked the doctor for a new Rx of Trazodone to take as needed, I got it nine years ago and it sometimes helped me sleep.   I know if we could have our spouse back we'd all sleep more soundly!

[foreverhis]

22 hours ago, Skywise said:

I've honestly forgotten what it feels like to have a good night's sleep.   I don't think I'll ever sleep well again.

You took the words right out of my mouth! 

I try all different things in order to get to sleep at a reasonable time.  I try to figure out how to stay asleep for longer than 4 hours.  So far, I've had little success.  Even with medication, I have so much trouble with it that I feel exhausted almost all the time.  On its own, grief is so fatiguing that I'm kind of surprised I don't just fall into a stupor and not wake up for days.  Add medical conditions that cause fatigue and I should have no problem sleeping. 

It's not just needing the sleep though.  Sleep is the only real escape from the altered life I'm living.  OTOH, the only two dreams of my husband that I've had, at least that I remember, have been nightmares, so maybe that's part of the problem.  Maybe my subconscious mind doesn't want to go to that dark place in dreams again.  Sigh.

Just know you're not alone is feeling this way.  Not that it helps in the middle of long, dark nights, but it is a small comfort to know that members here understand.

[J7928]

I also just had a night terror the other night. I have had them in the past few months and often just tell myself it is not real. Try wiggling a toe or stay focused on the fact it’s not real. I know it’s hard in the moment. If it gives any relief I saw a car in mine, and looked up the meaning, and it said cats can be a sign of a spiritual presence. It made me feel a little better because I’ve seen a lot of signs from my boyfriend who just recently passed. 

[KayC]

I just ran across this, thought how apropos for this subject:
https://www.griefhealingblog.com/2012/04/nightmares-and-bad-dreams-in-grief.html