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My wife committed suicide - moral(?) question


EternallyHers

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EternallyHers

Hello everyone,

First I would like to say that I am sorry for your loss.  This goes for everyone.  This is my first loss.  I do not actually know how to do this so I am winging it a bit.  But I have a question that may sounds stupid, I really don't know.

It's been 82 days since my wife took her life.  You hear all the time about someone being with the "love of their life", but in my 30-40 years I had never experienced something like that, until I met my late wife.  She was the most incredible human being, fascinating..  You don't want to hear this.

My question is one of a moral nature, I think.  I lost all perspective when I lost her.  I can't tell what is right or wrong.  I am wondering, since I don't seem to be making progress?  If I should just take up one of these offers of sleeping with someone else.  No strings.  Just getting it over with. Part of me is screaming because that's so terrible.  The other part, no doubt my 15 year old self, is screaming to go get laid.

As wonderful as my wife was, she was extremely jealous and I had to take care in how I did everything to make sure she didn't think I was up to something I wasn't.  I have never cheated in my LIFE and I never will.  Hell, my wife even cheated on me early on.  That doesn't give you free license to do the same. I had never been able to forgive anyone for such a thing before.. With my wife, after a talk, it was so easy..  And I know she never did again.

Anyway..  I don't necessarily need to be hammered here, telling me how terrible I am for thinking this.  But I do need the truth in some fashion.  

Should I avoid this?  Is there actually a "legal" time frame where it *would* be considered cheating still?  Is this all up to me and what I think I'm ready for?  Am i very stupid for thinking about this so soon?  Just let me have it.. But please be somewhat kind in doing so.

 

Thank you for any and all opinions, advice or facts on this.

 

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Oh my gosh, if I had a coin for every time someone asked this question and prefaced it by asking the readers not to judge...no one would judge for this.  No reasonable person anyway.  Reasonable people understand that your grief for your wife, and your biological drives are not indefinitely connected.  There are a few things to consider before engaging in this.  You need to be clear, and be sure that your partner is clear, of what the relationship status is.  You don't say who is making this offer, but I would be concerned that this person may have feelings for you which you may or may not be in a place to return.  Likewise, falling head over heals into a love affair could end poorly if you don't give yourself time to grieve...I know you say that won't happen.  Also consider that sex and love are often intertwined and be sure that if you agree to casual sex, you are not hoping to gain some intimacy you are missing as you grieve your spouse.  Casual sex will never provide that.

Consider as well how you feel about the question.  Would you feel better if you waited?  If so do that for you, not because someone else tells you to.

There is no moral or legal regulation on waiting.  I like to think that if I died my husband would wait a few months before sleeping with someone, but I also understand that his grief would be his own and not really my responsibility to police.

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claribassist13

EternallyHers, 

Allow me to express my deep condolences to you. These words can do absolutely nothing to express the sorrow I truly feel (as you must feel as well). 

As far as your questions goes, I am not aware of any 'legal' time frame for such a request. Cheating is not technically a crime, so there are no legal laws governing such affairs. 
However, this is one of those difficult questions in which the answer ultimately lies within you. 
82 days converts (roughly) into almost 3 months. Let me start first with saying that your expectations for making substantial progress within this time frame are completely ridiculous. You are barely into this journey. There are emotions and realizations and firsts that you have yet to complete. How can you even being to make progress when you have nothing to progress from yet? I suppose what I am trying to say is that you are pushing an unrealistic time frame in which to heal upon yourself. There is a reason that many cultures observe a full year of grieving after the loss of a loved one. It has been statistically and psychologically shown that most people do not being a true healing process until after the first year. By the end of the first year you have experienced the majority of emotions and 'first' experiences, and that is a place in which to progress from. 
In other words, take it easy on yourself. You may not be making the progress you would like to, and that is just kind of the way it goes. You are a completely different person now because of this loss, and it takes time to not only recognize that but learn to live with it as well. 

You are not the only person debating this very question. I can almost guarantee that the majority of those individuals in this forum have experienced similar thoughts.
We have all lost the person we were the closest to. Our loss is not only the loss of that person, but the loss of incredible intimacy as well. These were the people we bared our souls to. These people knew us better than we knew ourselves, knew all of our hopes, dreams, fears, and everything in between. It is hard to lose someone with whom you've formed that kind of a connection with. They are just as much a part of us as we are to ourselves, and their death leaves us feeling broken and incomplete.
It's natural to crave that sort of a connection again, whether it be physically, spiritually, or emotionally. Humans rely heavily upon social interaction and relationships with other people. 

This is not a question I can just give the answer to, but I will give you several points to consider. 
1. Does thinking about sleeping with someone else feeling like cheating to you? If so, I would recommend waiting a while longer before approaching the topic again. You are dealing with a host of different emotions now, and still have much to feel. You don't need to add unnecessary guilt to all of that.   

2. Do you feel emotionally ready to deal with this kind of a relationship (whether it be physical, emotional, casual, serious, etc.)? It is imperative that both you are the other individual involved are crystal clear on the exact definition of this relationship. 

3. If you are confused, then you should probably wait. Your needs are perfectly valid, but not having a clear idea of what you want/need can negatively impact the other person as well. Again, clear communication is key. 

4. Ensure that you are not getting together with someone to avoid grieving. Rushing into a relationship or simply not taking the time to process your loss will not only negatively affect any relationship you are in, but will ultimately lead to a host of other issues. The brain has a magnificent way of coping with all manner of trauma, but your brain does require time to heal. Not allowing your brain to process the event as it must. you open the door for countless problems to arise. 

In the end, this is about how you feeling and doing what is best for your healing process. None of us can provide any concrete answers, but we can provide points to consider and ears to bounce conversation off of. Please feel free to contact any of us if you need an open, non-judgmental ear. I hope this is able to help in some small way. 
Keep talking, keep reaching out.  

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Claribassist really covered this well.

I am so sorry for your loss.  Grief shakes us to the core, the time to come is what is commonly referred to as grief fog.  It's hard to even think.  Perspective?  I'm not sure we have one when we've just suffered such trauma.

You won't find judgment here.  Everyone is trying to find their own way.

It can't be cheating when the person has died.  But more importantly, what do you hope to accomplish?  I'm not sure it will have the effect you might want.  

I have learned it's good to take time to get used to being on my own and comfortable with myself before involving someone else.  And that has taken me more time than I care to say. It's an individual decision whether to seek a new relationship or not  In the process I've made the decision to stay on my own...I've known some who remarried a couple of months later in an effort to drown out the loneliness and distract themselves from grief.  It doesn't work like that...they usually find grief staring themselves in the face and now they have the complications of a new partner to boot.

I know guys sometimes compartmentalize sex and it may just be that you seek, not a relationship...sometimes it's hard to separate where one ends and the other begins.  

Are you seeing a grief counselor?

http://www.griefhealingblog.com/2013/11/surviving-spouses-suicide.html

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EternallyHers
1 hour ago, seachelle said:

Oh my gosh, if I had a coin for every time someone asked this question and prefaced it by asking the readers not to judge...no one would judge for this.  No reasonable person anyway. 

You're right of course. I guess I am not different than anyone else going through this that has no clue what they are doing. I really shouldn't have tried to preface in order to attempt to justify my question.  We're all different, yet in some ways we all have the same issues.

 

1 hour ago, seachelle said:

You don't say who is making this offer, but I would be concerned that this person may have feelings for you which you may or may not be in a place to return.  Likewise, falling head over heals into a love affair could end poorly if you don't give yourself time to grieve...

I have not initiated this.  After trying my very best to be objective today, I realized that this would be such a bad idea and you have touched on, maybe outline exactly why.  No, I could never - at this time - give anything back to someone that wanted anything other than physical needs.  Honestly, I shouldn't have even posted.  Everything in my head is different every 20 mins to 2 hours.  During some of those times I wonder if I am doing this wrong, if I am taking too long, if I am being unnecessarily emotional .. That is something I wonder because I always have been, especially a male that grew up during the time I did.  My point with that is, I have absolutely no idea if I'm too emotional or not.  But who can judge that anyway?   What a question.  I can get opinions for eons, but no one would be able to properly answer that.

At any rate, thank you for your reply. You gave me a bit to think about as well as validated some of my feelings toward this issue.  This ridiculous issue.  Of course I'm not ready.  I don't even *want* to.. I was wondering primarily if I did it if this would help.  Sure, I have needs.  We were very sexually active.  We both had very active libidos.  But I can take care of that myself as long as I need.  I don't need to rush in and screw my head up further.  Damn I feel stupid at the moment.  I realize I shouldn't.  I just do.

 

1 hour ago, claribassist13 said:

Allow me to express my deep condolences to you.
82 days converts (roughly) into almost 3 months. Let me start first with saying that your expectations for making substantial progress within this time frame are completely ridiculous. You are barely into this journey. There are emotions and realizations and firsts that you have yet to complete. How can you even being to make progress when you have nothing to progress from yet? I suppose what I am trying to say is that you are pushing an unrealistic time frame in which to heal upon yourself. There is a reason that many cultures observe a full year of grieving after the loss of a loved one. It has been statistically and psychologically shown that most people do not being a true healing process until after the first year. By the end of the first year you have experienced the majority of emotions and 'first' experiences, and that is a place in which to progress from. 
In other words, take it easy on yourself. You may not be making the progress you would like to, and that is just kind of the way it goes. You are a completely different person now because of this loss, and it takes time to not only recognize that but learn to live with it as well. 

Thank you.

That's what I was afraid of.  Not that I needed to wait to have any sort of sexual relation, but that I am only getting started.  I have been a bit afraid to look this up because I feel like I am barely keeping what sanity I have left.  I have little to no (usually none) support.  I just have me and my head-space.  And I have over-thought everything since I was a child.  I have my son, but I really, really don't want to burden him with the fact that his father is losing .. control and can't seem to maintain very long.

I'm sorry.  I'm sorry for all of you.  This is likely true for many.  I have just never been through anything remotely like this and the pain.  I've known pain.  But this .. This is    I used to like crying.  It was rare, and the release felt good.  Now everything seems to set it off.. I'm so sick of tears.  I'm so sick of talking to my walls as if she can hear me.  I'm so tired of my day starting, thinking she's there because I dream of us together, and what (appears to) wake me is her softly calling my name.  This morning I actually answered her an instant before I open my eyes and remembered.  I have 100's of pictures of her, but precious little video besides our .. more intimate ones.  So many things I never caught on video that she did..  I'm so afraid I'm going to forget what they were all like exactly.  

I'm sorry.  This is probably why I have no support.  I just don't stop.  I can go forever.   .. Talk talk talk

I have never been the one that needed support.  I also thought I could handle anything.   That's not exactly true, is it.  This was something I know that I had feared whenever it would occur to me that she could go before me, and I would be without her.  I had never, ever thought it could be this soon though.

 

Okay..  I got way off-track there.   Let's get through this.

 

1 hour ago, claribassist13 said:

You are not the only person debating this very question. I can almost guarantee that the majority of those individuals in this forum have experienced similar thoughts.
We have all lost the person we were the closest to. Our loss is not only the loss of that person, but the loss of incredible intimacy as well. These were the people we bared our souls to. These people knew us better than we knew ourselves, knew all of our hopes, dreams, fears, and everything in between. It is hard to lose someone with whom you've formed that kind of a connection with. They are just as much a part of us as we are to ourselves, and their death leaves us feeling broken and incomplete.
It's natural to crave that sort of a connection again, whether it be physically, spiritually, or emotionally. Humans rely heavily upon social interaction and relationships with other people. 

Yes.  Oh my God, yes.   She was the first woman to ever truly understand me.  I'm serious, she got all of me.  And I told her everything.  Things I would have never told anyone, and her me.  To say we were intimate.  As you know it's far beyond that.  

And yes.. Going from more affection and love than I knew what to do with (I loved every moment), to .. nothing.  Nothing.  Plus no her.  We were an odd pair, but perfect for each other.  Unfortunately we were both introverts to my (now) detriment.  We .. I really don't have friends.  We never needed more than us.  I actually know that's unhealthy for most, but I promise that wasn't the case for her and I.  At least it didn't seem to be at all.   And I wasn't the lock her away from the world type.  I'm not that guy.  

 

And my son lives very far away and is quite busy.  I certainly don't want to go try to make friends just to turn around and use them in my grief.  I'm okay with doing this virtually alone.. I jsut need to .;. Do whatever it is you do besides hurt and cry.  Going over everything repeatedly, trying to figure out what I should have done differently.

 

1 hour ago, claribassist13 said:

1. Does thinking about sleeping with someone else feeling like cheating to you? If so, I would recommend waiting a while longer before approaching the topic again. You are dealing with a host of different emotions now, and still have much to feel. You don't need to add unnecessary guilt to all of that.   

2. Do you feel emotionally ready to deal with this kind of a relationship (whether it be physical, emotional, casual, serious, etc.)? It is imperative that both you are the other individual involved are crystal clear on the exact definition of this relationship. 

3. If you are confused, then you should probably wait. Your needs are perfectly valid, but not having a clear idea of what you want/need can negatively impact the other person as well. Again, clear communication is key. 

4. Ensure that you are not getting together with someone to avoid grieving. Rushing into a relationship or simply not taking the time to process your loss will not only negatively affect any relationship you are in, but will ultimately lead to a host of other issues.

1. Yes.  And I agree.  I regret asking that question.  I was in a different mood and have been offered comfort? in that way.  I think I would forever regret that.

2.  Absolutely not.  It would have been clear.  At least I would have made myself clear to her.  She should already be clear, but something -tells me different.

3.  I agree.  And yes I feel permanently confused.  I absolutely agree that communication is key.  My wife and I talked about everything.  Including talking about others we found attractive.  We decided early on that if we had no secrets, we could never ruin us.  but I must have done *something* wrong.  I'm not going there right now.  I can't.

4.  That's most likely one of the primary reasons my earlier today self was considering this.

 

I was writing this last night and fell asleep.  There are things I would rewrite after reading this again, but I think it's good enough.  It's exactly what I was feeling at the time and not really different from now.

Thank you for  your replies.  I had, for the most part, decided to wait.  But you gave me exactly what I needed.  I can't tell  you how much I appreciate that you took the time to reply in such detail and with such compassion.  I am very grateful.  

I know you all understand what it's like. As you know I'm a complete mess and sometimes I am not thinking the way I should be.  I think sometimes I am looking for a shortcut through the grief or something similar.  

 

Again, thank you for taking the time.

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In thinking about this, this keeps coming to my mind:
"Everything is permissible for me, but not all things are beneficial "

I'm glad you're taking time to think things through. :)

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EternallyHers
2 hours ago, KayC said:

I have learned it's good to take time to get used to being on my own and comfortable with myself before involving someone else.  And that has taken me more time than I care to say. It's an individual decision whether to seek a new relationship or not  In the process I've made the decision to stay on my own...I've known some who remarried a couple of months later in an effort to drown out the loneliness and distract themselves from grief.  It doesn't work like that...they usually find grief staring themselves in the face and now they have the complications of a new partner to boot.

Thank you for your reply.  I hadn't noticed because I started replying before it was there and submitted this morning.

I agree 100% with this.   Before I met my love, I had been taking time for just me.  It had been 4 years, intentionally alone, after a most terrible and harmful marriage that I met the most amazing woman would would become everything to me.  I certainly was not looking at the time, but She had me so quickly.  It really didn't take long for it to happen.

So I was doing exactly that.  I knew I needed time after that woman I had been with for 9 very long years.  My wife eventually healed anything that I hadn't been able to fix.  The seemingly smallest things make me so ....  It's something like despair.  You know.  You all know.  I was so  upset for a time yesterday that I couldn't find her giggle on any video that I have.  I am very lucky that I literally have 100s of pictures, but I have precious few videos.  She was so animated and had limitless expressions.  It's not possible to photograph them all.  But, I know I'm lucky for what I have.  In fact, there's one short little video from a long time ago where she is being the cutest thing I have ever seen.  It was bittersweet to find that the other day, but ultimately I am very thankful.

I understand many things.  I work with logic daily.  My logical mind can't help me now.  I am still struggling to work.  This is so far out of my field.  

While I am certainly not happy that you all are going through this.  This is the worst thing I have ever experienced.  But I will say I am so thankful for coming here and for those that have replied with such kindness.  My wife and I believed that kindness was the answer to many things and that the most important thing in life was to love and be loved.  Simply that.

 

Thanks again,

 

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EternallyHers
3 hours ago, KayC said:

I forgot to address this part.  No, I am not.  But I do have a regular therapist.  

The thing is, I'm an idiot.  I haven't told them yet.  I haven't wanted to deal with that much reality.  I've known this therapist for years.  I know I need to, i just know things will no doubt get so much worse before they get better once i do that.

Like I said, I am aware that I am just plain being stupid here.

 

Maybe a grief counselor would be better.  Just keep them separate, and eventually combine them.  I don't know.  Something else out of my field.  I guess I will just finally tell my therapist and .. Let things happen.  My therapist absolutely adores my wife.  I love it when I go in and she asks after her, wanting to know how she's doing.  I've never been the brightest crayon in the box.

 

Acceptance has to happen eventually, right?

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claribassist13

It seems that you've made your decision. I am glad that you have a group to rely upon (even if it is only us). 

I am approaching 9 months since my fiance died, and while I don't know much, I can say this: communication (with yourself and others), a support group, and self-care are key. 
You and I are both alike in the fact that we are extremely independent people. I never really needed support, and would rather keep my emotions hidden from everyone else in order to not seem vulnerable. 
I've tried it, and it doesn't work. Our loss is simply too much to bear, and there are times when we just have to talk to someone. We don't need their input necessarily, sometimes we just need to talk to help our brain process all that's going on. Definitely talk to your therapist. No doubt your therapist already knows that something is up and has been waiting for you to bring it up. Grief changes you fundamentally, and that is something that does not go unnoticed by the people who know us. 
I would reach out to the people you do have in your life. And don't forget that you have us as well. We can't offer shoulders to cry on, but we can offer ears, kind words, and some advice. Don't be afraid to post about whatever is on your mind. If you feel the need to post it, then it's important!

Yes, this pain is awful. It's nothing we have ever felt before, and will come nothing close to what we will ever feel again (hopefully). The crying, while exhausting, is doing good for the body. It sucks to cry everyday though, to have to re-realize that our loved ones are gone. We feel like we are going out of our minds simply because in some ways we are. We are trying to cope with traumatic events, and while our brains can do a great job, that doesn't mean that it's not hard on the brain. 
I like the quotes "grief is love turned inside out" and "what was it like to lose him/her? It was like hearing every goodbye ever said to me - said all at once". 
I feel like the two quotes above really speak to the gravity of our pain, even to those who have never experienced our situation. 

Do not feel ashamed for the way you feel or the things you think. Every single feeling and thought is valid. The pain we are stuck in is beyond ourselves, and it is difficult to not seek out anything and everything to numb it, if only for a few seconds. 

If it helps, gather up all the pictures, videos, text messages, emails, etc. that you can find and store them in a safe place. I have spent months gathering every single shred of anything I had and put it all into Dropbox (among various other backup locations). 
If you feel like you are forgetting her (which is all a lie, you'll never forget her), look at the pictures. Watch her in the videos. Memorize the subtle distinctions of her speech patterns in emails and texts, examine her handwriting. Use this things to refresh the things you already know about her. You will never, ever forget her. It feels like you might, but I can promise you that you will not ever forget. The people who make such profound impacts in our lives never truly leave us. They live on in us, in the memories we keep and in the people we are. 

We have all been shoved past the point of no return. Logic cannot touch us here, no matter how loudly it bangs on the door. This is an emotional time, and logic has no place here. 

Keep talking, keep reaching out. 

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