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avc2003

Grief and the Court System

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my name is charlotte, i lost a 20 yr old

on 11/24/03 its been the longest year of

my life. my son was working on his low rider

a 1969 chevy impala, three days after his 20th

birthday.on 11/13/03. my son Anthony v. Chavez

was underneath his car, the jack slipped and the

car fell and crushed him, he lived in a security area

with a gate. anthony's girlfriend called the paramdics

but the fire dept. and the police, and paramedics

couldn't get in because they didn't know the code

to open the gate, time went by,we are guessing it

may have been more that 18 min. they finally got in

to assist him, they used the jaws of life and ripped

up his car,with in two min they got him out from under the car

but yet it took them 18 mins to get to him,i believe if their

wasen't a gate, my anthony would have lived, i haven't

started a lawsuit against the complex, i don't know where

to start or who to talk to. if any body has a good lawyer

please write to me @

po box 593

las vegasd,nm 87701 or call me @ 505-425-9565

thank you, lets all try to have a new year

prayers for all

anthony's mom(charlotte)

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Charlotte, I am so sorry for your loss. From what many parents have said taking these suits to court is very hurtful, long, and takes a lot of courage. Many don't get the outcomes that they want. That being said, if you are wanting to at least find out I would call an attorney that you have heard of, there are many in the phone book. Many lawyers now a days will give you the first consultation free to know if there is any way to pursue the suit and if there is any merit. You will probably have to make calls to find out which ones will do that. Our state, Kansas, has many commercials on TV for many lawyers that do a consultation first. There might be those in your state, also. Again I am so sorry, it sounds as if there needed to be some kind of system in place for the police to override any codes, what happen sounds negligent, but that would be up to the courts to figure that out. It isn't going to be easy, and it will take some time. Jim

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Charlotte - I too am sorry for your loss. I would suggest you call the local bar association as they can recommend an attorney in your area who specializes in this type of case. In our state many lawyers do the initial consultation for free. Again, may you find peace.

Lynda (for Julie 12/15/75-10/13/03)

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Charlotte, Lynda has made a great suggestion. I wanted to add that be careful about the first person you talk to being the person you go with. When one is grieving that first supporter is likely to be the lifeline you are looking for, but may not be the best in the long run. I would try and get as many opinions as possible to see just what you should expect and then go with the one you feel most comfortable with. Jim

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My 17 yr old son was killed January 1, 2005, as a passenger in his own car which his "best" friend was driving. I have taken the attitude of "what would Griffin want me to do", because all I have left is my relationship with my son as it is now. I have chosen to "forgive" my sons friend and let the state atty decide a punishment. I have regular contact with my sons friends- which is difficult at times- but I know that is what Griffin wants from me. Yes, I have anger- but revenge would not bring my son back. Forgiveness insures my reunion with my son more than revenge. Good luck-and very sorry for all our losses. You can see Griffins website @ www.memory-of.com Type in Griffin Schwartz. Feel free to light a candle or leave a message- or send me a message.

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I lost my son in 2000. He was killed by his step mom. Jandson was almost 2. It took about a year for her to plea to 2nd degree child abuse homicide, although the had enough to try her for 1st degree homicide. This year she will having her first parole hearing. Which I feel I need to attend.

I still grieve daily for his loss, and struggle with helping his older brothers deal as well. I was hoping someone out there could tell me what to expect at the parole hearing. And if anyone has older children who they have helped grieve. I would love some help. Thank You

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My daughter was brutally murdered almost three years ago, by her boyfriend. He pleaded guilty and was given a life sentence in Febuary 2003, we are still to know how long he will serve in prison before he is eligible for parole. This in it's self is making it harder to heal as we feel we are stuck in a kind of limbo and cannot move on from this stage. We feel we have been treated very shabbily by the court system, on that day and now, once the trial was over we were just cast aside and left to get on with it. It really makes me angry that we as survivors are given no real legal support or help practically or emotionally,the man who did this to our darling daughter will be given all the support he needs now and when he is released. Is this justice!!

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Lizzyb and Fuscia,

I am sorry for your loss. I can't imagine losing a child from injuries that came from the hands of another. My son crossed over from injuries sustained in an accident and I have a hard time with the "why didn't he" do this or that. But, to lose your child at the hands of another.... Oh how my heart hurts for you. Please know that my prayers are with you as you move through the "justice" system. I pray for your peace.

Peace to you, Tina

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Dear Tina,

Thankyou so much for your kind words of support, and I too am so sorry for your loss. To lose any child is a terrible thing, but to lose a child suddenly brings with it added difficulties and questions. I think this is probably some thing we both share. I hope you too find some small pockets of happiness and peace, you are in my thoughts.

Fuschia

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Hi all –

I’m sure you’ve noticed that the message boards seem a little different. We’ve streamlined the message boards. We’ve unified the forum and thread names and tried to make things less confusing. I hope that it has made things easier for you.

We are considering adding new threads to the topics and would love to hear what you would like to be added. You can write me at julie@beyondindigo.com to share your thoughts and suggestions. I would love to hear from you.

I am also still looking for message board monitors. If you are interested, please let me know!

Take care,

Julie

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I was wondering how to deal with the driver who is responsible for my son's death.The driver was 15 and was driving 91-97mph when the accident occured.Another teen was also killed.The driver walked without a scratch.We are currently in court with the County Attorney pressing charges for the state of 3 counts og negligent endangerment(youth court charge)My issue comes that it has been 4 months and the driver continues to drive without a seatbelt and was also drinking and driving 6 weeks after my son's death(not caught by law enforcement but punished by school officials for violating athletic contract by drinking)We are so frustrated that legally this kid can still drive after killing 2 people waiting for the court to decide.The other frustrating thing is no remorse.Even his family thinks it was just a teen driving mistake.How does one cope with the emotions of a son's death and the lack of remorse by the responsible party or the fact that he still drives.I am at my wits end.The topper to all this is I work with the mother of the driver and she is horrible and thinks that my driving my car with a memorial window sticker is harrassment .Any thoughts on how to survive this ?

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Tylersmom,

I cannot believe this kid is still driving. Even if the courts had not taken his license, I cannot believe the parents have not forbidden him to drive. I don't know how they can live with that. My daughter Ashley died in a single car accident. She fell asleep and hit a tree. One of the things I'm am so thankful for is that I have noone to blame, or that noone can blame her. What if she had hit someone? That would be doubly hard. I can't imagine as a parent not taking some responsibility for the accident their son had, by at least not letting him drive! Also I can't believe the other mother could think that a memorial sticker is harassment! This is not about her. You have lost your son. I have memorials all over for Ashley. I have her picture tattooed on my back, I have her picture hanging in my car, I have earrings that were made for me of my daughter as an angel and the list goes on. These things in some way comfort me, even if it's just a little bit. I believe our children are an extension of us, so if my child had hurt someone or caused such pain in someone elses life, I would feel some resposibility and want to offer any comfort that I could. I am so sorry you have to go through this. Peace to you,

Dottie

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Tylersmom, some people are just incomprehensible, it sounds like the parents of the kids that killed your son are complete morons, in denial about what damage not only thie child has caused, but what they are still allowing to happen. I don't know if this witch has confronted you about the sticker in your car window, but I think I would go nuclear on her if she would do it again. There is no understanding people like this, never will be. I am so sorry that you have to be put through all of this, but I would stay on the authorities and get this kid off the street if that is possible. One of our good friends who lost their son in an accident where the driver was drinking and going at an excessive speed still has to watch, after 6 years, this kid driving around everyday, still getting tickets. He did have to spend some time in jail and his life is ruined, but it just doesn't seem like enough punishiment to me. I am in the same situation as Ashleysmom, Kirk was by himself and I thank God that was the case. I don't know how I would have handled him hurting someone else or someone else hurting him. It just isn't fair and what we as parents are left with is complete and utter devastation to clean up, at times it seems like it is not going to be possible to even get started in cleaning up the mess that is left of our lives, but somehow we do to a certain degree.

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I was wondering how to deal with the driver who is responsible for my son's death.The driver was 15 and was driving 91-97mph when the accident occured.Another teen was also killed.The driver walked without a scratch.We are currently in court with the County Attorney pressing charges for the state of 3 counts og negligent endangerment(youth court charge)My issue comes that it has been 4 months and the driver continues to drive without a seatbelt and was also drinking and driving 6 weeks after my son's death(not caught by law enforcement but punished by school officials for violating athletic contract by drinking)We are so frustrated that legally this kid can still drive after killing 2 people waiting for the court to decide.The other frustrating thing is no remorse.Even his family thinks it was just a teen driving mistake.How does one cope with the emotions of a son's death and the lack of remorse by the responsible party or the fact that he still drives.I am at my wits end.The topper to all this is I work with the mother of the driver and she is horrible and thinks that my driving my car with a memorial window sticker is harrassment .Any thoughts on how to survive this ?

tylersmom, i'm so sorry about this whole situation that you are in. i would suggest that you keep after all the different authorities you can. keep pushing and be a pain in their ass. the parents sound like people that do not see the real picture. unfortunately they may never see it. go to your local government and local authorities. tell your story. contact the local news channels and papers. do whatever extreme measures you can. contact the school that this boy goes to and tell them that he should not be allowed to drive a car on school property. call the kids/parents auto ins co and see what can be done. or at lease make your name/story known to them. even contact children and youth services......the parents are being neglectful that their son has an alcohol problem and wont get him help. also, lack of proper parental supervision for a minor. for the issue that the child needs AA meetings and community service NOW and a more severe punishment later. wow, the more i go on the more angry i get. i am so sorry that you have to go thru this, i can't even imagine how you are dealing with this. as for your "co-worker".....go all out with pictures and memorials of your child, it is for your healing in the grief process. it is not harrassment in any way. i don't know if any of my suggestions will get you anywhere but try whatever you can to get some type of answers/attention to this situation that you can. i do wish you the best and keep posting here at least to vent. we are here to listen. heather

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On Dec. 30th 2004, my 24 yr old son, John Robert went out drinking with several of his friends. He was in school, and there were just 3 days left until he had to hit the books again. He was an EMT, and in the firefighters program which was very demanding, and was needing to 'unwind'. He had wrecked his truck just days before, totaled the truck, and fractured his ankle, which was causing him to limp, and worry about performing drills at school. So, he and four friends go out. One friend, Tory, offered John Robert a "pain pill", foolishly, & w/ trust in his friend he took the pill. The four went to another bar, where John Robert was begining to feel "sick". Two of the boys were brothers, one brother took John to the house these two boys (24 &23) live in with their parents, a girl friend, and Tory's little girl. WHen the boys got to the house John was throwing up, and, "really out of it" This entire family understood the situation. The pill Tory offered John Robert was Methadone, from his father's 'pill bag'. John Robert would have never taken methadone. He knew alot about it. His cousin had just died from a methadone overdose 4 months prior. So, this family carried John down to their garage & tossed him on a make shift bed. Not able to wake him, they left him. No one called 911, they didn't want to get in trouble. In the morning, Tory went to check on John, & found him not breathing, with lips blue. Still they did not call 911. Instead they got online to find out if John would show methadone on a drug screen. The family got dressed, and 2 hours after they found him with blue lips, they put John in a car & drove the 20 min. drive to the hospital. 911 has a response time of 4min. in our town. But the family didn't call 911. They didn't want to get in trouble, the Dad didn't want the police at his house. While they were dropping John off at the hospital, one boy came to my house, telling me John overdosed. Knowing John, I kept asking, on what, John would never do drugs. Tory said, "It could have been alot of things, I get a bunch of different drugs from my Dad. It could have been methadone." Had he not said that, I never would have known, because methadone doesn't show up on the regular tox. screen. I had to ask for a special test to be done.While we were at the hospital the family was at home "cleaning" just in case the police came.Tory lied to the Doctor & said he didn't know what John had taken. Tory lied to everyone, different lies, to different people. The first thing the Doctor said to me was, "Your son will never open his eyes. He'll never be OK." But, I held on for 7 days. We pulled life support, and he passed 3 days later. I brought him into this world all by myself, and that's how he left. I held him in my arms & told him how much I loved him. I'm grateful for that.His death has been the hardest thing I can never live through. I don't have any family contact, haven't spoken to my mother, brother or sister in over 10 years. Altho they were very close to John Robert, & I called them at the onset of all this, they haven't picked up the phone to even give me a call. I feel so alone, and so heavy with sadness, I just can't live another day. If losing your will to live would let you die, I would have. But life is cruel, & I have to stay behind & try to make what is so very wrong right. The DA hasn't shown any interest in this case. And I need to know how to make this family accountable. You don't just watch another human die. I need some help, advice, hope, something. I'm so sad I can't function. Where do I get the strength to fight? They family that did this to John Robert, haven't even suffered a skip in thier lives. I haven't seen any of them, or talked to them after I got to the hospital.It's just all so wrong. I live in Oregon, if anyone has anything....

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Nqueen, I don't know what to say. The death of a child is so traumatic anyway, circumstances can just eat at us and it sounds like your circumstances are beyond what anyone person should have to endure. First, you need to contact a lawyer to see if sueing the family is an option because that seems like, from what you have said, it is the only option here. Your son's friends will have to be able to testify that the kid gave him the pills and you will have to prove that they kept him confined and didn't help. I don't know what the laws are in your state, but in ours there are many lawyers that will consult the first time for free to see if it is a case they would be willing to take. You are going to need a lot of documentation from the hospital, and the coroner. This isn't going to be a simple task and this family sounds like they just stepped out of a horror movie, but trying to at least put them in the spotlight might give you some satifaction even if the case is going to be hard and take a lot of time. You have to be willing to make a lot of sacrifices to even get to first base when the DA doesn't seem to want to touch it, but a personal lawsuit might be the way to go if a lawyer thinks there is a chance. I have heard from a lot of people in wrongful deaths and there is a very long hard road that you will have to travel on this one, but just outing this family might be a good thing.

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Nqueen,

Oh my gosh... I couldn't believe what I was reading. I am so sorry for your loss. I am also very sorry that you are alone in dealing with the circumstances that surround the way your son died. I agree with Jim, contact a Lawyer, or two! At least take that first step to see where you should go with this. You may not get the resolution you are looking for, but at least you are trying to right something that feels so wrong in your heart. Do you have a friend that could make some phone calls for you? This is a lot to take on by yourself.

Make sure you get plenty of sleep, drink lots of water, and eat. These basic functions will aid you as you take on each day.

Please know that we are here for you in any way that we can. I lost my son on Jan 4, 2002, and have battled every step of the way to stay "withit". I do feel much stronger now and I know that every mini step I took got me this far. Beyond Indigo parent's are very supportive and understand your pain.

Peace to you, Tina

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I found this site a few weeks ago, from my Mom. I haven't gone on yet and talked about my son but after reading your post, I had to!

On Memorial day 2004, our 16 year old son, Josh, was found unresponsive by his friend's and 15 minutes later we were told my police that he had passed away.

I was devistated and couldn't understand what happened! He was with his 3 best friends and they had spent the night at one boy's house, which is where they were when they couldn't wake Josh in the morning.

After a few days we found out that a kid in our town had been giving out his Mother's perscription to kids and it was Methadone! Josh had taken 2, 10 Ml pills. He had never done anything like this before and we were shocked when we found out he had taken them! Nothing else was found in Josh's system except the Methedone and according to the Pathologist, the 2 pills was enough to cause an overdose in him. He had a terminal siezure from lack of oxygen to his brain. The pills caused his resportory system to shut down, once he had fallen asleep, and the lack of oxygen to his brain, caused the siezure.

Not one of his friends heard anything unusual that night and they found him in the morning, he had been gone for a few hours already. We know nothing else about the night before, if he had any problems, no one is admitting to that, and they never brought him home or to a hospital, just let him fall asleep. Although his friends were his best friends and said that other than throwing up a few times that night, before going to sleep, they swore he was fine when they did go to bed.

The kid that gave him the pills admitted to it and was waived into adult court almost immediatly. He is 17 yrs. old. His Mother had also been charged for distributing her Methedone to people in local bars here. The kid wont admit that his mother knew he was giving out her pills, so she can't be charged for my son's death. The kid is though. He ia charged with 1st degree Reckless Homocide and distributing perscription drugs. he had given the pills to another boy the night before he gave them to Josh, but this boy just got very sick from them. He had done lots of other drugs before this and I think his body was able to tolerate them, unlike Josh's.

Anyway, we have court coming up for the Mother the first week of June and for the kid, in July. We don't know what to expect, but we really need to have some justice for Josh! He never got a second chance. He made one mistake and lost his life for it! This kid and his Mother have been in and out of trouble with the law for many years. Josh had no record of any kind and was a good kid!

All I can say is that if tests showed enough Methedone in his system, the police should have been able to make an arrest in your son's case also! I would pursue this as far as you can!

We almost didn't have a case either. The samples taken after Josh died were ruined and they alsmost didn't show the true results, but out Police Chief wouldn't give up and had the samples sent to a better lab and ened up with the results we needed. We are very thankful to him! Also the DA in our County is very aware of this other family's past history and is very willing to take the case as far as he is able to!

The Mother is facing 3 counts of ditibuting, which carries a Maximim sentance of 45 years total. Her kid faces the Homocide and 2ditributing charges with a Maximum sentance of 70 years total. I don't know what will happen, but I do know that we expect some kind of justice here!

Court is going to be so very hard! Our older son, is 20 yrs old and the DA has already told us that he will be supeaoned for the jury trial. This ios going to be very difficult for all of us!

I will keep you posted, and good luck to you!!

Josh's Mom 4-ever!

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Josh's mom

I am so very sorry for your loss of Josh.It is a very tragic event.Justice is something we all seek for the untimely death of our children.My situation is different but the court system only adds to our pain.We however must prevail for our children so this does not happen to anyone else.

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Joshsmom,

I am so sorry for the loss of Josh and the circumstances that surround his death. I can't imagine taking on more than the death of my child... my heart goes out to you and your family as you go through the justice system. I would do everthing I could to make a wrong, right. I have learned a lot by hearing the stories about RX drugs on this web-site. It is now my mission to let my child, my friends' children, and anybody I come into contact with, know that RX drugs are killing children. Up until the last week, I thought everybody knew that. However, it is obviouse that it is a conversation we need to be having with our youth. Thank you... and please know that we will be thinking about you and hope that justice is served.

Peace to you, Tina

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Joshsmom,

I am so sorry for the loss of Josh and the circumstances that surround his death. I can't imagine taking on more than the death of my child... my heart goes out to you and your family as you go through the justice system. I would do everthing I could to make a wrong, right. I have learned a lot by hearing the stories about RX drugs on this web-site. It is now my mission to let my child, my friends' children, and anybody I come into contact with, know that RX drugs are killing children. Up until the last week, I thought everybody knew that. However, it is obviouse that it is a conversation we need to be having with our youth. Thank you... and please know that we will be thinking about you and hope that justice is served.

Peace to you, Tina

Thankyou so much for your understanding words! It has been a long 11 months, and the 1st anniversary for us is right aeround the corner. It is so difficult to try and explain to people when they ask what happened to our son, I feel that I have to go out of my way to defend him and the circumstances surrounding his death and that is so very hard! I am so glad that my Mom found this site, it helps to know that there are others who don't judge! Thankyou again, Josh's Mom!

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I found this site a few weeks ago, from my Mom. I haven't gone on yet and talked about my son but after reading your post, I had to!

On Memorial day 2004, our 16 year old son, Josh, was found unresponsive by his friend's and 15 minutes later we were told my police that he had passed away.

I was devistated and couldn't understand what happened! He was with his 3 best friends and they had spent the night at one boy's house, which is where they were when they couldn't wake Josh in the morning.

After a few days we found out that a kid in our town had been giving out his Mother's perscription to kids and it was Methadone! Josh had taken 2, 10 Ml pills. He had never done anything like this before and we were shocked when we found out he had taken them! Nothing else was found in Josh's system except the Methedone and according to the Pathologist, the 2 pills was enough to cause an overdose in him. He had a terminal siezure from lack of oxygen to his brain. The pills caused his resportory system to shut down, once he had fallen asleep, and the lack of oxygen to his brain, caused the siezure.

Not one of his friends heard anything unusual that night and they found him in the morning, he had been gone for a few hours already. We know nothing else about the night before, if he had any problems, no one is admitting to that, and they never brought him home or to a hospital, just let him fall asleep. Although his friends were his best friends and said that other than throwing up a few times that night, before going to sleep, they swore he was fine when they did go to bed.

The kid that gave him the pills admitted to it and was waived into adult court almost immediatly. He is 17 yrs. old. His Mother had also been charged for distributing her Methedone to people in local bars here. The kid wont admit that his mother knew he was giving out her pills, so she can't be charged for my son's death. The kid is though. He ia charged with 1st degree Reckless Homocide and distributing perscription drugs. he had given the pills to another boy the night before he gave them to Josh, but this boy just got very sick from them. He had done lots of other drugs before this and I think his body was able to tolerate them, unlike Josh's.

Anyway, we have court coming up for the Mother the first week of June and for the kid, in July. We don't know what to expect, but we really need to have some justice for Josh! He never got a second chance. He made one mistake and lost his life for it! This kid and his Mother have been in and out of trouble with the law for many years. Josh had no record of any kind and was a good kid!

All I can say is that if tests showed enough Methedone in his system, the police should have been able to make an arrest in your son's case also! I would pursue this as far as you can!

We almost didn't have a case either. The samples taken after Josh died were ruined and they alsmost didn't show the true results, but out Police Chief wouldn't give up and had the samples sent to a better lab and ened up with the results we needed. We are very thankful to him! Also the DA in our County is very aware of this other family's past history and is very willing to take the case as far as he is able to!

The Mother is facing 3 counts of ditibuting, which carries a Maximim sentance of 45 years total. Her kid faces the Homocide and 2ditributing charges with a Maximum sentance of 70 years total. I don't know what will happen, but I do know that we expect some kind of justice here!

Court is going to be so very hard! Our older son, is 20 yrs old and the DA has already told us that he will be supeaoned for the jury trial. This ios going to be very difficult for all of us!

I will keep you posted, and good luck to you!!

Josh's Mom 4-ever!

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It seems there are alot of us suffering from the irresponsible control of others medications. What we need to make very clear here is Methadone isn\'t like any other medication. It\'s has a slow \'come on\' effect, and a very long half life, which makes the taker not even notice it\'s effect for quite sometime, and by then, it\'s too late. Up until 3 years ago, you could only get methadone in a drug recovery clinic. Doctors couldn\'t write for it. Methadone was never seen as a good option to pain control, and was mainly used to help with withdrawl from heroin. Now, that Dr\'s. are handing out the scripts for it as if it were candy, the diverson rate has tripled. I\'m John\'s mom, I have been going through much of the same things you are. I can\'t get the DA to do much of anything. Even if he thinks Johns \'friend\' didn\'t mean to kill John, the fact of the matter is, he was the one who gave John the pill, and he & his family just stood by & watched my son die. Thousand of people go to prison for far less every day.

And, what do you say to these people who want to know how your child died. John wasn\'t a \'druggie\'. He too was trying hard to do the right thing, going to school, working to become a firefighter. When you say he died of a drug overdose, their whole persona changes. As if \"well, that\'s one less junkie off the streets.\' It kills me to even say it. True enough no one held a gun to John\'s head and forced him to take that pill. But, he too thought he was amongst friends, and felt a saftey in that. How foolish he must feel now. Wondering why his friends were more concerned with their own lives, than with his, which was slipping away as they watched. Something must be done. We hear a lot about oxicotin, and the likes, but, you hear very little of methadone. And, it\'s 10x more dangerous and on the rise. And like Josh, this was John\'s first time taking the drug. He had no tolerence for it, and I\'m sad to say, they were dringking on top of it all. And, John know\'s better. I think they think \'Oh, it\'s just a pill, how much harm could it do. ALOT!!!But, it won\'t do us any good to tell our children not to take this horrible drug, if they aren\'t informed of what the pill they\'re being offered is.It\'s unfortunate that we have to teach our children that they can NEVER trust ANYONE. No matter how good of friends they are, no matter what. You always have to be on your guard, because when it get to the scary part of Overdoses, all your friends will potect themselves first & formost.And, people lie. When their lively hood is on the line they really lie.The peole that allowed this to happen to my son had a high paid lawyer that very day. So, the DA has had trouble talking to them. I suppose it\'s true. If you have enough money, you can get away with murder. Just ask OJ & Robert Blake.I feel like I have no rights in any of this, but, the other family does.Way more than I do. You seem to be having more luck in the legal ranglings than I. But, I assure you, I am far from giving up. You will find solace in this kid getting some sort of punishment, ofcourse it willnever be enough, it will never make things equal. I don\'t think anything will. The friend is a total sleeze, and John was a great human, trying to do good, and the powers that be took John instead of the sleezy friend. How does that make any sense. But, then none of this makes any sense.And it never will. My whole life has been turned upside down. I don\'t see any break in the clouds. I can\'t even get through a day without crying, orI\'m just going through the motions in a complete zombie like fashion. But, after reading your story, I thought, if we are even the only two that has gone through this, together we should be able to accomplish some good. I\'d like to talk with you more if your willing. I don\'t want to intrude, and if this has been anything near as difficult for you as it has been for me, everything is wroght with difficulties, nothing is easy. And, if I had my choice, I would be in the bed, with the covers pulled up over my head. So either in this forum, or by email,if you\'d like someone who knows what your dealing with, I\'d love to chat with you. Maybe we can help one another. And, at this point in my life, I know I need all the help I can get. Looking forward to hearing more of your story, and how everything comes out.

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I just want to support both of you and let you know that I don't think your children were any less important than the President himself. Life is life. Your children died from something very unfortunate. It could happen to any of us. I feel sad for anybody that wants to "label" your child's death... they still have a lot to learn.

Peace to you and my support, Tina

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