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el-john

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Please find this board your new home to talk about issues that arise in a marriage do to a death in the family.

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For me, the main thing that's come up in all 3 of my own losses has been fear of the future, directly connected to fear that our marriage cannot provide me with enough nurturing and reinforcement to hope to have a future that can be happy enough to keep me wanting to live. My husband and I are currently in counseling to try to start addressing issues that have been avoided or buried all these years, so that we'll HAVE a future together. The fact that my husband hasn't lost either a parent or a sibling so far, and I have, doesn't help matters. He's done quite a good job so far of trying to be supportive, but admits he can't really understand what it's like. But regardless, our marital issues are still there, just exacerbated by all these deaths, and that's the point. For me, the future has looked pretty bleak because, with the various problems between the two of us, neither one of us has had much to look forward to, and once you start losing loved ones ( or even ones NOT so loved, but with closer ties ), you can't help but feel more panic about your own future. If the present isn't so hot, depression can set in pretty quickly and soon makes the situation even worse, for both partners. And when you lose a parent, someone who stayed in the picture through thick and thin, who kept loving you no matter how badly either of you acted through YOUR whole life, comparisons to your partner's ability to do the same surface.

I am now beginning to see just how hard I'm going to have to work myself, never mind my husband's part in things, to MAKE things work from here on in. Because a marriage can commonly end more easily than most parent-child bonds can, having a rock-solid marriage becomes more vital to continuing happiness after other losses. And what goes hand-in-hand with this is a good dose of healthy self-esteem, something many people DON'T have to begin with, as is the case with myself. Not only do I need to increase that for the health of my marriage, but to keep well-honed should my husband end up dying before I do! There has been little light at the end of the tunnel for me until we started getting some counseling. Now I have SOME hope, but it's going to be yet another hurdle to jump and that's not easy when you're still grieving.

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Swede1 – Counseling is such a great way to weed through the mess that marriage can become…even without death factoring in to the mix. I give you full credit and wish you nothing but the best.

In our marriage we lost a daughter, Bridgette was 2 months away from her 18th birthday and was the light of our lives. I will qualify that by saying we have a son, that was 16 at the time of our loss and he is also the light of our lives…but our little girl was so special in the way your first born little baby girl can be. I need to be careful not to exclude my son…even when I know that he won’t be reading this as I know what I am writing and would never intentionally leave him out of any equation.

So, the loss of a child is probably the most horrific thing parents can go through. At least I can say I have never been through anything more horrific and I don’t want to even imagine…the only thing worse would be to have lost both my children and I don’t think I would have survived that.

Being married and going through the exact same loss…but going through that loss differently…we handle loss so different; my husband needs to work as many hours as possible to force it from his mind…I have a very difficult time going to work. My husband doesn’t want to be reminded of the loss, doesn’t talk about Bridgette very often, other than, “what have the lawyers done lately”. But it will slip once in awhile…and he looks like someone just punched him in the gut. We are planning a trip and he said that we need to get Bridgette and Brandon’s tickets booked…it was a slip and he looked like he was going to throw up.

Intimacy…I feel like that has been lost as well. We both travel regularly for work and are not together enough for my piece of mind…but when we are together you would think we would pull closer together being intimate. I think my husband has tried to shut out all feeling because he is not on the same page as me in this area of our marriage. In fact, I just read him the riot act on the way to the airport the other day…I am keeping count and it has been 4 months…that, in my mind is not a good thing.

Communication…is our strongest point. We have always been great about talking things out; we have always had a very great communication skill (except when it involves lack of intimacy, lol). Even when I don’t feel that he is being open about our loss or discussing his feelings about our loss, I can say something to him and he is open about why…or why he feels that he doesn’t need to discuss the loss on a regular basis. It’s just too painful and talking isn’t going to bring her back and if I throw myself into work I won’t think about it.

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Ribitsmom,

I'll write more later, but wanted to suggest this article for you to read, about different styles of grieving in a family, as I thought it might help. In fact, the entire site that this comes from is well worth looking through. Hope this will help you in your situation. The counselor who set up this site is a very wise woman who writes extremely well about grief issues.

http://www.selfhealingexpressions.com/family_grief.shtml

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So, the loss of a child is probably the most horrific thing parents can go through. At least I can say I have never been through anything more horrific and I don’t want to even imagine…the only thing worse would be to have lost both my children and I don’t think I would have survived that.

Ribitsmom,

I agree that child loss is the absolute worst and while you, or others, might take offense, I'm one of those people who truly consider my furbabies to be my children. While you might not understand or agree with this, my feelings, trust me, are the same as all of the ones parents feel upon the loss of their child. Having said that, I can tell you that losing my furboy 5 years ago was worse than losing both my Mother and my brother. ( I also know some other people who, like myself, feel the same way in comparing their losses ) So, even if it sounds different to you, I really can relate to its effects upon a marriage, as I went through that myself. While we still have our 'son's' sister, she is old now, with illnesses, and as you mentioned, I personally WILL have to face my worst nightmare...that being the loss of her, too. In effect, I WILL lose both of my kidlets, my children to me. I'm truly worried I will go insane with grief then. Hence, our counselor's advise to work on creating the start of a future that will include ONLY the two of us, one that will make up the lack we, and especially I, will naturally feel after the loss of our girl.

My husband doesn’t want to be reminded of the loss, doesn’t talk about Bridgette very often. But it will slip once in awhile…and he looks like someone just punched him in the gut...and he looked like he was going to throw up.

At least you know your husband is still feeling things, from the looks on his face, even if he isn't talking about it. I know it's very common for many men to not verbalize, and that's okay to a point, as long as they haven't stuffed their feelings so far down that they really aren't even aware of them any more.

Intimacy…I feel like that has been lost as well...you would think we would pull closer together being intimate. I think my husband has tried to shut out all feeling because he is not on the same page as me in this area of our marriage.

From what our counselor has said, it's pretty much just as common to find couples who go hog-wild in the intimacy dept. as those who go in the opposite direction. It's obviously more of a problem when a couple doesn't jibe in their reactions. On this issue, I'm actually more like your husband! LOL! When I'm terribly stressed with emotional issues, or grieving, those feelings take precedence for me and I just don't FEEL amorous. It's just the last thing I want - I usually need love and affection of a non-sexual nature, especially when I'm exhausted by grief &/or stress. So perhaps he can't add, especially since he may not be releasing the grief by talking about it, to any more feelings than he's already trying to deal with, even if you perceive them as good ones?

Communication…is our strongest point.Even when I don’t feel that he is being open about our loss or discussing his feelings about our loss, I can say something to him and he is open about why…or why he feels that he doesn’t need to discuss the loss on a regular basis. It’s just too painful and talking isn’t going to bring her back and if I throw myself into work I won’t think about it.

You're very lucky here! My husband has gotten better in at least telling me the why's and wherefor's of his lack of verbalization...on more levels than just grief! LOL! I've heard the same kind of logic applied to grief as your husband is saying, and it makes things very difficult at times, because, being a woman ( I hate to stereotype, but it's true for many of us! ), I NEED to talk things out!! Then of course, while work actually CAN help certain types of people, one has to be on guard for that as an escape mechanism that may not work in the long haul, with the effects of stuffing coming out later on, often in worse or unexpected ways. In many cases, this way of coping works for my husband, but it's hard to tell when exactly it STOPS being useful and starts being destructive, as has also happened at times. I know my husband also doesn't need to grieve in the same way and for as long as I tend to, in large part because he has an easy, relaxed KNOWING that he'll see his loved ones when his time comes, and is quite matter-of-fact about life and death issues, even when they're personal to him. At the same time, this can drive ME crazy, since on the surface, it looks like he's not very affected by anything sad. It's not the truth, however, but our styles are very different, so it's hard to take when I'm so devastated for so long, and he gets on with things so much faster. We seem to have worked out a liveable method for now, though, where I can yammer away to him about my feelings, and he at least is willing to listen, without trying to 'fix' me, and that's been a great help with all my grief.

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Swede1~I do understand how devastating the loss of a "fur baby" can be...and am so sorry you lost your 'son'. I do love animals...however I would rather they be in someone else’s home...that doesn't even make sense and I will try to explain; we have been married for 21 years (Today)and have had many dogs through the years, from puppy on up. The devastation you feel when you lose one is so overwhelming and they just don't have a long life span...along with the care and clean up (we have always had large dogs)they are a lot of work. I kind of feel that you raised your children and are done...you did your job as a parent and are ready to be a grandparent (make any sense?)And want to travel and don't want to worry about who you will have watched the "kids" while you’re gone, don't want to worry about the "kids" and so forth. Well, I felt that I did my job as a "pet owner" and was done and then my husband decided he wanted another and just went out and came home with a dog (puppy) and then about 6 years later he came home with another...that said, he travels more than 50% of the time and I am here trying to manage 2 large dogs, kind of like being a single parent...for 21 years.

Well, just after we lost our daughter one of the dogs became very sick, my husband was out of town (again) and I needed to make a decision, it was a heartbreaking decision...I brought her to the vet and the vet decided to wait...this was killing me, to see her in so much pain and she was my daughters dog...they bonded. Well, to make a long story short, it ended that she had a very severe case of limes disease and was helped with medication. But there was about 2-3 weeks that I struggled with putting her down, not knowing that she had limes. So my defense mechanism is to not have animals because it is too painful, I know that we will lose both dogs eventually...plus you have the added "care" when you are ready to lead your life and the CLEAN UP is so much work. The big one drools all over everything...yuck, her tail destroys everything it comes into contact with...sounds like I am whining...I guess I am. Again, it’s like being a single parent in our house...lots of effort and maybe I am just tired.

"At least you know your husband is still feeling things, from the looks on his face, even if he isn't talking about it. I know it's very common for many men to not verbalize, and that's okay to a point, as long as they haven't stuffed their feelings so far down that they really aren't even aware of them any more"

You are accurate about my husband "still feeling", but my problem is that you KNOW he needs to become more verbal in his feelings...it isn't healthy to keep it bottled up...but you also can not force him to verbalize his feelings...to him it is easier to get through this by closing up...but he will hurt himself doing this, but I can't get him to understand that.

"Common to find couples who go hog-wild in the intimacy dept. as those who go in the opposite direction"

My brain tells me this is true...but my heart still hurts. Maybe it is our way of equaling things out...opposites attract and all that. There is a book called ‘The 5 Languages of Love’ or something on that order…it was very interesting reading. Some feel “loved” be touch, others may feel love by “deeds” and others by “words of affirmation” and each of us are different and need different things. And it was put together so we would recognize what the significant other needs to feel LOVED. Even what children need, friends needs, parents and siblings. Very interesting reading.

Denise

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Ribitsmom,

Sorry I hadn't written again, but I've been having some difficult days here. For now, just thought you might like to read this article I found on how men grieve differently. http://www.griefandrenewal.com/article5.htm In fact, you might share it with your husband and see if that might open up a dialogue with him about your different styles. After all, there's nothing like information about someone else's inner life and workings, to help ease tension.

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Well Swede1...that certainly made things clearer. Thank you. And really, after reading that I am thinkng of things my husband has done since the accident that I maybe would have over looked (had over looked) as grieving. he was the one that inisiated the trip to the law offices (wrongful death suit), he wears a necklace of a ring that belonged to our daughter, he is determined to make his businesses so successful...for our son and his future. The statement about men visiting the grave more often...I haven't seen that to be the case here, but that is just one of many things. Great article, thanks.

Denise

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hannahrosesmom

I am SO happy to see this new thread in Beyond Indigo. I've felt bad in the past complaining about my husbands behavior since our Hannah died in the other thread for Loss of Teenager. My marriage isn't really a marriage anymore, just 2 people surviving in the same house, that is, when he decides to come home. I could go on and on but time is not on my side this week but I will be reading the posts.

Hi ribitsmom! Swede1, very glad to make your acquaintance

Bye for now,

Kim ~ HannahRosesMom

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Hannahrosesmom/Kim~I am so glad you made it to this board, I remember mentioning it on the loss of teen thread and hope that others will come to this thread for help also. So many of us are really needing help with the snowball effect...lose a loved one and everything falls apart. I know that I feel it also, not just in my marriage but also with my son...so thay have also added "Raising surviving children" under loss of a child. (In case you need that link also).

Kim, you can vent all you want here, but you still could have vented until your hearts content on the other link also. Please fill me in, I have been concerned about you.

Denise

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Kim:

I certainly understand what you are saying exactly. As I have mentioned Kevin was our only child. My husband has began to drink again, and he too comes home when he feels like it. I don't you what your exact circumstance is, but this is just another added pressure to the hole in my heart. We too are two people just existing in the same house.

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hannahrosesmom

I found out the other day that my husband hasn't showed up at his new job for,well, it'll be 2 weeks tomorrow. Everyday since last Thursday he got up and left like he was going and I have no idea where he spent his time. I found out when I came across a message on the answering machine from his workplace wondering where he was because they hadn't seen him for a week by the time I heard the message. My mother in law was with me when I heard the message, we were both dumbfounded. He still doesn't know that I know he hasn't gone for 2 weeks. He has been sleeping 24/7 since last Friday. Saturday was the one year mark of losing our Hannah. I could try and write all the emotions I'm feeling but there aren't enough hours in the day. I cannot by any means support the two of us, nor do I want to. He hasn't worked since Hannah died and gets very angry with me when I get on him to get a job so we can pay bills and eat. How is one supposed to feel when hubby admits he has a nasty case of depression but refuses to get help. I have taken care of everything in my power at home but just can't continue doing it all. He's home making messes everywhere and just leaves them like I'm the maid service coming home from work to clean up after him and do his laundry. Forget telling him to clean up after himself, tried that already, all I get is a "yeah right". How do you talk to a person that won't let you finish a sentence but finished it with something horribly negative that he's decided it what I'm going to say? How do you talk to someone that complains you never talk to them and when you do they are so mean they constantly bite your head off. I barely get in the door after work and I get "What are you so pissed off about? Bad day???" This is before I get the door closed behind me and haven't even had a chance to say anything. What's really confusing is when he accuses me of doing and saying all these horrible when in reality it was him??? That so completely blows my mind. I'm scared to death to be in the house with him. I don't fear violence, it's the verbal/psychological abuse. Do I have another place to go? No. His mother was up here for a couple weeks to see if she could help him and he was just awful to her. I am at my wit's end. His behavior is such a huge slap in the face to our daughter. He gets mad at me because I've refused to fight with him the past couple months. I won't do it anymore because I know my Hannah wouldn't want that and I want to honor her memory and make her proud of me. I can't and won't do it anymore. Called my doctor today to "up" the dosage of my antidepressant. This one just isn't strong enough, the anxiety attacks aren't abating much, if anything they are getting worse. By the time I get home tonight I have to get all my emotions in check or I'm screwed. One hint of anger shows from me and the abuse starts. All I want is some small trace of peace in my life and of course, my Hannah back with me. I just can't stand this!!!!!!!!!!!

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alwaysmyjennifer

Hannahrosesmom, men think differently from ladies. Men are taught to provide and protect, and right now he feels helpless and maybe like he failed Hannah. If you think his depression is going to lead him into a suicidal thinking, act immediately. Call for paramedics, ambulance to get him the protective help he needs. In the end, he will thank you. Many parents consider suicide after losing a child. Please be careful with this. If you need to, ask a hospital psychologist for advice. They will help you. If you fear he will continue hurting you in any way, you may need to think about getting out for a while. This is the most difficult decision, but I'd never want you hurt, physically or emotionally. Yelling at you is abuse. Please take care of yourself. I pray to God you take no offense by what I'm writing, but I've grown up in the extremes of abuse, and I take it seriously. I would never say anything to intentionally upset you. I only want you to be safe and well. My prayers are with you. If I can do anything to help, let me know.

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hannahrosesmom

alwaysmyjennifer, thank you for the advice and no I'm not offended at all. I too grew up with abuse in the house which I feel has made me hypersensitive to his behavior. I have considered having the local mental health dept come take him and have him hospitalized. Last night he woke up from yet another of his "Jekyll and Hyde" 4 day sleep-a-thons and yet again expected me to be all warm and fuzzy with him. Again he complained that we never talk but doesn't want to hear that he needs to be home to do so. That is such an enormous issue with us, he doesn't feel he needs to come home or let me know where he's at. He gets angry with me because it upsets me when he disappears. When he was working thid last job, he didn't come home until after I went to bed and refused to get up in the morning until after I left and work all weekend the same hours. So where are we to have time to talk? He doesn't see anything wrong with refusing to get a job this past year, spending his time away from home for weeks on end and the house is falling down around my ears. He doesn't feel any responsibility or care that he hasn't/doesn't have an income for the past year. Most of the money we got from the insurance settlement went to paying back money owed to relatives that was borrowed to survive. I don't make anywhere near enough money to support us. Then I get the usual it's all my fault he doesn't come home because I'm such a b***h. Apparently it's wrong of me to expect him to help support the household, clean up after himself after he's been home all day making messes while I'm at work, or do any normal household upkeep. I don't appreciate coming home from work, cleaning up his dishes, picking up crap he's been into, doing the laundry, taking care of the animals, doing the shopping and trying to keep bills paid. Our lawn hasn't been mowed in months, I can't do it because he won't fix the mower he broke. I also take care of maintenance of Hannah's grave and her memorial garden at the school. I'm ranting again but I am beyond frustrated and hurt. Not only did I lose my Hannah but I'm going to lose everything else too. I just looked at the time and need to get in shower and get to work. Hubby will probably sleep all day again and when I get home I'm sure I'll hear what a horrible person I am for putting clothes away and doing dishes this morning before work. Am I wrong for feeling this way? did I lose something in the translation? I am at my wit's end. And I have asked him to leave many times but he won't go, says it's his house and he doesn't have to. Who is this man I married?

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Hannahroses mom: You are NOT wrong for feeling this way. If you have asked him to leave and he won't go...have you thought about taking legal action? Have him evicted? You can start seperation and have it conditional that he seek help prior to you looking at reconciliation. These are just options available to you...for money, there are always options, help is available if you need it to keep you in your house and food on the table, help get the utilities paid.

Mark: is there a way that Hannahroses Mom can force help on her husband? Even if he doesn't seem to be concidering suicide? I ask you because I believe you said your line of work is within this type of field.

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alwaysmyjennifer

Hannahrosesmom, this must be so heartbreaking for you. Please do NOT think you are that 'b' word. You are not. You happen to be a very dear lady, caring, loving, open, and grieving. I must repeat that no one has any right to treat another abusively. Ribitsmom raised a question, and depending on your state, you can petition the court for hospitalization. This doesn't help pay the bills, but if he's hospitalized, you are automatically eligible for public aid (whoopie) which can help some. Call the secretary of the county's family court judge, and ask how to seek mandated hospitalization, because you believe he will harm himself. From what you have written, he's showing dysthymia (a deep depression that can result in suicidal thinking and attempts). Taking straight legal action is very expensive, because you need to hire an attorney. Petitioning the court is simply asking a question, and letting the court decide what is best for your husband. However you go about this, I am here to help you in any way I can. My thoughts and prayers are with you. If you have any questions you'd like to ask privately, feel free to email me at intothenyt@yahoo.com. I'll help you all I can. Mark

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hannahrosesmom

Mark and Ribitsmom, Thank you both for the ideas of which I didn't know were available. I would have replied sooner but been feeling rather depleted lately. Had my mother-in-law for a couple weeks, the one year angel day of Hannah's death, then went to a grief conference 7 hrs from my home last weekend. I was also put in touch with a counselor through the local County mental health department. This wonderful woman is adjusting her schedule to meet with me in the evening so I don't miss any time from work. She has worked in the area of grief for 15 years and I feel very comfortable with her. The grief counselor I went to shortly after the accident was a bit too "shrink-ish" and annoyed the crap out of me.

Update on hubby. He's snapped out of the most recent Jekyll and Hyde syndrome, gotten things straightened out at his workplace and is back to work. He will not be putting in the long hours as before. He's kind of freaking me out like it's just hit him that he's screwed up big time in many areas and attempting to finally deal with Hannah's death. Personally I think aliens came and put someone else in his body and just going to keep my distance emotionally and act and speak as if nothing were awry. I just assume do that and avoid the fighting and "walking on eggs" around the house. When I feel it's safe to say something I will speak with him about going to a doctor for meds and seeing a counselor sometime in the future, preferably when the meds kick in and he calms down a bit. Until he does that on his own I'm keeping my walls up. I feel that, like an alcoholic, until he admits to himself he needs help and takes the necessary steps to deal with it, it's all just him saying what he thinks I need to hear. Jim I will keep your email address handy just in case. I would also appreciate your input as to this message. It's hard to think clearly on my own and it helps to hear what others know, think, suggest....

Peace to you,

Kim aka Hannah's mom

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Hannahs mom/Kim, I am so glad you posted, I was getting very worried about you. Please let us know how you are doing...you have children at home also, correct? How are the kids doing?

Denise

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hannahrosesmom

Today I'm going to take the plunge and seek legal advice as to how to get my husband out of the house. Yet another weekend has gone by with the Jekyll and Hyde syndrome, again he is unemployed, yesterday he wakes up from the syndrome and wants to be my buddy and whines cuz we don't talk. He fails to see the problem that he needs to be awake to talk. He fails to see that his unemployment is a problem and doesn't understand why it's so upsetting to me. We have to talk he says. How many times does he have to be told that this long continuing pattern of behavior is a problem? Again last night he says he has a problem with depression..yeah no ****! Still he continues to refuse to get help for it. How stupid am I to let him continue doing this emotional abuse to me? I had to go to my sisters' baby shower last Saturday which was extremely emotionally traumatizing for me. Not once did he show any compassion for me or my feelings of attending this event without Hannah. What was he doing all weekend? Sleeping. Not one word of support either before or after the shower.

did I mention that he completely blew off the Grief Conference I paid $100 per person to attend? He came up with some big line of bull about the car breaking down blah blah blah, only to find out a few days later it was a complete lie. I am so angry at not only him but myself for continuing to be his victim. This has to stop.

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hannahrosesmom,

Yes, you're absolutely right....this has to stop. And it looks like you're going to have to be the one to take any necessary steps to do that. I was in a poor marriage years ago ( drinking, abuses, lies, affairs, money problems, broken promises, excuses, blame ) and it ended after 7 years. Thank God, is all I can say now. The final decision was left up to me and although I deliberated for 2 years, I finally decided I couldn't go back to that kind of uncertainty and anxst. I've now been with my second partner for almost 20 years and while it's not a perfect marriage either, it beats the first one hands down. It sounds like your husband needs a lot of help, but your role is not that of counselor. However, you can't be a wife, either, in such a situation. You might try an little exercise that I found gave me my final answer: A counselor asked me to envision my husband approaching me as I sat on her couch and to note the feelings that brought up inside. Since I was starting to date ( we were separated during that 2 years of indecision ), she asked me to then do the same thing with someone else I was then seeing ( I realize you can't apply this second part, but am just explaining it here ). When I thought of my husband, I got a huge KNOT in my stomach - it felt just terrible. When I thought of my 'date', I felt warm and safe. That was IT for me. I filed for divorce within the week, realizing how much bad energy was wrapped around my marriage. I also realized I could never trust my husband with my feelings ever again. I wasn't prepared to waste another 7 years in counselling that may or may not 'take' with him. We'd tried that route before, and I got abused for daring to be honest. Mind you, the counselor was also not good at her job, but my husband refused to try anyone else, either. I'll tell you, since going into marriage with really low self-esteem, getting out of a bad one did more to boost that than anything I've ever done since.

This may not be the route for you, but I just wanted to share my own experience and offer my perspective for you to consider. All I know is, reading your postings on this just makes me shrink in horror...I couldn't put up with that for more than a month, and even then, there'd have to be extentuating circumstances to explain such abominable behaviour. While you are seeking legal advice, I'd also find out about and do whatever you could to financially prepare yourself for a future without him ( including those legal bills! ). I realize you're the main, or only, bread-winner, but it's still a good idea to get all your ducks in a row BEFORE you make any transparent moves you can't take back. And if he's prone to be violent too ( now I forget and can't see the older posts ), you should have a plan to deal with that as well...in fact, even if he isn't, it might be good insurance to find out what your options are anyway, just in case.

You're right ~ you don't have to be his victim, but only you can decide if you're willing to continue to be. In this case, that's YOUR job, not his. I wish you the best of luck in sorting this out in your own head and heart.

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hannahrosesmom

Swede1, thank you for your reply. I did check with a court advocate yesterday and they can't remove him from the house unless there's violence which, thankfully, has not happened. There are no rules against emotional abuse. I am just past a year into the grief process and don't know if I have what it takes to go through a divorce. In the back of my mind I do realize that I may not have a choice, with him not working there is no way I can afford the house and all else by myself. That uncertainty is driving my anxiety levels off the charts. I don't understand how a person can see all this happening, understands what's happening, yet refuses to get help and has the nerve to say they love you. Why does he keep saying "we" have to talk yet doesn't feel he needs to be awake for these "talks". He seems to feel that I need to initiate all these "talks" and fails to see that he is any part of the problem. He stays home and sleeps all day then when I get home I'm supposed to feel all warm and fuzzy and tell him my innermost feelings?? What planet is he from? He doesn't initiate any conversation until he snaps out of his Jekyll and Hyde syndromes and wants to be my best buddy....yeah whatever. Most the time he doesn't even know what day it is and doesn't get why I'm so angry all the time which he has voiced is "all in my head". I have a Dr appt tomorrow to get my antidpressant dosage raised, refill my Ambien and hopefully get my Xanax refilled. I have a Compassionate Friends meeting tomorrow night too so I can go sit in a safe and comfortable environment. I'm kind of stuck as to what to do or where to turn so I hope you don't mind if I continue to post my problems on here. I can't keep bitching about hubby to family and friends cuz I see the "why don't you do something about it" look in their eyes. They don't understand how hard it is to do anything so soon after losing my Hannah, I'm just starting to be able to breathe much less divorce my husband and lose my house full of memories I have with my kids. I look forward to hearing from you, thank you for listening and for your input.

peace to you,

Kim aka Hannah's mom

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hannahrosesmom,

Yes, I understand that. One can only do so much at any given time and having to deal with a terrible loss at the same time would be very, very difficult. That's why I suggested you start setting things up for yourself for the eventuality that you might leave at some point in the future. Just that setting things up would take quite awhile, so you have lots of time...unless, as you say, you end up not in control of that because of dwindling resources.

Of COURSE you can keep ranting about your situation here! I know that oftentimes that's JUST what you need to carry on with daily life - just some listening ears when those close to you won't hear. I'm glad, though, that he's not being violent as that would necessitate a hastier plan. It IS stupid that emotional abuse isn't yet considered ( by the courts anyway ) to be enough cause for action on their part. As my counselor said once, emotional abuse is often the MOST damaging kind, NOT physical abuse. I was surprised that this was known to be true among mental health professionals!

Another thought: does he have a regular doctor who you might talk to about his behaviour? It strikes me that he may be bi-polar or have one of those mental health conditions and might benefit from some medical intervention. So perhaps you could do some digging into what the health system might be able to do for you. I'm also thinking that a self-help group, such as might be available for mental health issues, might help give you the tools to live your life DESPITE your husband's nonsense. I'm just thinking that, as groups like Al-Anon ( for people living with an alcoholic ) tell you how to cope, how to change your thinking, etc., maybe there's another one for living with people from 'another planet', as you suggested. I'm not sure what category there'd be for something like this, but looking up self-help groups might net you something.

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alwaysmyjennifer

hannahrosesmom, my apologies for being away. My wife has been in intensive care. I carry a few college degrees, including social work. If you don't mind me asking, was your daughter a "daddy's girl"? If they were very close, he may not be as much bipolar as suffering from post traumatic event syndrome. This is much like post traumatic stress disorder, but brought on by a single event, like this or when a woman is raped (one of the most common causes). You can talk to his doctor about the situation, and let the doctor intervene. This will keep you out of the picture, and away from retribution. I'll tell you the same as many others. In this region of the country, it's fairly common to prescribe Effexor or Zoloft for the depression, along with Xanax for the anxiety, which seem to work well with each other. These keep a person in a good emotional balance. Along with that, a prescription for Ambien to help sleep is used. This decreases the likelihood of an explosive situation caused by fatigue. Depression has its enemies: when the person is hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. Avoiding these conditions helps the person deal with the depression better. Have you thought of mandated hospitalization? Ask your attorney.

For you, emotional abuse is the one that doesn't easily heal. Our bodies can heal from injuries (even gunshots, in my case), and we can also heal physically from sexual attacks. We can't easily heal from emotional abuse, and in some cases, healing doesn't happen. This is the tragedy. No matter how you are being abused, you are a person, a precious life, and you shouldn't be mistreated. Nobody has the right to abuse another person, no matter what the reason or excuse. If you need to get out of the relationship, you may be better off having a court order for his removal, so you keep the house. Just a thought. He will know where you are, if he happens to get violent, but if that's not an issue, try to keep the house. If he's violent, it's not worth getting seriously hurt for, and you may want to think about getting as far away from the situation as possible.

I hope this gives you a little help. Please release your pain and frustrations here. You need a release, and talking about it helps.

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hannahrosesmom

Hannah was not a daddy's girl I'm sorry to say. My husband alweays found "other" things more important than spending time with me and the kids. We have had many fights over the years about how much time he spent away from the house, seemed his friends and there needs came first. The last two years before Hannah was killed my husband took a job that required travel versus the one that didn't. He was out on the road when Hannah died, I was home alone. The job he had for 9 years prior to that he spent all his free time with his sleazy friends and would get very annoyed when he had to be involved with something that had to do with the kids such as band concerts, plays, etc. He would get angry with me when I wouldn't go and hang out at the bars with him and his buddies and instead I chose to stay home with the kids. The kids and I became extremely close because their dad wasn't around much and after a while they both got disgusted with him and his behavior and like me, learned to live without his presence. Our son is still very angry and disgusted with his father and doesn't want anything to do with him if he can help it. It hurt our son to see his father disappear on his motorcycle for days and weeks on end or when he was home he would sleep for days and weeks on end. For a full year he made no attempt to look for employment. What little money we got for a settlement got pissed away by him. When I finally got the nerve and put some of what was left into a personal account he got very very angry with me. He loaned the last $1500 of that money to a "friend".

My husband admits he has problems with depression but flat out refuses to do anything about it. He doesn't feel he is at fault for any of the problems we are having. He just casme out of the most recent Jekyll and Hyde syndrome on Tuesday and now wants to be my best buddy and gives me the old "you won't talk to me" BS. He fails to see where his week long sleep a thons are a problem and now that he's awake for a day or so he's expecting me to feel all warm and fuzzy and want to work everything out. Yeah right. How about he sees a Dr, get a job, and assume some responsibility around the house that is falling down around our heads. He also feels that I'm supposed to be the one initiating all conversations. Last night he said, I was awake last night and you didn't say a word. I said to him, well how am I to know you're awake when you're curled up on the couch in a blanket and you've been sleeping for the past week? If you have something you feel we need to talk about you could have initiated the conversation yourself. He didn't want to hear that, got angry and stormed off. Evidently he feels he doesn't need to be awake for these talks or that his sleeping like this all the time carries no relevance. Of course don't even bring up the fact that he's not interested in searching for or obtaining employment. He doesn't want to hear it.

I have another Dr appt today to get my antidepressant dosage upped and hopefully get the Xanax and Ambien refilled. Have a Compassionate Friends meeting tonight, thank god, but will be checking back in later. Gotta go punch in and get to work. Thank you both for your insight.

Kim

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alwaysmyjennifer

Kim, the picture I get is this is such a long term problem, you and your son are in a situation of terrible emotional abuse. Please, keep talking to whoever you must, so this can stop. Most cities have abuse hotlines, which you can find by asking someone at your county's social service office. Call them, and get them involved so you don't get hurt worse. You're a great Mom, and a pretty terrific person to be so strong. If he refuses to get the help he needs, he's hurting you and your son. If he refuses to give up drinking for you, he's neglecting you and your son. It sounds like he wants to travel and be away from you so he can continue his alcohol problem. This leads to apathy in a family and tears it apart. Do you think this is also abusive? I do. You're better, and worth more than this. Please, Kim, break this cycle as quickly as you can. It may require a court order, but get it. Even if you must ask for mandated hospitalization, you need to stop what he's doing to you. Whether you keep him in your home or not, this is your choice. But he needs to face the reality of what he is doing to his wife and son. He needs to get help. Take care of yourself, by trying to eat and sleep the best you can. Give yourself a little special treatment, even if it's a long hot bubble bath. It's one of those little things that can help relax you.

You are in my thoughts, (worries), and prayers. Mark

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Kim,

I have to agree...this is much more long-standing than I first realized. It could even be JUST from the drinking ( a scenario I know all too well, with both my father and my first husband ), so he might be alcoholic, in which case Al-Anon could help you to see what you have to do for yourself. If he IS alcoholic, having him go on other drugs will only make things worse, as an addictive personality will abuse whatever substance is available. I really think, despite the extreme hardship this would cause, that you either need to attend a self-help group and take on a different attitude OR work towards getting out of this, as it's not going to improve without some big changes, and those are going to have to come from you, in whichever areas. If you still love him, your attitude will have to be one of those changes, but this can only come with education, support, relearning, and likely counseling. If you don't, then why hang on? And in either case, your husband's continuing 'sickness' will just end up destroying YOU as well, if you don't make some changes.

I know how hard it is to face these kinds of facts and situations, and how frightening it is for others to be telling you things are THAT dire. I also know people don't make changes until they're truly READY to inside, until the pain of NOT making them is worse than living with what's already familiar, so I can only give my opinion and hope some of it will help you think further. I can tell you, too, that much lesser warning signals have been cause for my own counselor to tell me my current marriage was pretty much doomed if my husband and I didn't make at least SOME changes. It's just a matter of time when all love has gotten buried under the problems and no one is addressing the root causes. It's even tougher to mend if only one person is willing to work at bringing things into the light to be worked through. Very sad, but true. Whether you realize it or not, in some ways you are feeding into these problems - this isn't an insult, it just can't be helped when one isn't aware enough of what's really going on, both with one's partner and with yourself, deep down. And one also CAN'T be aware of one's partner's inner realities when there's NO communication, much less destructive communication. I feel for you and your situation, truly. I know it hurts to find out others think your marriage is really poor, but if the facts aren't faced, then the denial runs rampant and there's NO hope for improvement.

By comparison, my parents' marriage was terrible ( and I, as their daughter, suffered greatly because of it ), but in some key areas, yours sounds even worse. While my father never acted much like a father, and did travel a fair amount, or stayed either at work or away late with HIS buddies ( often drinking, or worse, with other women ), at least he worked hard ( a workaholic as well ) so that we had the material life mainly taken care of....although he did drive us into bankruptcy a few times, too. This was about the only measure of (false) security I felt as a child and young adult. So to not have ANY of that.....I wouldn't want to be subject to a life such as what your husband is forcing upon you both. I don't know how old or young your son is, but perhaps you need to think of him and his mental health, if you can't go through with this just for yourself? I worry for you, too, like Mark. Oh, and BTW, if you've complained to him a 'million' times already about the lack of communication and it hasn't worked....why do you think repeating that complaint yet another time might work THIS time? You might try seriously asking yourself that question the next time it comes up.

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hannahrosesmom

yesterday morning I left for work after an unpleasant exchange of hostility with hubby. Went to my 3:00 dr appt then went home to change clothes for my Compassionate Friends meeting. I got home a bit before 4 and hubby was nowhere to be seen, but he had court for a ticket yesterday and I'd left him money to pay for the ticket. He didn't come home last night, one of many. What I hate the most about "those" nights is that it makes it difficult for me to sleep and I have to get up in the morning and go to work. I guess I feel I'm waiting for the cops to come knocking on my door like the way they did the night Hannah died. He knows I have issues with him not coming home or calling if he's not coming home, it's unnerving for me. The night Hannah died was the ONE night she didn't call to let me know her plans. She had been playing in Pep Band at the football game that night and was supposed to call and let me know what she was doing afterwards. I spent the whole summer with him pulling this crap. This morning I hate him.

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hannahrosesmom,

I'm so sorry your husband is being such an a**. Reading about what he does takes me right back to my first marriage with so many of the same things. Arguments, 'business' trips where he wouldn't be registered at the hotel he was supposed to be at, unexplained credit card charges ( like whopping amounts for a dinner for 'one'), not coming home at night....followed by the blame getting tossed MY way, as if I'd done some nebulous 'something' to deserve this crappy treatment. I remember when I finally caught him kissing another woman in a bar's parking lot, then followed him in my car all around the city. He knew I was following him and drove into a cop station...I confronted him. The next morning he took me out for breakfast, as if that would 'fix' it all! He couldn't even seem to understand ( read: didn't WANT to! ) that I needed him to TALK about everything that had happened. We never did and it killed me slowly inside. That was worse than the physical and verbal abuse. It was still about 2 years from then until we finally split, after having just bought a house ( I paid for over half of everything, though I was making about 1/4 of his salary ). Then he kept asking me for money every now and then...I never gave him a dime, thank goodness. Just thinking about it makes my blood pressure rise. The day he signed the divorce papers ( I paid for that, too, of course ) was SUCH a relief. For about another 2 years after that, I'd still get the occasional item in the mail from people/companies after him for some debt he'd never paid. Even his last employer was after him for not returning the extremely costly sample supply kit he'd been issued - don't think they ever recovered it. What a nightmare it all was. He played the classic game of treating me terribly, then apologizing and being 'good' for a couple of weeks, then right back into the BS. Our friends knew nothing of what was going on and I was SO isolated. I felt I couldn't even talk to my Mom about it much because she hadn't wanted me to marry him in the first place - saw right through him ( probably because he was so like my father ). I was embarrassed, humiliated, feeling like I was nothing more than dirt.

I pray to God I'll never have to go through anything like that ever again. And ironically, it wasn't until years later, when my Mother was found to be alcoholic, that I learned all about alcoholism and could have picked my life with him right out of the reading material. We still spoke occasionally through the years ( he could STILL be wonderful WHEN he was good! lol! ) and I could tell, even in his new marriage, that he was still drinking. Yet he'd be on the phone BRAGGING about how he hadn't had even a beer for months! He still played all the same games and thought he was fooling me. It wasn't worth my while to even bother confronting him - I just didn't fall into his traps anymore, much to his chagrin. After my Mom passed away ( and so had his, a few years earlier, indirectly from alcoholism, as had his dad ) and I called to let him know, I found out his second marriage had failed, too, and his ex didn't even know where he was anymore. Such a sad circle, but if someone doesn't want to get off the merry-go-round, it only continues, and escalates. For all I know, he's dead somewhere now....or remarried and living another fool's paradise again, hurting some other poor woman. That bad marriage taught me a LOT and for that I'm thankful...but I hope I've learned those lessons thoroughly, lest I have to RElearn them again through someone else in my lifetime! Hell on earth, it was. But now I get to talk about it if I want, without fear of retribution...so I can breath again. I literally break out in a cold sweat when I think of how I might not have gotten out of that situation...but for the Grace of God, Who knew what I had to learn in order to leave.

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alwaysmyjennifer

Swede1, the abuses of alcohol effect the whole family. Being the kid in one of these "families", I saw my share of nonsense. Mostly, the intoxication led to wild fights, which led to foster care fo us children. I'm happy to hear you freed yourself, and still don't have involvement. My prayer is for you to enjoy the rest of your life free from such pain.

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alwaysmyjennifer

Kim, I want you to know that you are welcome to write as much about anything as you need. We're here to help you, even if we just sit and listen. But, we care that you are here, and we will help you in your healing. His antics of staying out all night add to your pain, and you don't need to endure his ways. This addiction to alcohol is tearing into your heart and your marriage. I don't want to upset you or hurt your feelings, but from a man's perspective, it looks like he's already given up on his wedding vows.

Try to give yourself a moment for what you want, and what you need. Take good care of yourself, please. Be sure to eat and rest. If you need anything, please feel free to ask, and we'll do all we can for you. Our thoughts and prayers rest with you. Mark

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Hi this is the first time i've been on this board. I usually write on loss of a newborn as I just had a miscarriage in July. This is my second marriage. We've been together almost a year. I have two kids from my first marriage. Its been 6 months since I miscarried and we have to decided to separate. I was in the hospital twice due to complications after and with all the stuff that we've been gone through since, we barely have a marriage. My husband thinks that I should pay rent and buy my own food and gas. He feels that I am not pulling my weight even though I give him money to help out and am only working part-time. Even when I do give him money and put gas in the tank he talks like I did nothing. Its a constant battle. Especially trying to deal with the loss of the baby on top of that. His son just left in September to live with his mother and she's giving him a hard time about his visits because of me. She doesn't feel he should be with anyone so she can run his life some more. When I call him a work he gets really rude and hangs up in my face. Its like living with Jeckkal and Hyde. Any advice. Christine.

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alwaysmyjennifer

Christine, I think you are facing a difficult situation here. I completely understand the pain of miscarriages, as my wife and I faced eleven of them. I'm sorry you have lost your baby. I'm happy to know you are here, where there are many caring people.

You know us men are wired backwards, and we think so differently. It sounds to me like he's facing a lot of stress, from his job, his ex, and the pain a dad feels losing a baby too. Would he be willing to seek marriage counseling with you? If yes, you may regain and add to all you regain in your marriage. If no, then you are facing a difficult situation. He went through a divorce already, so he may think it's easier to run from you than try to repair any damages. Sadly, some people get into this train of thought after a divorce, then it hinders building a healthy marriage later. The separation may give him time to cool off a little, and seek marriage counseling. It may also be a negative, and push him further into that train of thought (if he should already be there). You can't make the choices for him, and he must consider how much he loves you, and if it's enough to rebuild your marriage. If he wants to rebuild it with you, please insist on marriage counseling, and with someone who has the best reputation. This is your ally. My best thoughts and prayers are with you. Let us know how you are doing.

Mark

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Hi its Christine again. Thank you for the advice. My husband and I have recently separated. We are trying to work things out somehow. Its very hard. I'm staying with my sister for now. I start counselling this week. He still has no idea why I left or why I'm so angry. He thinks I have postpartum depression and I need to get help. I'm sure I have it a bit but is he not included in this. I didn't have the baby myself. Anyways I have no clue where I'm going from here. My daughter wants to come live with me so I might try that and see how things go from there . My husband says he is considering letting me come home, like he has all the control. Should it not be my decision. I don't think any of this clicks on him. I've only been gone a week and he's already considering moving someone in to help pay the rent. Anyways maybe a man's opinion would help me see things from his point of view because right now his nonchalant attitude is not helping at all. Any advice. Christine.

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Christine...I am not a man so can only give advice or opinion from a womans view point.

You didn't mention if your husband was willing to go to counceling; is this something that you need to do on your own? Not that it won't help if you are the only one going, but if it is marriage issues (aside from the grief that you are feeling)then your husband should participate. It sounds as though your husband is very hung up on money and who puts in what share.

Maybe give a little more information and I can give better help.

Denise

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Hi its Christine again. Thank you for replying. I am still at my sisters. I start my councelling this week. And no, my husband doesn't feel he needs it. He feels that I am sick and I need help emotionally. And yes, he is hung up way too much on the money part. I asked him how he could expect someone that works half the amount of hours that he does and makes a 1/4 of the pay to bail him out of his money issues. He says that if we're partners then I should pay half. I agree if I made the same amount but should it not go by my income. I have student loans to pay back from school and yet he assumes that they don't affect my income. Now he says that its his decision whether he wants me to come back depending on whether I can afford the rent. He said if I was renting in town I'd still have to pay my rent whether I was in the hospital or not. But he's not my landlord. I needed to use the car for work because he purchased a new one for himself and he said if I paid for snow tires for the new one at $700.00 a shot, he'd let me have the old car. I had to work Saturday night and he was babysitting, and he said to find my own ride home. I'm starting to think that maybe he only wanted me there for the rent and the babysitting his kid. I really don't think it mattered who moved in. We were only together 3 months when I moved in. I know, stupid. I don't know what I was thinking. I thought it would help me too but apparently I was wrong. I'm not sure where to go from here. I want to go home but not out of the goodness of his heart but because he cares for me and misses me. And I keep thinking he'll say never mind about the money, we'll get by, but I never hear it. I think I need to get aplace of my own somehow. Whenever I talk about the money, it makes me so angry. What would he do if I wasn't there. If you can't afford your house, then you sell and get a cheaper one, don't you. You don't turn around and buy a new car. Any more advice whether to stay or go, Christine.

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Christine, I think you are doing all the right things. Get going with the counseling, bring all of this out and hopefully the counselor with be able to help you find the answers you need. I would rent a place on your own, that you can afford and if your husband wants to share rent you tell him this is what your budget is and that is all you are paying.

I find it difficult to understand his attitude as I have never been in that type of position. I do need to work only because my husband doesn't like having to work when I don't. I do understand this...but only because we have been married for 21 years and this is the way it has been. That said, we were married for 10 years before I ever went to work, but I was home doing the "wifely" things; raising 2 kids, keeping house, laundry, shopping, cooking...you name it. Now that I work, I still do all of those things, with little or no help in the upkeep of the house.

My thought is that it takes communication and compromise. If you can understand WHY your husband is the way he is it sometimes makes it easier to work with…you then have a base for communication; you can discuss why he thinks you should be paying half the mortgage, grocery bill, phone, car…whatever it is. If you are cleaning, cooking, shopping, paying bills, doing yard work…whatever it is that you do while he is working and you aren’t then you can work out a compromise. He would need to pay a shopping service to grocery shop, he would need to pay a chef to cook, a housekeeper to keep house, an accountant to do the bills. He can look at this as YOUR contribution to the household finances. I figure my husband makes much less money than I do (when he actually brings in about $100,000 more than me in cash), if you take into account all the things he would have to pay a service for that I do around the house.

These are just my thoughts, I don’t know your relationship other than what you have wrote, and obviously it is much more complex than what I have put into this reply. For one thing you are in a new relationship with your husband, you have lost a baby…these things are life altering. In any new relationship it takes years to work out something that is exceptable to you both. It is trial and error. But above all you need to be able to talk.

Hope this helps and I didn’t step on toes.

Denise

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Hi, my name is Tonia and i have never been in this message board before I am useally in suicide suvivors, but the truth is my marriage is falling apart and it has been for along time but niether one of us will do anything about it well i won't because I am affraid of being alone and i don't think i can do it by myself I have been with him since i was 17 and I am now 25 we have been married for 3 years and only split up once and well during that time wich was only for 2 months he slept with someone else someone he met over this damn computer and he said we were seperated so it was ok me I said we were still married and trying to work things out so it wasn't and well ever since then i haven't been able to trunst him and he is always on this damn thing so i still wounder what he's doing. He never compliments me and never has anything nice to say to me unless you think bitch is a nice thing to say and worse of all we haven't slept in the same bed for over a month or slept with each other. He makes everything to be my fault he says i act like his mother and never let him go and do anything which last i checked i never had a gun to his head. then he says he don't like doing things with me because there boring well my husbands idea of fun is bar hopping and drinking and concerts but he said he don't want to take me to concerts with him wich makes me not trust him even more cause i know what happens at concertsand the people he wants to do things with are either drug addicts or men that i know cheat on there wives and he wounders why i get mad at him then he just makes it look like its all my fault that he can't go anywhere. then he tells me all the time that i mess everybodys good time up and i think im perfect wich in all truth that is how he feels about his self he is always putting people down and making his self look good to others. Then i asked him if he could just do things with me and he said he's not a movie and dinner type of person witch is a lie cause when i was 17 and he was 25 all he did was take me places like that he would always show me off to his buddies. Then we had kids and things changed i became more involved as a mother and he thought i changed so much cause i don't do drugs or drink and i would rather be able to wake up with my kids the next morning and well since my kids were born i made him stope doing drugs and well it has been 5 years since he stopped but i feel some times he is still getting high. He doesn't drink that offten anymore hardley ever but he is also more of an asshole. He has another son from another girl who he was with 3 years before me and well they live 2000 miles away and he left his son when he was 3 years old and went to see him a couple times a year well now all of a sudden he has this new family (us) and can't see him as much because it cost too much and well i tell him when ever he has the extra money to go and well instaed he goes and spends it something stupid and then when we argue about something he blames me for not being able to see his son which isn't true. Its like Im a target for him to have something to blame his whole life on. And for the past 3 years i haven't had any self a steem and i feel so ugly and stupid he makes me feel the worst. and like he said today I don't think there are any feeling between us anymore wich I think he wants to end it but he just like to see me hurt. most of are problems and fights start off with his family but they are so too faced it will come back and hit him right were it counts. Well thank you all for letting me get some of this off my chest i think i feel alittle better and best wishes to all of you.

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Tigerz4me2-Wow, that was a lot. It sounds as though there are many issues that need work and I would assume you are thinking; “Where do I start”? Everything that I say is my own opinion, I am not a doctor, I have no background in counseling, nothing but 21 years of marriage as experience. We started dating at 16, married at 19 and I am now 40.

My first piece of advice would be to seek counseling. Aside from that…marriage takes 2 people that are willing to work at it. You need to be able to talk, you can also argue, in a non violent way, not name calling, and get your issue on the table and work at a solution.

You need to sit your husband down and say; “This is what I am feeling, this is what I feel like when you go out, this is what I am worried about…” Ask him before starting the topics if he could calmly discuss with you these issues that you have problems with. Allow him to CALMLY bring his issues to the table too. But be willing to listen to him and think about what he is saying. Ask questions…why do you think that, why do you feel that? Compromise.

I have no problems with going to a bar, but when we were married we agreed that we would never go to a bar without the other…in fact, this was something my husband stated, I would have been fine going without him, but it made him uncomfortable (girls in bars aren’t safe) so I didn’t go without him, but said it needed to be a 2 way street. So, he never goes without me. That said, there are different types of “going to the bar”, there are times for work we can’t get out of it, or I can go with my brother for dinner and a drink or something on that order. All that said, you don’t care for bars so you shouldn’t be forced to go to one. Stand your ground, tell him what your concerns are when he is in a bar and you aren’t and see if there is a way you can compromise.

If you are concerned that he is seeing others, snoop. There is always evidence. But, don’t let your insecurity get in the way. You need to feel good about yourself. In fact, that should have been the first thing I said, I feel that it is most important. You need to feel good about you, if you don’t like you then you become a doormat.

Good luck and continue to post.

Denise

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Hi this is Christine. I have just got off work. I'm very tired. I wrote not too long ago that I was staying with my sister. My husband and I are discussing whether I want to move home again. Its very complicated. I am just grateful that we are actually able to discuss anything at this point. I went to councelling. They say I am suffering from post traumatic stress disorder from losing the baby. Which is understandable. Anyways things are looking up a little. To Tigers4me2: Not sure i put that right. I used to go out with a man that enjoyed the bar scene a little too much. Every Thursday him and his buddies disappeared to the bar and did lord knows what. When I first started seeing him, I went. But when he didn't want to be bothered with me, he started going himself. To me, any decent man who cares about his girlfriend or wife shouldn't be in the bars without her, period. Theres too much temptation, especially when their drinking. You boyfriend or husband may be the best husband who says he would never cheat, but theres always women there and they'll play on their feelings when their drinking. I always like the one who says, oh shes just a friend. Its usually just a friend that they turn to when things go wrong. If he respects you, he shouldn't be there. And frankly, you don't need a man to bolster your self-esteem. You raise those kids, work, and take care of a house. Thats a lot of things to be proud of. Its not easy raising two kids and working or going to school alone. I know, i did it. But its amazing what you can do when you have to. Your stronger than you think. He needs to understand that. You're capable of raising those kids. Be proud of who you are and don't let a man determine it. If he can't see that, than he's not the right one. You need someone who cares for your choices, and makes you feel special. Theres only one life. I need to listen to myself right now and take my own advice. Good luck Christine.

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Hey everyone... I'm new to this so I guess I will start by telling you my story. I got married Sept.18,2004. We came back from our honeymoon, and moved into a new house. The same night as we moved in, I got a call from my brother. I live in Kentucky, and he was in the Coast Guard in Maine. It was just a regular phone conversation, with lots of sarcasm and joking, we were best friends. The next day we got a call from my step dad, he was crying and told us to drive up to my moms. I knew my life would change from there, I knew something was wrong, but never guess in a million years it would be my brother. As soon as we got out of the car, I knew, people were standing outside, crying, when my mom came out holding a big framed picture of my brother- his military photo. I knew then. But when I heard my step dad say "They think he hung himself". I could not believe it. He had recently broke up with his girlfriend, and took this very hard, he liked her, but she was mean to him. Its been over a year, and I still obsess over it at times. I miss my brother more than anything, and I feel horrible that maybe while I was talking to him about how happy I was to be getting married, all that time, he was miserable over his girlfriend, and I just made it worse. It upsets me that it was 2 weeks after I got married. My husband and him weren't very close. My brother stayed with us for a couple nights, but they never got to know each other. I have a hard time talking to my husband about my brother, because I feel like its MY loss, not his. Is anyone going through this? I can't seem to let him go... and it's making me a miserable person and causing my marriage to just go down the drain. I love my husband very much, but Im just angry that my little brother, whom we adored each other, is gone, and I just can't get used to it. Any advice would help!!

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Kristing: I am so sorry for the loss of your brother. I too have a brother that is my best friend and would be lost without him.

Is it possible that if you tried sharing your feelings openly with your husband that he would surprise you with support? I ask this because I sometimes wonder if we tend to feel that the support wouldn't be there due to assumption that your husband didn't care for your brother the way you did he wouldn't understand. I'm sure your husband loves you very much and would not want you to hurt and not being able to share your feelings with him would be hurtful. Often it is a misunderstanding that puts up a wall. Your husband didn't know your brother the way that you did, maybe if you share past experiences between you and your brother with your husband he can see the things you loved so much about your brother.

I am not in your relationship, so can only give thoughts based on what you wrote. I have not been in this position but I did lose a daughter and my husband and I handle it very differently and we do need to call a time out every once in a while and try to get on the same page. We each had a different relationship with our daughter and are grieving in different ways. Very often we don't say anything which could be confused with lack of support because we are afraid to hurt/upset the other while grieving.

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Hi,

I lost my best friend in the entire world to The Station Nightclub Fire.

It will be 3 years this Feb 20th. Here it is..... I talk about my best friend so much that it is starting to affect my relationship and friendships.

What should I do?

-Annie

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Hi my name is Tonia I wrote something in here a week ago and well thank you all for your support and help. i wish i could say things are getting better but there not i hate to be so blunt but my husband is ruining my holidays so bad. I am 1000 miles away from my family and i misss them so much and they miss me soo much and this time of year it is even harder to cope. I just got a box of presants from my family to day and when i seen my mom sent some for me i cryed I just miss the old days when i was younger and didn't have all this pain. Well a year ago my brother committed suicide and we were soo close and I am useally talking in that message board but really ever since then things between me and my husband have been preety bad well because when i first had found out the news of it well i was ready and all packed to take the 18 hour drive and well knowing how bad i was hurting and feeling would you believe he wouldn't even go with me and be there for me that hurt sooo bad i had to take that long drive by my self and when i got there my whole family was all messed up over this and they hade everyone there for them and I had noone i was so very hurt he couldn't even go to my own brothers wake. I have not forgiven him for that and well i am still not over my brother and well about 8 months ago i brought something up and he asked "isn't about time you got over it " I could of killed him well his dad passed away in june and guess what i took that 18 hour drive up there to be with him. Every time we fight or argue make some coment that if i want to leave then doit when I never say that i want to I think it is him that wants it but it is never him that leaves all the other times it has allways been me and then he calls me and says he misses me and loves me and wants me to come home and thinking things are gonna be better that he has changed i do go back. I just don't know what to do I feel so ashamed of my self he makes me hate my self he is allways putting me down and I am affraid for my kids he has never really hurt them he has done some mean things to my daughter that i don't aprove of he is more rough on her and she is only 4 just a baby but he think she should know every thing and listen to what ever he say's what 4 year old does that. There is just so much bad and I don't know why i can't just leave him. He act's like he hates me but when he wants some well you know then he's nice till he gets it then a few days later he is right back at being mean to me to me. He has something really wrong with him I really think he needs help but he will never get it. Well thank you for letting me share this with all of you it help me some to talk about it because i can't talk with him because all he cares about is hisself.

Thanks so much Tonia,

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Hello and Merry Christmas to all. It is Christine and my husband has gone to spend xmas with his family. So I was alone for Xmas morning which sucks but is kind of nice. My children are coming for dinner later, which is nice. All I can say is you can't change someone else if they don't want to change. You just have to take care of yourself and your children and change whatever you can for you and them. Each year will get better if you try to positively change yourself. You are your best friend and if you don't take care of you, who will your children come too. Take care and be thankful that you have them. I thank God that I still have my children, even if I have no marriage anymore. They are what pull me through the holidays. Well have a Good Xmas, everyone and take care.

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KayleyM~you are so right, you are the only one that can make life better for you and your children. Above all, make sure the children are safe.

Tiger~If I remember correctly, you are in a very new marriage, have dealt with the loss of your brother and now the loss of your mother-in-law. What an awful start to something that should be joyful and wonderful.

Within a marriage we should always support each other, be there for each other, and understand each other. This is very difficult because we can’t force the spouse to do the things that we need that person to do to allow us to feel secure in the marriage. We can’t force a spouse to have deep meaningful conversation, we can’t force a spouse to understand the hurt, or anger that we feel over something that we are going through. But, what we can do is teach our spouse by example. If we are there for them, listen when they need to talk, speak our feelings in concise language then they might learn by that example. This sounds almost demeaning, but teach our spouse like we would our child…by example.

It is so easy to sit here and type this out, but so difficult to actually put it into motion. When you are in the “heat of the moment” or going through the feelings that we go through from time to time, it is difficult to step back and think of all the factors that are in play at the moment.

On Christmas Eve I backed my husband’s new truck into another vehicle, my husband was mad and pouted all night, with a house full of company. It ticked me off and I was nasty to him. What I should have done was stopped and thought about where his attitude was coming from.

1. This was our first celebration since we lost our daughter, so an emotional roller coaster

2. We had a house full of company for a week, very stressful

3. My husband had just come back from Australia (20 day trip), he was tired

4. My son had been in the hospital for 2 days, very stressful

5. We are in the middle of a remodel mess, very stressful

So, my point is that there is always something that may be triggering the reactions that we get, but at the moment we don’t stop to think, we are just upset with the situation and we react in bad ways also.

Denise

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I agree that peoples attitudes come from their experiences. My children hit a stop sign after sliding on black ice Christmas Day. Thank God they were fine. And then one of the girls at work's husband got killed 2 days ago. So we're going to a funeral tomorrow. My husband has decided not to come with me because his 9 year old son will be home. I asked if he could get a babysitter and he said no.

It would be so much easier to put into motion everything you say about husbands. But when they never consider your side, then whats the point. It has to work both ways. I think its good advice though. Lifes like a big soap opera, don't you think. Very complicated. Christine.

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Hi I hope everyone had a nice christmas mine was ok for what can be exspected I had to work. well thank you for the advice denise, I understand most of it but don't take this the wrong way all i hear is you making excusses for your husband and i know he was under alot of stress but what about you make some excusses for your self for once why can't he see your pain and help you get through that. That is all I want is for our husbands to worry about us for once instead of there selves. You say to listen when he has something to say well I do all the time and it about work or bowling or being on this stupid computer playing poker I am tired of hearing this crap I can't listen to anymore of it because when I am ready to talk about our problems or how I feel or even my work he ignores me or calls be a name and says all I think about is my self how can he sit there and belive his self. Ok here is your exsample things have gone good for 2 days wwll last night we decided to rent a movie to watch together so I went and got the movie and I even got a man movie that band camp movie well whatever and I got pizza well when i got home he was on the computer playing poker well i put the kids to bed and told him the movie was about to start and you know what he said don't be mad but i forgot there was a ternament tonight now come on how could i not be mad he put a damn poker game before me and even tho he new how upset i was he still played it and i watched the movie all by myself. well this is the best part after the poker game and the movie we went to bed and you know what he wanted to do well at first i said hell no to my self but then i got smart and said ok for myself and well i did things that my old husband couldn't handle and let me say i fell a sleep pretty early last night and made him feel so small about his self and i hate to say it but i felt great about it for once he was the one getting put down. like I said before my husband is 8 years older then me and he is only 32 so that makes me pretty young still so I can still have a comeback and that is what I am gonna base the rest of this marriage on i know it is wrong but like most of you say i need to start thinking of my self right.

Tonia,

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I lost my mother this year. I kept myself so busy for the first few months that I can't even really remember them. Within the past couple of months however, have begun to feel angry and annoyed with everything about my husband. He is the sweetest, kindest man I've ever known and loves me more than anything. It just seems that everything he says or does annoys me now. I was sitting at work one day when out of nowhere, a thought came into my head...."do I even love him anymore?" I was so shocked that I could even think that...there hasn't been a reason to not love him. We recently went on vacation and I can honestly say that I didn't have a good time. I spent a couple of days feeling so annoyed and being mean to him. I can't help but wonder if it's the grief that is making me feel this way or some underlying feelings that I never realized that are now coming out. He asked me a couple of weeks ago if WE were ok. I told him "I don't know". He asked if he did something wrong and I told him that he didn't. He's mentioned lately that I've been mean to him. I don't know why I'm pushing him away like this. I wonder if I just need a break to sort things out, but am so scared to even think of being on my own and can't imagine the pain it would cause him and our families. Is this some sort of normal part of the grieving process or is this a totally separate issue??????? Has anyone else here experienced anything similar to this?

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I lost my mother this year. I kept myself so busy for the first few months that I can't even really remember them. Within the past couple of months however, have begun to feel angry and annoyed with everything about my husband. He is the sweetest, kindest man I've ever known and loves me more than anything. It just seems that everything he says or does annoys me now. I was sitting at work one day when out of nowhere, a thought came into my head...."do I even love him anymore?" I was so shocked that I could even think that...there hasn't been a reason to not love him. We recently went on vacation and I can honestly say that I didn't have a good time. I spent a couple of days feeling so annoyed and being mean to him. I can't help but wonder if it's the grief that is making me feel this way or some underlying feelings that I never realized that are now coming out. He asked me a couple of weeks ago if WE were ok. I told him "I don't know". He asked if he did something wrong and I told him that he didn't. He's mentioned lately that I've been mean to him. I don't know why I'm pushing him away like this. I wonder if I just need a break to sort things out, but am so scared to even think of being on my own and can't imagine the pain it would cause him and our families. Is this some sort of normal part of the grieving process or is this a totally separate issue??????? Has anyone else here experienced anything similar to this?
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