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      Hi all,  I'm sure you've noticed some changes in the forums. We've again had to do some updates, so that's why things may look a little different. Nothing major should have changed.  Also, we are going to start adding advertisements sensitive to our community on the boards. This is something we are experimenting with, and we will certainly make sure they are in the best interests of everyone. We want to make sure our forums continue to stay accessible and cost free to all of our members, and this is a way to ensure this.  If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to privately message me or email me at Konnie@beyondindigo.com.  As always, we will be here with you, ModKonnie
momofJustin

Loss of an Adult Child

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Sherry.. I’m going to take your advice and try to at least pack away the few Xmas decorations I had up.  I just can’t seem to get off the couch. But of course there is a hockey game on now so that’s my excuse.  Those couple baby steps I’ve made....all gone. No my family are not here for me , but that’s no different then the last six years, except this time it is verbal and physical assault.  I don’t know if I told you but they had a burial after the service but it was only for a few....I wasn’t invited or told about it.  Found out when I asked the minister. Thanks for your understanding here.

gretchen. That collage is beatiful.  Is it stain glassed.  Do you sell your art.  I wish I had your talent.  Please post more if you have it. I love to see it.  This is such a crappy time of year and with Kira’s birthday coming I feel the countdown on already.  

Hearthurt.  That foggy then clear headed thing seems to come and go.  It really can be two steps forward then one back.  There is no right or wrong way to grief and definitely no time line.  What ever u feel like doing or not doing is right for you.

 

 

 

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I believe you are right....it is incredibly annoying to have people tell me to "get over it" and things like that. I hear the things that Billy used to say and at times I find me saying the same things. One of his favorite pieces of music is "Carmina Burana" by Karl Orff. I can listen to that piece, no problem.  My degree is in music and his tastes were as eclectic as mine. I used to sing "May it Be" to him when he couldn't sleep. I tried listening to it and couldn't without falling apart. The same is true for "You Raise Me Up". That client I told you about belongs to the same parish and he was nasty last week when we didn't show up for Mass. I wanted to knock the enamel off his teeth! When I have told him we don't go because of Maria's diabetes acting up or we have had a family crisis (including what happened to my son) or the birth of my grand-daughter, he starts to judge us. I cannot wait to discharge my responsibilities to him and get him out of my hair. You are right...people are plain nasty....until IT happens to them!:unsure: I am so pissed off about this jerk spreading rumors about me, I feel like leaving home. It is bad enough to be grieving like this, but to be laid bare for veiled attacks when my wife and I are dealing with this loss makes this much, much worse. I already have SAD and Major Depression Disorder...I feel like going old school on this so-called neighbor and letting him have it! :angry::( Oh, and I am eating like a pig or not at all. I am a foodie and love to cook. Now, I don't feel like anything but sitting here and stewing. So sad...so sad. :( My wife tells me I have pushed her away. To my mind that is equivalent to telling me I am grieving Billy incorrectly and that I am just plain wrong for being on line for support. I don't know what to do. I will check in periodically. :(

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We have agreed to leave each other alone. I told her I will find someone to tell me how to grieve correctly since according to her I should just trudge on through, not to mention all the idiocy I am dealing with. I will be online though. One just doesn't get over it all at once. As the male head of the house, I guess I am supposed to shut it up, stuff it up and deal with it. I also informed her that I really don't and will not talk about our loss to anyone because I don't want her to be upset.

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We have both cooled off, having a cup of tea and are watching :Sorry Wrong Number". It is a movie starring Barbara Stanwyck and Burt Lancaster. I know I am dating myself...oh well. Today's movies just don't do it for me or my wife. She is also grieving and we groused at each other. Thanks for allowing me to vent.  Have asafe, warm and restful evening. I'll stop by tomorrow. Sleep and dream well.  

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Hearthurt, no two people grieve in the same ways and at the same times, one person sinks one way while the other remains more shrouded in shock for a bit longer and sinks when they sense their partner might be able to take care of things for them for a while...we do this unconsciously for the most part, taking turns in a way, and in that time, we generally do push others and each other away...it is natural to not be able to feel as you once did toward ANYONE other than another child. It is also very natural to not feel like being physical with a partner, when we are newly grieving we are on overload and our nervous systems do not want to add anything more. All of this on top of the fact that you take care of your wife in her medical condition...so this complicates both yours and her grief and ability to just grieve. I know it does not sound like a luxury: to grieve...but for those who are being pulled in several directions, to just have time to be alone with your grief is indeed a luxury.  If you are able, going to see a therapist to just have a weekly check in with someone who has worked with parents in grief might add to your life as you put things back together again. As far as people whose expectations and ignorant comments can knock us off our mark, or make us want to fight, we need to find ways to both let it out and contain it at the same time. So what I mean by this is you should feel fine about saying how your feel to others, but don't hit anyone, Lord knows a lawsuit will not help this time along. I learned that I had to let go of some people in my life, that their expectations or comments simply were not adding anything good to my life and I felt that I needed more than anything, to take care of ME. I needed to be kind to myself, to honor my Daugher through the ways I grieved, through the ways I found her light and used it. This is a long, life-long process, and in the early months and year, you need to listen to your heart and spirit and take care of your body at the same time. Your Billy would only want the very best for you, for his Mom, so to honor him, even when you don't want to, take good care of you. Get some fresh air everyday if possible, drink plenty of water, eat some good protein in each meal...if you cannot sleep, try to read so that it gets you outside of your own head for a while. Remember that night time is often the hardest especially if you cannot sleep, nights can be so long. Come here and let out your heart at night, write and write and let your story be told. It often feels healing to tell and retelll your stories about your Child. If you do not feel like going to church, then don't, it is not a sin by not going, it is simply honoring your grief. And finally, talk to your Boy, let him know that you are struggling and ask him for his assistance, ask him to be near when he can.

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I know I have posted this pic before but it rolled up as a memory on my FB newsfeed and made me gasp aloud as it was so unexpected. I loved him so very much. 

FB_IMG_1515897665587.jpg

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As far as the physicality between my wife and me, that part of our marriage is OK. In fact, having the ability to just cuddle really helps us both feel better. It is NOT about sex, necessarily, it is more about intimacy and warmth. I know that may sound goofy coming from a man (or maybe it doesn't). I also know that our children loved being held when they were little and we never rejected them. I would never strike another human being unless someone put their hands on me, my wife, children or one of my grand-children. You are right about another child. My best friends' little girl, she is 6, is a little cutie pie and there are two little girls (10 and 12...we have known them since they were squirts too) here at our apartment complex that love to visit and play Monopoly, have hot chocolate, etc with the misses and me. We are more like a second set of parents for these 3 kids. I know that when they visited recently, my wife and I felt better. The 6 year old loves to climb all over me and is high energy. The other two are just very loving and sweet. In many ways, these 3 kids have many of the same qualities of my son at that age, in fact all 5 of our kids have.I have always told our children and I number the three kids I just mentioned among them also that hugs and cuddling are always free. Well, I can attest to the fact that we, as adults, need that affection as much as children do especially when doubt and fear and grief are present. Currently, I am reading Henry IV by Shakespeare and that is helping...the act of holding a book, reading and just being in the moment. I have been talking to Billy and sometimes, I can hear him telling me he is OK. I know he is with Our Lord and with those that have passed over. I know my last couple of posts have been very acidic and angry and I am sorry about those posts....but at the time, that is exactly how I was feeling. What I don't like is my sadness coming out as anger, especially when it is being directed at Maria. She has enough on her plate with her condition and doesn't need me being snarky, moody or mean. I am finding that nuisance comments from the peanut gallery around us are even more so irritating. That is why I have been staying away from people until I can control my emotions, not my emotions controlling me. What really is confusing is why, when people see us at one of the lowest points in our lives, they would go out of their way to be nasty, lying, bastards. What kind of a sicko miscreant goes out of their way to hurt a family in mourning...especially when the family is mourning the loss of a child? I guess I missed that class when I was in elementary school. My parents would have sent my behind into a wall if I behaved like that. Maybe the answer is in the question...they are miscreants.    Thanks for reading. I am going to watch a little more TV and then try to get some sleep. I turned off the alarm clock and maybe we'll go to Mass and maybe we won't, we'll just have to see. Good night.

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gretchen what a beautiful collage I am not artistic at all wish I was. Yes I grow flowers and shrubs but the beauty is all their creation not mine.

hearthurt I can sense anger in you and totally get it. I think it is important to let your anger and frustration out in controlled constructive ways instead of letting it boil over with your annoying neighbour and at people that cant get it. Go for a run, smash a ball in a squash court, throw stones at a target, play computer games where there is a target whatevever, just dont let that anger cause you to lose your temper and do something that can get you into trouble. I play a lot of bubbleshooter online. It is a mindless game shooting coloured bubbles and trying to get a good score. The score is not important for me I just blast away those bubbles. It passes the time and gets out some of my feelings when I cannot be bothered to get off the couch. If the weather is ok I rip weeds out with my bare hands and dig putting all my energy and anger into those actions. I visualise the weeds as smothering and insiduos like grief, that need to be faced head on with direct action. A lot of people lose their faith. Do what feels right for now, your decisions can change in time and I now there are several members who know they could have not got where they are without their faith. Me? Total non believer since my son was killed in 2015 never set a foot in a church although several people with faith have helped me. I believe now in spirituality and the healing power of Nature. I am at my most calm when in my garden, knowing I am helping to support the bees butterflies hedgehogs and birds by growing flowers and feeding the creatures. Makes me sound like  a dippy hippy I know! Guess we all go a bit crazy after losing a child. I am disabled and not currently working, awaiting another surgery so I do have the luxury of free time. I know that work pressure can be really tough, you need time off to grieve but you also have to support the family financially it can be very tough. You and your wife will have to grieve in your own ways it is different for men and women but try to come togther for mutual support. A warm hug even without words can do wonders.

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I raise my coffee cup to you and Forest Gretchen. Lovely photo of your Boy.

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Hearthurt, I wanted to respond to your post, 

"You are right...people are plain nasty....until IT happens to them!:unsure: I am so pissed off about this jerk spreading rumors about me, I feel like leaving home. It is bad enough to be grieving like this, but to be laid bare for veiled attacks when my wife and I are dealing with this loss makes this much, much worse."

 My advice is to be  very very  careful who you let into your inner circle of loss. Usually unless the person has had child loss they haven't a clue what they are talking about. Myself and my family  have suffered a lot of attacks from those who were in our church at the time...we left 2 churches because the people could not stop judging and pointing fingers and accusing. At first there was sympathy, afterwards followed was a flogging. It would be an understatement to say I am entirely pissed off at those who try to gain spiritual brownie points at my family's worse time ever... And those people are such incredible big liars, especially to themselves...we actually had one family exile my daughter because we did not practice the "forgiveness plan" they mapped out for us! (I think they forget to read the psalms and some of what King David said at his low points).

I would say to find those who practice true spirituality...oddly enough, we have switched over to a local parish in Marshfield WI leaving protestant churches behind. Also, going to the prayer room at Holy Hill was helpful and lighting candles there. I would encourage you to look at the mystics of the church (Padre Pio) and others such as Rhoda Wise (stigmatic). I have found there is an inner mystical path that seems to be the core and not everyone that is an attender understands that, or even knows that it exists.

I am sharing a pic for you and those who like to  finger point at the bereaved....

*******************************

Thank you to both Dee and to Kate who emailed me this morning!

...it has been a difficult few weeks. My mom suffered from almost having a heart attack so I have been with her since Dec 29. She had stints placed and still may need other heart surgery. It was touch-and-go for awhile. I had a somewhat precognitive dream beforehand, as well as other certain knowings that manifested that something was going to drop. So far she is recovering good from the stints but time will tell if that relieves the pressure on heart valves. 

What I have learned is to watch the salt intake!!!! No more than 2000 mg a day. I have been doing a variety of simple recipes for her to get her back to the basics.

*****************************************

To those new here, I am sorry for your loss. It is a great group of people that meet here and have helped me immensely.

Hello to all my fellow posters. I thank you all for being there. 

knowtobesilentn.jpg

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Hi Tommy's mum: I appreciate your message very much. We have decided to stay home. I see that you are across the pond. It is bitterly cold out and we are both susceptible to bronchitis and pneumonia. My anger is simply smoldering at this point. I have been doing a lot of reading (Henry IV, Shakespeare) and that helps. I play Zuma to distract me. I only wish I had someone to play chess with. As far as my becoming physical goes with an idiot, I am self-controlled enough to stop that. If I don't, that would be my undoing and my disabled wife and the other kids need me. I have also found that helping people around us is actually helping me get through it. I feel in a lot of ways that the nobler parts of myself is no longer here but I am trying my level best to honor my son by being loving, kind and respectful to others. You do not sound hippy dippy to me. It seems that we all must march to our own tune and as we come to the coda in this etude we call life, we need to perhaps help ourselves by helping others. We are going to simply relax today and tomorrow my business is closed because here in the US it is a federal holiday. This is a short week because my wife has 3 doctor appointments in a row on Wednesday. We are planning on going out for lunch, also. What is really awful is that my son's passing took place during the holidays and our anniversary is 2 January. Hopefully, as time goes on and as the Lenten season begins next month, we'll be able to get back to our faith and feel my son's presence even more.   

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Jesse & Taylor Mom: As a depressed person already and with having SAD, which is really bad this time of year, it appears that people sense weakness in others when something like this happens and they have one of two reactions. 1- They try their level best with their limited capacities as human beings to be supportive or 2- they become nasty and miserable because compassion and humanity is dead in themselves. They have no conception of how words and actions can hurt others and worse, they don't care. In fact this one neighbor I have been referring to is a full blown, raging alcoholic who liquors himself up, tells people that they need meds, becomes belligerent and then blames everyone around him for his problems and when he is told to back off his answer is not just no, he actually gets worse and even more aggressive. I know I have a touch of agoraphobia and frankly, I don't want to go anywhere because I am concerned that if someone says the wrong thing to me, I'll blow my stack. Typically, I keep my temper under control, but when I am under this much stress, my temper becomes hair trigger. If I yell or something like that, OK...it is when I become very quiet that people need to really back off because when I blow, it is not just directed at the person who is irritating me...it is everyone around me. I am 56 years old and one thing I know about me is that I can be the kindest man one will ever meet. To have nitwits cause problems for sport for others simply baffles me. Of course I wasn't raised that way and we didn't raise our children to act like that either.  I believe you are right, though. I am going to look into Padre Pio's life and other mystics as well. I also believe that what ever negative feelings we have will get to my son and I know him well enough to know he wants us to be happy. Thanks 

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Right ON! Our Children do want us to be happy, to stand where they no longer can and find a cause, a purpose, a reason to feel good about our lives. It is hard but it is worth the effort. I went back to work teaching 3rd grade after Erica was killed, she died in the summer and so I still had 4 or 5 weeks left of summer break and so had time to be with myself and my Son and loved ones during that time. I was unsure if I could go back to work, if I could still be an effective and good teacher, and so I went back and found that going back to work was exactly what helped me find my purpose again. I had 6 hours a day where I could not be absorbed in my grief, the needs of my students was a constant, so I was present in their lives and in teaching, and that helped me immensely. At around the 6 month mark, I went to therapy and found this place, so I was doing what I could to find a healthy mind/spirit/body.

Laurie, I am so glad to see you here, have worried about you and wondered if Everyone was okay. I wish your Mom goodness and that the stints will indeed help her. Thanks for letting us know.

Now, does anyone know if Susan is okay?

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Gretchen. I have never seen this picture of Forest. It is gorgeous. Picture really does say a thouse words.  Beautiful on the inside and out. If we could only go back eh.. my Kira was just in heaven a few weeks before Forest. I hope she was one of the angels who welcomed him in. Let’s just keep gluing those pieces together the best we can.  

 Hurtheart.  See I told you there was lots of wonderful people here ready to help. Your emotions seem to be all over the place right now which is so normal.  U can come here and be as angry or happy and everything in between.  No one will judge. Everybody has every right to grieve any way they want as long as they aren’t physically hurting someone else.  There is no step by step manual on what to do when you lose a child.  We are all different.  Do you think your wife might want to join us talking on line? It took me six years of being hurt time and time again to get it thru my head friends and family didnt and don’t care. My daughters passing meant nothing more to them then going to a Tupperware party.  I expect either nothing from them now or something insensitive. And guess what...that’s exactly what I get.  Please take those people out of your life if you can.  This journey is hard enough without people being nasty and insensitive.. and your right they won’t change unless it happens to them at which time they will be banging down our doors with apologies.  This has been a long and hurtful lesson for me to learn.  And u may find u and your wife will not agree on a lot of things.  I absolutely believe my Kira is in heaven and I will see her some day and I hope she is with all your wonderful angel kids. My husband does not believe at all. He gets upset if I think I see a sign.  So we just simply don’t talk about it anymore.  Keep coming back. I can’t evn think where I would be if I had not found this website. Hold on we are here.

 

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Well, once again we are fighting. We have decided that we are going to separate and on Wednesday I am moving out. She needs to grieve in her own way as do I. There is simply no room for my feelings in this situation and my tolerance and over sensitivity right now is simply too much for her. I am going to make sure that the rent is paid (I get paid on Wednesday) and she can use the balance for herself. This will also force me away from the jerks around here. I see no other way to address this situation. I need to let her doctors know that I am gone, at least for now so her health care coordinator can arrange for in home care.

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Oh hearthurt.  I’m so sorry it has come to this.  I’m not a counsellor but just grieving mom but maybe  you just need a bit of a break.  To step back and take a breath. You will never be the same person your were before you lost your child. Your so new to this and just getting thru every aching hour is difficult in the beginning.  I hope things work out for you. Keep coming here an d reach out where you will always be welcomed with open arms.  

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Laurie, I am so sorry to hear about all your mother has gone through.  I am glad the stents were successful and hope further treatment goes as well.  You have had your hands so full with everything.  My most positive thoughts and prayers go out for you and your mom..

Dee, your recent post to Hearthurt resonated with me these last 24 hours... about letting people go who cause you more hurt.  Yesterday my cousin---the one that lost her son recently---well----I was helping with Thank you cards as we had had some problems with the original cards. We started talking about "signs" and of course I teared up.  She then lit into me about the only reason Michael has sent so many signs is because he thinks I am "ridiculous" to be like this and isn't it about time I get over this. Then told me we have the worst lights in our house and (since I have sheers on my windows) I just am entombing myself in the house.My husband tried to stay polite and I tried to think she is still in those early grief days BUT the rest of the day and night I was a mess.  She has pulled my chain so many times--like the one where she never got closure since we never had a service---well, lo and behold her son's service was very similar to Michael's and he also was cremated. She is the only family member I have that I am close to and she was Michael's Godmother.  We were each other's Maid of honor.  I feel my progress has been ok for 3 years.  I haven't worked since Fall of 2016 and wish I still was but an old consultant is not much in demand so I deal with this retirement thing.  Maybe sometimes it is just time to adjust what you let people in your life do. So Luanne, not just your siblings.  This after I gave her a plaque that was "Cousins by Blood, Sisters by Heart, Friends by Choice" that got "put away". So many mean things said to me---and then she gave me an Office Depot card in payment of my help!

Hearthurt (Lou)- I am sorry for the loss of your son. He sounds like such a wonderful boy-- and I am sorry your first exposure to me is with me snarling.  This grief journey is a roller coaster ride of so many ups and downs, turns and quick drops.  I am also sorry to read your recent post of such difficulties between you and your wife.  Grieving takes so many forms for each of us. So many emotions hit you--sadness, despair, anger, guilt and not all of them have reason.I lost my son a little of 3 years ago. I hope that things can develop that allow you and your family the time to adjust to grief.  It is a cruel presence.

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I HATE THIS! One minute we are getting along just fine and the next we are at it. I can't stand to see her hurt and yes, I am blaming me. I feel so alone, lonely and upset. I feel like people around me hate me (possibly blame me), think it is funny to laugh at a grieving person who has lost a child, just to see them hurt even more. What the hell are they trying to get? I just don't know what to do with myself. I usually like to eat...I don't even want to look at food. I have been drinking so much coffee, it isn't funny. My sleep is up for grabs and I feel like I am going to lose my militant Italian mind on somebody. The one who is hurting the most is my wife and it is all my fault because of my reactions to what is going on around me. I can't stand noise and on some level I like the nights better because it is quiet.

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Dianne, yes probably the most surprising and devastating thing I found was the total lack of compassion and nastiness towards grieving parents. Especially by the very people u thought would never leave you. Actually the ones who never acknowledged right from the beginning probably did me least harm cause they let me know right from the beginning they didn’t care.  Wow what a wipe eh.....I like both those teams.  

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The sad part is she just lost her son less than 2 months ago and my husband and I tried to be there for her-helped with arranging music for the service, doing the picture slideshow..helping with the cards.  I know that anger is sometimes the manifestation of grief but didn't expect this.  I know I need to let it go.

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lovely photo of your boy Gretchen so handsome.

laurie you are right in bringing up the point of who you let into your inner circle. As time goes on even people who were supportive initially can lose patience with us grievers. I guess we are a hard bunch to understand because we seem to lose the ability to go out, and struggle more socially, we care about what people think and are hurt when our lives are so misunderstood. I am beyond horrified that your family felt run out of two churches, because I thought Godly people were about kindness and support and held to a higher standard. I agree that many of those who lead an active church life are still guilty of gossip and scorn and judgement because they are human but for goodness sake they are supposed to know better. so glad you have found a place that gives you the spiritual home you deserve. Love that video that is the kind of thing I enjoy too the healing of Nature. So sorry to hear your mum has been so unwell heart stuff is really scary isn't it? Stents can make a huge difference in heart health widening narrowed arteries and delivering much needed oxygen. medicine can indeed be a strange and wonderful thing. I hope she feels the benefits soon and her health improves. When our parents become sick it is scary. They have always been there for us even as adults and to see them aging and the problems that come along with aging is hard.

hearthurt yes by helping others we can help to heal ourselves in whatever way we can. My grandmother used to say love makes the world go round and people sweeter she was right. It is finding positive ways to deal with grief and our losses that make the difference.

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One of my best friends at work literally never spoke to me again after forest died. My boss put his hand over forest's picture a week after I returned to work (I got 2 weeks leave) and said "you need to get rid of this and move on with your life" people! So many people I feel are terrified it is going to happen to them that it causes them to shut you out. 

Hearthurt my husband (not forest's dad) and I have hung through 6.5 years but it has been hard and our relationship is not the same.

Louanne the art is a collage made of cut up magazines though I have done some big glass pieces. If I can find a pic i'll post one.

Laurie hope things are movingforward in a positive way.

Tommy's mum I love to dig in the dirt too. I use to be a pretty good gardener but now between my back and the terrible soil around the house I now live in not so much but I still love it. Also I am not religious and unfortunately not even too spiritual. I do love nature and wish I had some kind of strong belief system...

0314161334-00-1.jpg.423af38a45c0c201b4a7e9199c474c8d.jpg here is one of the glass pieces I did on a shower door of sheep on a mountain side at sunset. One of these days I will get them mounted in my yard as a wind break.

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Dianne and Gretchen. It never fails to surprise at how low people can get. No I know they can’t understand wholly, but just common sense  and deciency. 

Heart hurt. I hope if nothing else your first week here u can understand to be oh so careful who to let into your circle. I have no one left from six years ago , and at the time it didn’t even enter my mind my family would all turn. I just want to save you from 6 yrs of hell I went thru trying to get it thru my thick head they do not care. Let those ones go early on don’t let them hurt you time and time again. I have been here since April and there has always been many people to praise my progress and help me when I stumble.  This is a very good place to get help. Oh how I’d wished I found it years ago. 

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