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Loss of an Adult Child


momofJustin

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PERFECTLY STATED SUSAN!!! Susan, I remember clearly the 6 month mark, clearly. The doorbell rang and there was a small package from sisterinlaw in Boston. She is ERi's Godmom. In the box a small silver disk with the symbols for Beautiful Daughter engraved into it in Chinese, and EER. Eri's initials. I have been wearing it since, over 8 ears, only comes off when I have surgery.

14 months is a very long time Diane, to be without a Child.

All the wise words spoken today about allowing for free expression...our words need to be spoken but not with malice or angst, there is so much of that in the world anyhow, so just step back a bit and ask yourself if the words sound in the least bit cutting. If yes, adjust the wording, not the main idea behind it.

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Since my last post I’ve stayed away from here. Like most of us I found this place in desperation to find others who understood, and maybe hear a shred of hope that others have survived this that I, to this day, feel I won’t survive. I never felt I’d find answers here as to how to do this but felt safe to know I wouldn’t be judged, attacked, or told to do anything differently than I could handle. I’ve appreciated that probably more than anything. As we know it seems everyone who hasn’t had to face this has an opinion on what we NEED to do to get through this.

As others have said, this is supposed to be a place where we all feel safe to share the unimaginable pain of losing our greatest gift, our children. This pain bonds us; it’s the one thing we all feel. Though it affects us differently due to so many factors, we all feel this emptiness and pain. Other than that we differ in our feelings and beliefs, most likely from these same factors which formed our ability to cope (for lack of being able to come up with a better term). I stayed away because the attacks were far too much to handle. I tend to be a fight or flight type of person and in this case I chose flight. I despise fighting and more so antagonistic people.

For me, I think that’s the biggest change that’s taken place here. We’ve always been able to share our beliefs, faith, or lack of either here. We were able to share our anger, whether over the loss of our child, the way others have reacted to us, and even our anger at God…If God is/was our belief. I also didn’t come here for answers as to whether he exists or has control over our day to day life or choices. I appreciate and respect everyone’s beliefs and their right to share them.

Where I feel the lines were crossed here was when some felt it okay to preach to others as what they should feel and when asked to stop, or told they were hurting another here, they continued to antagonize and fight to change the opinions of others. If being a certain way helps you, whether it’s being upbeat, or dependant on your beliefs, I applaud your ability to do so. However, to force these opinions on others in a way to make others feel what they’re doing is wrong, and worse making judgment on the ways someone here has lost their child, is cruel. Some don’t feel they can take their frown and put it upside down. Some struggle with their belief which they counted on helping to keep our children safe. Others don’t believe at all, and that is also their right.

I don’t feel as comfortable as I used to here, it’s changed. I won’t “call out” anything that anyone has done specifically but I do have to say a couple of things to get them off my chest. I won’t debate mental illness, it exists, it’s awful, the support system for it sucks, and we lose way too many to hopelessness every day. This is not an overstatement and I also don’t believe free will is involved in the hopelessness mental illness brings about.

Like many of you I’ve had my own battles with this. Both of my parent’s illness’s led them to be abusive; my mother was often suicidal, and my brother’s led him to suicide. I experienced the struggles he went through and watched how he wasn’t able to get the help he needed. Did he ultimately make the choice to stop trying? Maybe he did, but when you feel you have nothing, are unable to ask for help, or don' get it when you do, I don’t believe free will is something felt because they feel there are no other choices.

I thought having moved out at 16 I could escape it. I raised my boys by myself and kept them as far away from the family as possible. They both seemed to be escaping the family traits and Shawn especially found a way to be happy no matter what life handed him. It didn’t save him from the truck that pulled out in front of him and those memories haunt me every minute. Losing my son and picturing what he must have gone through has led me to that place of hopelessness and I understand more now than I ever did before. So even all I did to keep it away from my life, sometimes life brings you something that causes you to let go of the threads of hope you once held on to. I also recently lost an old friend to suicide; she too felt she had no other way out of the pain she felt. I just don’t feel free will is involved when hopelessness is overpowering.

Free will to me is more about other decision we make in life, like whether we’ll knock out someone who ticks us off, maybe rob a bank to pay the bills, or taking a risk we know could bring us or someone else harm. Are we free to do any of these things, sure we are, but could there be a heavy price to pay, definitely. For me, it comes down to our beliefs, morals, and ethics. I truly don’t want to debate our definition of this but I couldn’t help but put in my opinion especially to those of you who have lost anyone in this way. I read somewhere once, and saved it. It was something someone posted in response to another’s hurtful comments about suicide….” Someone on here said, suicide is what happens when pain outweighs the capacity for dealing with pain. Bravery or cowardice really doesn't have anything to do with it. For some it's simply the only way to make the pain end”. Again, not free will but hopelessness.

This is already getting longer than I intending, and I'm sure there's been many posts since I've started this, but I also want to talk about the anger. I think we’ve all heard that depression is anger turned inside out. That makes sense to me but the brain is the most complicated part of our bodies, and functions differently for all of us. Anger doesn’t feel good but sometimes feels like the safest place to be. Right or wrong is not for me or anyone else to decide. I’m sure it’s not “healthy” but how can anyone not be angered over the fact the most important part of their life is gone, at the situation that led to their loss, or at some of the awful situations/mistreatments that followed.

I’m not certain if, or how often, I’ll come back but I truly hope this place finds its way back to the place I found when I first came here in the middle of the night. I’ve been fortunate to meet some truly beautiful people and will hopefully carry those friendships with me whether still a part of this forum or not. As with everything I guess time will tell but please be kind to one another.

Karen,

You were absolutely right in what you said about mental illness and suicide. I have also seen undiagnosed and untreated depression turn lovely young girls into negative, abusive, and embittered alcoholics, as it did to my mother and grandmother. Once I got older and learned a little more about these illnesses, it helped me to understand them, forgive them, and ask THEM for forgiveness for my lack of patience and my unkindness.

My son-in-law and I had a talk about anger the other day. except for the occasional feeling of anger at Chrissy for leaving, he is pretty much over it and i am so glad about that. I told him that his anger was natural- he felt abandoned by the most important person in his life- why SHOULDN'T he feel that way once in awhile? I shared with him, again, my absolute RAGE at God for taking her from me- HOW COULD YOU DO THIS? I stayed angry for days! But I understand more now, and He has never left me. I think, sometimes, our (natural) feelings of anger add to our burdens by making us feel guilty. Just one more emotion to deal with, I guess...

I hope you don't stay away- we all need your wisdom.

Robyn

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Yesterday Gretchen posted about a torn canvas and it spoke to me. I began thinking how when I am painting. It starts out that I am in control, know exactly what I am going to do. But always in the process a misstep, slip of wrist etc. happens. Something unplanned and I never intended. I have learned with experience that when a mistake happens, then I need to work on that area of correction. I cannot ignore the mistake. I have to work on it. As I do, beauty almost always emerges. Almost always it is the mistake that I had to become creative in fixing that will be the most stunning,or beautiful. I have learned to look for my mistakes (in my artwork). To accept them and go with them. In classes I have seen less experienced artists give up in dismay. Yet when the mistake happens is when the fun begins. That is when the creativity is truly tapped into. That is when I begin to fly. It is what us artists call 'the zone.' The mistake in the artwork causes me to go in a direction I never ever intended. Causes me to rework my plans, dreams, ideas for the artwork. Every time this has happened I marvel. I marvel how it was the mistake that ultimately caused the most beautiful part of the painting. I am not sure if that is clear, or if someone who is not an artist totally follows me. ~~~~But yesterday I glanced at a picture of Racahel sleeping in her dad's arms when she was little. It was on the end table in my den. I got the warmest feeling. Did not feel pain when I looked at her picture for the first time. I had a sense of hope. Hope that a thing of beauty was yet to be created. All those thoughts that emerged when Gretchen posted about the painting came to me. I felt hopeful. I know and have known these facts about my artwork and the mistakes for a very longtime. I realized that I had to apply all the same principles as the piece of art.,lean into the mistake, go with it. Watch it transform the canvas. I realize I am God's canvas and perhaps right now I have been a brush whose hairs fall out and stick in the painting, or I have been a crusty hard old tube of paint,or perhaps I have been right where I needed to be. Perhaps I am oil paint on a painting in progress that has cured after several days, needed the time to dry, to sit and become firm, so that the painting can be continued. I am seeing so many aspects to my situation through my art. I am going to hold onto this and ponder it. Thank you Indigo's for your guidance,

~~~~~~~Love, Maddy

Maddy,

My dear girl- you are an amazing presence in here! The way you write makes me think that your paintings must be beautiful! You create pictures in my mind and help me see things in a different way. I especially love your description of Rachael's photo with her Dad. That you can see it as an opportunity to learn is wonderful. Mistakes don't have to be "mistakes"? Better that they are a chance to learn.

Much love,

Robyn

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Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, today is your 1 year Angel date and mama misses your sweet face. Tears they fall like rain today. I wish I wouldn't think about that terrible day so much.

Cindy, Dylan's mom

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Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, today is your 1 year Angel date and mama misses your sweet face. Tears they fall like rain today. I wish I wouldn't think about that terrible day so much.

Cindy, Dylan's mom

Cindy,

I am so sorry for your sadness today. May you have sweet memories of Dylan, may you be comforted with them, know that we are with you and we hurt for your loss of your precious son.

Love,

Maddy

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DYLAN- sit near your sweet Momma today and let her feel your presence and your peace.

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This is my son Richard. Isn't he beautiful !

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This is my daughter Sarah. Isn't she beautiful!

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This is a Peace Sign. Isn't it beautiful !

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Hi Indigos,

You are ALL important here and very very much wanted, needed and cared for. While a few members have recently decided to take a break from posting because emotions tend to run extremely high in this community, everyone is doing okay and that is perfectly normal. Misunderstandings often occur, but they eventually get worked out. We are a tight community, knit together because of our mutual experiences.

Susan, Betsy, Dee, Diane, Maddy, Robyn, Karen, Kate, Cindy and everyone else--you are all awesome and thank you so much for caring.

ModKonnie

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Thanks Konnie, and yes Betsy, those two Children and that gorgeous PEACE sign are beautiful. A message of Peace and unity.

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tobyfreefoot

thinking of you. i haven't hit this date yet but i dread it. i'm so sorry.

Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, today is your 1 year Angel date and mama misses your sweet face. Tears they fall like rain today. I wish I wouldn't think about that terrible day so much.

Cindy, Dylan's mom

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tobyfreefoot

lovely!!! all three

This is my son Richard. Isn't he beautiful !

post-278995-0-44872300-1332364675_thumb.

This is my daughter Sarah. Isn't she beautiful!

post-278995-0-88838400-1332364828_thumb.

This is a Peace Sign. Isn't it beautiful !

[attachment=6482:peace.j

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The pictures of Richard, Sarah and the peace sign are indeed very beautiful. Thanks for sharing them with us.

Not sure that I understand what is happening the last few days. I have stated before that I logically understand that Shannon is dead....that she was killed 6 months ago in a car accident about a mile from our home on a beautiful Tuesday afternoon. I get that, but still it seems so unreal....like she's been away visiting someone else....not like she is not coming back through the door. Every once in a while, at random times, the thought "Shannon's dead" or "Shannon died" echo in my mind. When it happens I feel as though I am spiraling into a tunnel, spinning and sinking. It pierces my soul and conscience, but it is so fleeting....then it's gone....it's over. I just sit or stand still, and I am unable to really absorb the experience. I keep thinking that I should be on my knees screaming and crying, but I'm just still and confused. Is this denial? Is it possible to logically understand, but be in denial at the same time? Is this just reality slowly seeping in, playing with me some cruel game of hide and seek or peek-a-boo? I don't really understand what's beginning to happen to me. How do you battle denial? And what exactly is denial anyway?

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Jilly's mom

Gretchen,

I wish there were a "like" button! Your children are beautiful!

Praises for good drs appts today. My hubby is still in his remission after 3 years! Our youngest daughter had her high school gymnastics banquet tonite...and they gave out the "Jillian award...and honored my youngest for being able to still show up at most of the practices and compete...and even make it to State. So proud of her!

We just passed the 4 month mark with Jilly. I guess the numbness is beginning to wear off. I have been so emotional the last couple weeks! Cry at the drop of a hat. Can't stop thinking about jilly's last few seconds, in spite of the fact that I KNOW her life was so much more than her last day. I believe with all my heart that she "jumped" out of her body before impact and was spared any pain. I cling to that belief. It keeps me sane.

DM (the driver) got rid of her former lawyer...he wanted trial instead of plea bargaining...no way she would win in front of a jury, so I don't know what he was thinking. He left a stack of pics out at his office and she picked them up and started thumbing through them. They were the pics from the accident, which she hadn't seen. No warning from him....no "by the way, Jilly is still in the car in those pics and there are close ups." No warning at all. I feel very angry about that. We had not shown them to her for a reason...she is still so emotionally fragile and can barely get through the day. She doesn't remember the accident and I think that was a cruel thing to do, esp since the prosecutor told us there was no reason she would ever have to see them. Hopefully her court appointed attorney is better. Case is delayed now tilll mid April. Geesh.

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Louise, it is so wonderful the way you have stood by DM and supported her. So wonderful that you are not angry and you even feel protective toward her. I know she must struggle and your support must mean the world to her. My daughter had a boyfriend who committed suicide, not because of her, but I believe the guilt and trauma from it precipitated her drug use which would eventually claim her life. I know her parents must be so very grateful to you for your love and forgiveness. You are a lifeline into that young girl's life. I know Jilly must be so proud of you.~~~~~~~~~

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tobyfreefoot

today i had an outpatient procedure. i had to take off my necklace which is a locket made of a pair of overlapping angel wings with forest's picture and a lock of his hair inside with his name and dates engraved on back. i ended up crying when i had to hand it off.

when i got home i went to sleep and dreamed we were driving in beautiful weather looking at christmas lights. forest said he didn't want to look at them all because there were so many. i laughed and asked him what better did he have to do and leaned up against him. i haven't had many dreams of him i can remember. i usually just have the feeling i dreamed about him. it was sooo nice to get to spend a few minutes in his company. if i could dream about him every night i could live this life so much easier.

louise i think you were looking at betsy's lovely children but i agree and wish there was a like button also. thank you for trying to keep DM from being hurt worst than she already is. that is how i feel about ashlie, if she had lived i don't think i could be angry because i think her life would have already been ruined.

maddy i also am still alive because i have other children. attached are pics of my locket,all my kids at my daughter's wedding (forest officiated), allison with her rock-older brother forest,forest with ashlie who died with him and allison's daughter named after her brother madelyn dayne. allison found out she was going to be a girl 2 days after forest passed away.

susan i feel this way exactly. now the horror of the initial is over and nearly nine months has passed i have a very hard time most of the time believing it. i also wonder is it denial? am i afraid to face it or is it just nothing i can do. i can scream and cry but i usually have to make a conscious effort to get in touch with it. i have had to hide it from everyone for a long time. my boyfriend doesn't want to see it coz he can't fix it, it hurts my kids and my mom, everyone else thinks i should be over it. i feel like i want to wear a tshirt that announces it. that is why i'm here. i need somewhere it is ok to feel bad and discuss things i guess. is it because i am on so many antidepressants? i read how people cry everyday for years but he is in my mind every hour of every day and i have no sense of direction anymore. i passed my house by 7 miles last week and ended up in the men's room at wal mart recently. i know he is completely permeating my being but a lot of the time i am detached somehow like he is at his house. a coping skill? unable to take it all at once? i don't know. forest is a lot different than my other children. he had a different father and absolutely loved me and always let me and everyone else know it. my other kids love me too but they don't show it like he did. i'll never have that kind of love again. if i could dream of him everyday i wouldn't miss him so much.

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So sad to see the pain, the anger and the hurt that lifts from these last pages. The clashing of thoughts, beliefs in a way that steals away from the truth.....we have lost our children.

We all come from many and varied backgrounds. We all have our stories, our lives that have in so many ways fashioned us into who we are, what we belief and how we cope or don't cope with what life has now thrown at us.

I don't have all the answers, come to think of it I didn't have them before Micheal died. I remember thinking I would be a better mum to my kids than I believed my mum was to me. I was raised in a time where 'mental illness' was seen as a form of weakness. I was raised in the Church of England, taught that to die at your own hand was to condemn yourself to eternal damnation. I struggled with those teachings for many years. I couldn't come to terms with a god that creates such beauty yet punishes so harshly those who fail to thrive.

Now, having lived longer, evolved more (?) I believe that the 'human condition' is fragile. That as they say 'there but for the grace of God goes anyone of us'.

Do I wish my son had been able to see through the darkness that surrounded his mind & heart ......yes. Do I wish he had been able to tell me how he felt in a way that I might have eased his pain enough to see him stay.....yes. Do I understand why he left.....yes. Do I wish I could make it all go away and have him here, fit, well and thriving....yes. Someone explained to me that for Micheal the pain of staying far outweighed the pain of going.....for him that would seem true, for me, not so much..

Indigos ~ outside here is a world where people may for a short time 'get it'. Here we get it forever ~ albeit expressed poorly.

Gretchen ~ I love the locket.

Betsy ~ I also love the peace sign....

Have just come back from 4 days in the hinterland above the ocean I love so dearly. The rainforest literally comes to the ocean. Ahhh. Muttley my Emotional Support Puppy went with me. This is him staking his claim to the R&R bed. B)

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Cindy...so sorry I wasnt on earlier to offer my comfort to you...I had computer problems and wound up having to take it to the shop, so I am now on my tablet, which I love, but it does not offer me the flexibility of my desktop.

DYLAN..........sweet child, I pray that you surrounded your momma today with your precious spirit. Cindy...thinking of you and holding you close in prayer and thought.

Betsy, thank you for sharing the pictures of your beautiful Sarah and beautiful son, Rich. The green around Sarah's neck is striking. the peace sign is so very sweet. How are you?

Susan...your feelings of thinking that Shannon has just 'been away' and will be coming in the door, co-existing in your heart with the reality of her being gone are so very normal. I am so ver sorry that you are in such turmoil. Your beautiful Girl has been gone such a short time, Susan, and it iis so very difficult to not think of them in all the ways we thought of them before...coming and going, having them with us, and thinking of their daily doings...my heart to you as you feel this loss so deeply. I have felt those conflicting feelings of reality versus the unreal sense that we are just waiting for them to come home from somewhere they went out to, myself (and still do on occasion), and I have seen posts here by others who experience the same feelings. It got a tiny bit easier for me after we moved, a little over a year after Mike died...at the old house I was often looking at the door and expecting it to open and in he would come, filling the room and the house with his huge personality. When he would walk in, it was as if the sun came indoors with him. The night they came to get him (the night he died...he did hospice at our home), I stood on the porch in the cold night air, watching them gently place the stretcher carrying him into the van. I can still hear the tailgate closing, hear each door shut as the two men got back into the van. I can still see the taillights flickering through the trees that lined the street, as they drove off with my baby boy, still feel the intense pain as I realized I would never stand there again and watch his car come around the curve to our house, watch as he got closer, finally pulling into the driveway, and coming up the steps and welcome his hello hug. I still feel the shock that goes through my heart when I realize that it is over five years since I felt one of those hugs. I think that the sense of the reality of what is against the unreality that we feel can throw us off balance.

Gretchen...thank you for your pics also, they are so beautiful and everyone looks so happy. Your daughter is stunning and her dress is so very beautiful. I love the flowers! And the baby, oh goodness, so very sweet and precious. Forest is so proud of his little niece...I'll bet he brags about her all the time to all,of our angels.

Colleen, so good to see your posts and to see your Brian's sweet face.

Karen...good to see your post also. I am sorry that there was turmoil here that caused you pain, and I do hope we will see you post again. Sending love to,you, my friend.

When I am posting on my tablet, I cannot see any post other than the one I am writing, so I am going to sign off and reread some and come back after that...my feeble brain cannot remember all that I've read. Also, please forgive typos..it is hard to go back and make corrections. Still learning how to use this...I am sure there is likely an easy way to do it, but I havent gotten that far yet.

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The pictures of Richard, Sarah and the peace sign are indeed very beautiful. Thanks for sharing them with us.

Not sure that I understand what is happening the last few days. I have stated before that I logically understand that Shannon is dead....that she was killed 6 months ago in a car accident about a mile from our home on a beautiful Tuesday afternoon. I get that, but still it seems so unreal....like she's been away visiting someone else....not like she is not coming back through the door. Every once in a while, at random times, the thought "Shannon's dead" or "Shannon died" echo in my mind. When it happens I feel as though I am spiraling into a tunnel, spinning and sinking. It pierces my soul and conscience, but it is so fleeting....then it's gone....it's over. I just sit or stand still, and I am unable to really absorb the experience. I keep thinking that I should be on my knees screaming and crying, but I'm just still and confused. Is this denial? Is it possible to logically understand, but be in denial at the same time? Is this just reality slowly seeping in, playing with me some cruel game of hide and seek or peek-a-boo? I don't really understand what's beginning to happen to me. How do you battle denial? And what exactly is denial anyway?

I often woder lately the differance between denial and acceptance. Maybe it's the brain "knows" but the heart denies or can't accept IDK. I have mornings I wake up in a panic thinking I need to rush to the hospital because Amber is still there and needs me. I even have moments when a pang goes through my heart if I don't have my cell phone with me because I might miss a call saying she is going to be ok. I still say her name along with my other girls names out of habbit, I have to slow down and think to skip her name now. I still look for her when her sisters come by thinking to myself ,. "where's Amber?" I know in my brain she is gone yet I still have crazy thoughts like there must be something we can do. Driving in the car is the worst time for me all alone I break down at times or just think oh Amber Amber Amber my little Amber. I found out a few days ago I now talk in my sleep. Spent the night with my girls, I had a feeling it was going to be a bad night. Amber's twin Emily informed me.. "Mommy you talk in your sleep and its loud" I said yeah right, what did I say? Emily responded " Not like I was trying to remember, something something Amber then something something Amber." Can we all say PTSD? I am sure most of us have it in some way or another not to mention the kids we have here on earth most likely do to. They say anger covers up sadness or other feelings I think denial or non acceptance is a way of avoiding pain but its my opinion or perhaps its the body's or brains way of protecting us just like the shock and numbness does for the first few months , so I have found. As a mother we protect, nurture, comfort , it is against every mother's instinct to let go of a child let alone not be able to fix or comfort when they need us. It is also against the natural order of things to bury a child so I think it seems unreal hard to believe like a very bad dream. I know when we go to court it seems very unreal like it isn't happening , like I am in the Twilight Zone. Once it's over for that day I walk out into the hall and take a deep breath and sigh it's over for today.

Love Hugs Prayers Amber's momma

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To finish my post, now that I have gone back and refreshed my memory...

Gretchen..I forgot to mention that I thought your locket is beautiful. Are those hinges on each side for the wings to open? I cant remember if you posted that or not. I have a gold cross that has Mike's name and dates on it and has some of his ashes inside. I remember the turmoil I felt when I first had to remove it...it was for medical tests, also. The only other time I take it off is when Mike's sister and I go to a ballgame...I have a silver baseball on a chain, and have some of Mike's ashes in it also. I know he loves it when I wear that to a game!

Susan...I also forgot to ask you about Regan...how is she doing? I understand about the stone...itmis definitely NOT something we ever thought we would have to do, and something that should never have to be done for one's child. Hugs to you.

Dee...thank you for your wise words. I think you have a wisdom that is a gift to us all. Thank you for being here.

Modkonnie...thank you, also, for your caring and concern and words of encouragement.

Rhonda...I hope you are feeling better soon. I think that in our damaged emotional status, any physical illness seems to trigger those raw emotions stronger than before the loss,of our child. It's as if we are more vulnerable now, and physical illness takes a stronger hold. How is CJ doing.

Diane...I am so very sorry that you are still not able to go about and do the things that you did before because of the feelings you experience from people's insensitivities to your loss of Nathan and their judgement on him of how he died. I can't imagine the pain you feel over that, but I do hope that you continue to grow stronger. I am so sorry about your ankle, and as I said to Rhonda, I do think that our physical ailments now seem to exacerbate our emotional state and make things more difficult to cope with.

Trudi...love the pic of Sir MD...he looks so regal on his throne, and rightly so! Glad you got your days away in such an idyllic sounding place. How sweet it was to open our mailbox door and find a package from the other side of the world, addressed to hubby...it did indeed brighten his day and tickled him so when he opened it and out came this little yellow classic convertible punch buggy, having travelled halfway round the world to get to him...oh, those Mike's...clever guys, aren't they., leading you to that particular one!

Louise...so thankful for your good doctor's appointments and your hubby's three year remission status...how truly wonderful. I am so sorry about DM's seeing those photos, so very sad. As Maddy said, she must be struggling so with those memories, and you are so goodhearted to be supportive of her and so understanding of those struggles. Jilly must be so proud of you.

Robyn..I wish you luck with the new spot on your mammo and so very sorry for it being there. I, like many, if not all, here understand your feelings of being ready to go but realizing that your family needs you here. A year or so after Mike died, I was mistakenly diagnosed with kidney cancer, and one of my first thoughts upon hearing the diagnosis was that I would maybe get to see Mike soon!

Maddy...I also wanted to tell you that I am so glad for your feelings of hope upon looking at the picture of your sweet Rachael, sleeping as a baby, surrounding you with the warmth of her precious spirit throug this photo of a beautiful memory.

Hubby and I are kind of hunkered down rigt now, awaiting a call from the doctor regarding a finding from the laparoscopy done on Monday. The doctor did find a nodule on Mike's liver, and there is the chance that his pancreatic cancer has indeed spread, or that the kidney cancer has returned...or, much more hopefully...and he said this was a possibility...that it was just a benign nodule. He did remove it and sent it out for biopsy. We are waiting to hear the results, hopefully by Friday. I don't think we could stand having to wait a whole weekend on top of this whole week to hear of the results. Of course, his future treatment plan will be directly influenced by this test result. We wait, again, and continue to,pray for strength and patience, and try to just live our days and moments in the present, thankful for every hour, and drawing on our faith for hopes for the future.

My love and prayers to all...

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Amber's momma...yes, you are so right and your words are right on target...the brain 'knows' but the 'heart' cant accept the reality of our loss. I am glad you got to spend time with your daughters. I am sure that the sweet spirit of Amber was right there with all of you.

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Carol,,I love to read your kind, sweet posts. Your love can be felt as you extend kind words to all of us. I am so sorry about the nodule that was found and please let us know on Friday when you hear. Praying it will be benign. I also enjoyed the story of hubby receiving the punch buggy in the mail. Gave me a smile :-) how very thoughtful of Trudi. And yes Trudi, I love to read your wise, balanced posts. What you said anout how we are all from different backgrounds and belief systems. Your comments on that were insightful and thought provoking and caused me to think. To think how it is pain and love that unite us all. Pain is why we came here, yet we show love when we reach out to help each other. I have been shown much love, compassion, and tolerance by many of you and I appreciate that so much. Also, Robyn, I am so sorry that I did not mention your situation yesterday about the spot found in your mammogram. I am so sorry and I know it is hard to find the passion to fight for life right now. But your family needs you and ask Chrissy to help you to be stong to fight against this. I was so glad to see your post yesterday. Yes, that was the first ever, where warm memories and hope for a future had ever come to me. All while looking at Rachael's picture. Gretchen, can you tell me where you got your locket? I would love to have such a locket for my angel. Amber's momma, I think I was in denial for years. It was my coping mechanism to ease the pain until I could deal with it. Which is now. I'm probably not the sharpest tool in the shed, because it has taken me so very long. And yes, the brain knows, and the heart denies, or in my case refuses to accept. Also Carol, on the IPad 2 you can use the notepad to write and switch over to the Internet when ready. I don't know if that is the one you have, or if they all work like that, but that is how iPad 2 works.Have a wonderful day everyone. Love,Maddy

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Gretchen , a absolutely beautiful baby, Madelyn Dayne ! The wedding picture came out great as well. Such vibrant colors, happy smiles, Forest and Ashlie look very much in love. I know what you mean about dream visits. Sometimes I can remember them,other times I know I was dreaming, wake up knowing ,hearing Rich’s voice but I can't recall the dream. One time Rich appeared as in a photo frame shot just before the picture was taken. He leaned over and popped into the picture,smiling through what appeared to be fine lace. I smile when I remember this. Like , “ Hi Mom”, “bye Mom” and he was gone. Something he would do.

Louise, Dm's former lawyer is a jerk. Thankfully he is a “ former”.

Susan, thank you. The loves of my life. I also heard a voice say to me “ Rich is dead”. “Richie Died”! My own voice coming from a shattered heart and I think an affirmation from my brain to drive the fact home. Absolute. Still, the fact is hard to grasp.

Trudi, always good to see Mikes smile.

Cindy, I'm so sorry I missed Dylan's angelversary. I see that many here surrounded you with warm,caring understanding. Dylan, Dylan, Dylan..saying your name out loud!!!

Not feeling very healthy today. A visit from my 3 young cousins ages 2,3 and 10. they had been sick and even as I walked around the house with a Lysol wipe, I think something in the air got to me. UGH. :huh:

One more thing for now, Dee, each morning near dawn I am greeted with a song of a female Cardinal near my window. She stays a while and of course I try to sneak a picture in the darkness before dawn. One of these days! I expect to see a nest soon.

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After reading today's posts, all I can say is to please take a breath everyone and realize the pain you are feeling is being felt by many, just different belief systems at work and none of those should be put down or thought of as wrong, they are simply different than your own. For those who responded so fully and angrily toward a post today, while you say that follks should be able to say how they feel here, you put her down for doing so. Remember that words on screen don't always come out with the inflection that is in them originally. Nobody should leave this place today feeling let down as this place should be the opposite of that. If you feel strongly about someone's post and feel the need to address it with more vigor, then perhaps you should do so in a private message. Remember that these conversations are born from the many emotions and wonderings and needs from the good parents that sit each day hoping to glean some good thoughts and energy. The recent talks about anger are very important talks, but then we allow our anger to spill over onto people that may have a different view.

Breathe and remember that each of us here are here as Forest's Mom reminds, because we are all missing a Child. No matter how and when. And no matter the belief system, still our Children died. Some of us get strong peace from knowing that they live on elsewhere, some don't believe that...so what? Some believe that there is free choice in all we do no matter the mental anguish, some don't, so what? We have far more important things to do here than hurt each other. We are all of us wounded deeply. Furhter wounding is not what this place has ever been.

Please start over tomorrow or the next day, but don't leave.

Thank you Dee. Very well stated. I want to offer an apology to Becky for the way in which I stated my post. Fist of all, it is none of my business how she goes about dealing with her grief. I was wrong in thinking that the other woman perhaps needed a break. One life had already been lost and I could only imagine that a second was about to follow. I am very sorry that I hurt you and I hope you will accept my apology.

Also, I did not ever intend to force my views on anybody when I spoke about my faith carrying me through, I was talking about me. Not about you this time...me. I have given as much support as I have been able. If you will look back... you will also see that I rarely if ever asked for help. When I spoke of mental health issues I spoke from my own personal experiences. I also remember talking in a previous post about a seriously underfunded Mental Health Community. How we desperately needed to put better programs into place. When I spoke of suicide I was not targeting any one person or their own personal experience. I was talking about mine. Through my pain I was trying to convey...albeit very badly ,the terrible absolutely horrible way in which I see suicide. I took the visors off. Did Jeff want to die. Yes. Did he choose to die. YES! And why...because he refused to get help. It was a choice. His choice. A choice I have to live with every day. And why? Because of the stigma. I should know.The help could have been found for him if he had only reached out. This is not in any way directed at any of you. It is me telling my story. And please for once do not criticize me for this. I feel too. I have been to hell and back as well. We dance around the issue of mental health and how many of our families suffer in one form or another. We often pay lip service as it is not socially acceptable to do otherwise. Yet, often we turn a blind eye. We and I will again be targeted for this, but we need to educate our kids. We need to start at the ground level to show compassion and tolerence, love, and kindness. And yes, forgiveness.

These people needed to be able to feel that they could come forward without fear of ridicule and get the necessary help they so rightly deserved. I'm was a good lesson to him why he could not do that. He saw how I was treated and it scared him. So, yes in a way I feel partly responsible for his death. My illness was not my fault. I have never taken drugs. Except ones that were forced on me many years ago. I was a very young girl that was horribly abused. I found through my mind a way to escape that pain. If I appear to be insensitive it is because I have learned to numb myself. Memory lapses are no fun. The sheer utter fear of realizing it is starting again can throw you into an unimaginable panic. I watched him die before my very eyes. I forced myself to stay present. I had too. He needed me more then I needed to get away. Through the dedicated care and help of several loyal doctors I am happy to say that I have this under control. But it is crap. I don't want to live like this. It is a daily struggle one I would gladly toss off. I want freedom from this pain. But my choice is to stay. Living is what matters. And I want my son back.

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Kate - I am so very happy that you posted today. (I use the term "happy" rather loosely, as I'm so depressed....maybe "relieved" would be a better word?)....Anyway, I felt something when I saw and read your post, and it wasn't a negative feeling. My own mental illness may be different from your's, but those feelings of isolation, shame and judgement are the same. I admire the courage it took to voice your battle......we just never know what the outcome of that voicing will bring, do we? Sometimes love and compassion. Other times judgement, fear and shunning. Although it hurts when I am responded to negatively, I figure I'm better off when those people choose to walk away and out of my life....this life is tough enough without the added oppression of folks like that.

Kate, I believe you to be a kind and caring person....wise also (in ways that many will never understand for lack of experience.)

I've been struggling with depression which really started to settle in around the 4 1/2 month mark. I just overall don't feel well. Very heavy hearted, almost no motivation to do or care for anything. I would prefer to be left alone with nothing and no one who needs anything from me....but, I don't see that happening. Wishing I could hit the "pause" button....just put everything on hold and sleep so soundly and deeply that I do not know that I continue to exist. Thinking tears might help to release all that is held within me, but they fail me too. I'm just here. Don't know what else I can say about it other than I want my girl back, and I hate the powerlessness of not being able to change what has happened.

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I am confused about something and I am just going to get it out there. If I get shot between the eyes, at least I will have been enlightened. Is talking of my faith, or sharing my struggles with God a problem to post on here? I 'know' everyone does not believe like me. They believe the way 'they' believe. I accept that. I respect that. I have no judgement or opinions of others. I marvel, learn and grow having opportunity to view the world from the eyes of others. I feel everyone is valuable and their input important. At times I have been puzzled, not sure, if I am not supposed to mention my own faith. If that is who I am, and my background, what is wrong with that? Now, if it is wrong, or I am offending someone, or I am too daft to figure something out, please tell me. For I truly would not want to create more angst and step on toes in the lives of any of any of you. My life has been a nightmare since August 29, 2005 when Katrina hit New Orleans. It has been one hell of a ride and I lost my precious daughter. This site has been the first glimmer of any real help I have gotten. I could care less if everybody is running around worshipping the Martians !!! You are my soul sisters (& brothers) cause it is you who know my deepest pain. I am who I am. If there is some unspoken code of etiquette for the forum will someone please let me know. PM me or something, cause I continue to feel there is something I am not understanding here. I do not want to feel that way, and I would never, ever hurt anyone on here intentionally. Now, if I am off target with what I just said, you can also say, no Maddy, you are just being emotional and crazy and not seeing things clearly. And I will say OK, thanks for clearing that up. Either way....can someone let me know either way?Love, Maddy

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Let me start off my post by saying IT IS BENIGN!!!!The nodule thry found on hubby's liver has been determined to be benign! The doctor just called a bit ago and he said he was quite surprised, considering the circumstances. We feel so very blessed right now. Thank you all for your support, prayers, and good thoughts. Thank you so very, very much.

Maddy...your post about questioning whether it is 'okay' to speak of religion, faith, etc., here. All along, it has always been okay to speak of such things...those here have always seemed to speak of how they feel, asking for prayers or good thoughts, whatever they feel comfortable doing. I personally have frequently spoken of my faith, young Mike's faith, etc., and have always felt comfortable doing so. Others speakmof spirituality, and others have just come out and said they can't or don't want to go there for various reasons, and that has been fine. I guess that, like with everything else, we aer free to speak of our own experiences, beliefs, etc., and it is just that...our own. We speak here of our own grief, our own pain, and we are just sharing, which is how I have always felt about the faith or God issue...it is our own, and we are not trying to convert or influence or deny anyone ele's belief system. I hope I've given you a clearer picture of what you have asked about, without seeming to be intrusive on anyone else's feelings about it.

I would like to,post more, saying hello to all, but my computermis broken and this tablet is about out of juice and I still have to post the good news on hubby's CarePages website. I will be back later, after I've charged up my tablet.

Love to all.

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I cant edit my post from my tablet, but I did want to clarify what the fact of the nodule being benign means..it means they are planning on going ahead with the surgery for the pancreatic cancer...likely to be scheduled towards the end of next month. :-)

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I cant edit my post from my tablet, but I did want to clarify what the fact of the nodule being benign means..it means they are planning on going ahead with the surgery for the pancreatic cancer...likely to be scheduled towards the end of next month. :-)

Mike & Carol, you know you are always in my thoughts and prayers. Wishing you the best outcome.

Kate :)

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I am confused about something and I am just going to get it out there. If I get shot between the eyes, at least I will have been enlightened. Is talking of my faith, or sharing my struggles with God a problem to post on here? I 'know' everyone does not believe like me. They believe the way 'they' believe. I accept that. I respect that. I have no judgement or opinions of others. I marvel, learn and grow having opportunity to view the world from the eyes of others. I feel everyone is valuable and their input important. At times I have been puzzled, not sure, if I am not supposed to mention my own faith. If that is who I am, and my background, what is wrong with that? Now, if it is wrong, or I am offending someone, or I am too daft to figure something out, please tell me. For I truly would not want to create more angst and step on toes in the lives of any of any of you. My life has been a nightmare since August 29, 2005 when the b**** Katrina hit New Orleans. It has been one hell of a ride and I lost my precious daughter and my mind with it. This site has been the first glimmer of any real help I have gotten. I could care less if everybody is running around worshipping the Martians !!! You are my soul sisters (& brothers) cause it is you who know my deepest pain. I am who I am. If there is some unspoken code of etiquette for the forum will someone please let me know. PM me or something, cause I continue to feel there is something I am not understanding here. I do not want to feel that way, and I would never, ever hurt anyone on here intentionally. Now, if I am off target with what I just said, you can also say, no Maddy, you are just being emotional and crazy and not seeing things clearly. And I will say OK, thanks for clearing that up. Either way....can someone let me know either way?Love, Maddy

Maddy...remain true to yourself. You are a kind hearted person and everyone only wishes you the best. Have a good day if you can. This healing process takes a ton of time and patience. Hang in there.

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Kate - I am so very happy that you posted today. (I use the term "happy" rather loosely, as I'm so depressed....maybe "relieved" would be a better word?)....Anyway, I felt something when I saw and read your post, and it wasn't a negative feeling. My own mental illness may be different from your's, but those feelings of isolation, shame and judgement are the same. I admire the courage it took to voice your battle......we just never know what the outcome of that voicing will bring, do we? Sometimes love and compassion. Other times judgement, fear and shunning. Although it hurts when I am responded to negatively, I figure I'm better off when those people choose to walk away and out of my life....this life is tough enough without the added oppression of folks like that.

Kate, I believe you to be a kind and caring person....wise also (in ways that many will never understand for lack of experience.)

I've been struggling with depression which really started to settle in around the 4 1/2 month mark. I just overall don't feel well. Very heavy hearted, almost no motivation to do or care for anything. I would prefer to be left alone with nothing and no one who needs anything from me....but, I don't see that happening. Wishing I could hit the "pause" button....just put everything on hold and sleep so soundly and deeply that I do not know that I continue to exist. Thinking tears might help to release all that is held within me, but they fail me too. I'm just here. Don't know what else I can say about it other than I want my girl back, and I hate the powerlessness of not being able to change what has happened.

Susan...thank you for your compliments. I was out of my mind to make this public. Yet, it had to come out. You are new to this journey. It has not been long since your sweet Shannon passed away. I won't go on about being kind to yourself, etc. You already know all of that.

Hang in there. You are pretty strong yourself and it is going to get better in time.

Kate :)

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westleysmom

Carol-That's great news! Give Mike a hug from TN and we don't do air-kisses here, (I would never give your husband a big ole sloppy kiss, but feel free to give him one when you give him the hug.) I hope the rest of your family is well and you are holding up too.

Maddy-I think everyone here has to do what is good for them, and sometimes when I tell somebody on here what works for me, I say that in so many words "this is how I handled that and it seemed to work for me" and sometimes I don't carefully word it, and when I look back at my posts, I sound kind of preachy. Believe me when I say that hardly anybody ever asks me how I handle things since I'm such a mess, but from time to time there has been posted an open question to all and I've responded, trying to help. I think sometimes in the interest of time or because we're currently in a state that we all know but don't have all at the same time (thank goodness for that, the world would probably explode if we were all in that abyss at once!), we are not as careful, because hell, we're grieving parents and we just can't think of everything at once. I am encouraged by those who have more faith than I do, but if I'm not there yet, it can't be forced, and I don't think anyone here is trying to force the rest of us to have their faith. But they do share what works for them, which is what we want to do here, share our grief and how we deal with it. I have a day now and then when everything that is said to me pisses me off, no matter how it was intended. We are more fragile now, and sometimes it is hard to keep from being wounded by another's words that were meant only to help. That's probably not an answer, but its how I think about it and try not to get my feelings hurt too badly if something is said that I'm not in agreement with.

Susan-I'm so sorry that you are having such a hard time right now. When my friend Susan and I were at about the same time that you are, she would put that in her letters and we would marvel that we were both having the same thoughts "Westley/Andrew dead? That can't be!" The reality doesn't match the map that we had for our lives and theirs, and it is hard to look at the map and then look up and see where you thought this was all going has a dead end sign square in the middle of the road. Not bridge out, not detour, just a dead end. It is a harsh reality and hard to swallow at one time without choking. The firsts are so very painful and you will be in my thoughts.

Kate-I'm so glad you posted today. You have suffered so much, and I am so sorry for your pain. I am glad that your faith is helping you through. Choosing life is the hardest choice of all sometimes. I wish we all had our kids back.

Hope everyone is having a decent day, raining in TN

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Maddy - I agree with Carol in her response to you. We are each different, with different life circumstance and "faith" backgrounds. I think that for the most part we are very accepting and tolerant of the differences between us. We respect others as we wish to be respected, and there is no way that faith or spirituality cannot be touched upon. The experience of such great loss strips us down to our very core, and we find ourselves questioning everything. It's just part of the process and our human nature. I do comment about my own spirituality and battle with it on occasion, and if someone posts something that I don't agree with, then I just accept that they have a different belief system and were just trying to be helpful. I haven't been offended by anyone yet, but then again, I'm very open minded and liberal in my beliefs. I think it also boils down to communication and the ability to communicate with respect and consideration for everyone. Our emotions run high and varied, so there's plenty of opportunity to cause offense without intent....I just look at those high emotions as another symptom of this new life. Sometimes it seems that we are struggling against each other, but I step back and take in the hurt, the despair, the anger, and I begin seeing it as a struggle against life and the turmoil we are each experiencing. I don't think you need to worry about the issues that are brought up or touched upon here. If there's a problem, we'll work through it together....at least that seems to be the way things are done.

Carol - Very, VERY happy for you and the hubby! That's such welcome news!

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542218_209402642494004_150231905077745_290438_1548896075_n.jpg Just a thought for today. Hugs and prayers to all. Vivian-Kevin's Mom
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westleysmom

That's right Vivian, in the words of some mad man somewhere who made a lot of money on it, "This Bud's for you." Not quite as poetic, and certainly not what we wish was true, but true nonetheless.

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The pictures of Richard, Sarah and the peace sign are indeed very beautiful. Thanks for sharing them with us.

Not sure that I understand what is happening the last few days. I have stated before that I logically understand that Shannon is dead....that she was killed 6 months ago in a car accident about a mile from our home on a beautiful Tuesday afternoon. I get that, but still it seems so unreal....like she's been away visiting someone else....not like she is not coming back through the door. Every once in a while, at random times, the thought "Shannon's dead" or "Shannon died" echo in my mind. When it happens I feel as though I am spiraling into a tunnel, spinning and sinking. It pierces my soul and conscience, but it is so fleeting....then it's gone....it's over. I just sit or stand still, and I am unable to really absorb the experience. I keep thinking that I should be on my knees screaming and crying, but I'm just still and confused. Is this denial? Is it possible to logically understand, but be in denial at the same time? Is this just reality slowly seeping in, playing with me some cruel game of hide and seek or peek-a-boo? I don't really understand what's beginning to happen to me. How do you battle denial? And what exactly is denial anyway?

Oh Susan. I'm right there with you. I still say, "Did that really happen? Did Charlotte die? How could that have happened?" "Char didn't die!" I still cry and ask God to give her back to me. I just want to wake up from this horrible nightmare that I live every minute of every day. I'm a little further out than you but I'm still in this - denial I guess - or some form of it. I don't really have the choice to go to bed and not get out because I have a 3 year-old and 1 year-old to look after. I'm in some sort of shocked stupor but I get glimpses of reality which hurts more than the fog so I retreat safely to the fog of confusion. I think if I'm confused, I'm not feeling the brunt of it - which is fine with me. I just know that I miss her terribly and that nobody knows what I'm going through - except you and all the others in this sad club nobody wants to join.

I hadn't looked at the site for a while (in my stupor and the exhaustion of grief) but there seems to be some bad stuff that went down. I didn't have the energy to go back and find out exactly what it was but I hope we can all continue to post how we feel without the fear of someone jumping down our throats. I searched for a long time and I think this is the only site of its kind that you don't have to pay to belong to. We all need this site(and each other) more than we need to be "right" don't you all think?

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JD's Mom, Becky

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JD's MOM Becky

I haven't been able to post everything either because of "the case pending" , I have a million unanswered questions that I "need" answers to not really "want" answers to. Honestly I doubt I will ever know the whole truth as to what happened that night. My gut or mothers intuition says there is much more to this and it has even before the rumors and speculation started. To read in a hospital chart my daughter was with child was beyond devastating, then to learn he can't be charged because of the legal definition of life was even more so. To hear my daughter "chose" to get in the car is like a knife in me. She was under 21 being served in a bar and had no fake ID yet people say she made a choice to drink or a choice to get in the car? So why have drinking ages if the kids will be blamed?why have laws that PROTECT the bars? Sad to say if my daughter had been driving that night ( and her BAC was lower than drivers) and they had crashed the bar would have been held legally resistible. Yet they continue to let and encourage underage females into their business. The driver broke at least 7 laws that I am aware of yet I find out he could get as little as probation? Also we have been told "if" he does this again he will do twice the time !! So what my daughter was a test run, a pass, a lesson to be learned?

I don't blame GOD nor do I believe it was God's will to kill my child with a drunk driver. The driver had free will he chose to drink he chose to drive and alcohol is of the devil not GOD. We have received no apology and the person who took my daughters life had the nerve to ask if my family found his IPOD!! Sorry but if you are more worried about an IPOD than the fact you killed my daughter and a few weeks before court find "jail house religion" I have a hard time having sympathy or compassion for you. I know someday I am supposed to forgive but when you lie to the police saying my daughter was driving I have a hard time getting to forgiveness. The bottom line is we all lost a child the pain is beyond belief let alone the words to describe it. No matter how they passed its still hurts.

sorry if it sounds like I am ranting court soon and my nerves are shot

Love Hugs Prayers .. for some reason it wouldn' t post as a reply?

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JD's Mom, Becky

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Thank you Kate, for your apology. I accept it.

I am not usually one to quit, give up, or walk away, but when I read your post, it was like someone had invaded my home and punched me in the gut. I had felt safe here, knew it was a public forum, and that as such I had to be careful how much I say, because the case with my son is ongoing, and maybe because I can't be completely open, you had a false sense of the type of person the driver really is.

Your post was just above the one that Rhonda had just written, in which she talked about how her son died. From drinking two beers and taking pain meds. Then I read your post, and it said something like we can't blame God, because God didn't pour the alcohol down their throats, or give them drugs! You went on to say that OUR kids all made mistakes, and some of those mistakes had cost them their lives. Then further down you said the thing about the driver that hit my son would pay for it by having to live with it, and that was retribution enough....

It's a bit hard to forgive someone that hasn't asked to be forgiven. She has lived and continues to live her life by a completely different set of standards that I have. I doubt seriously she feels any remorse, other than the fact that she has lost some friends because of how she is living, and the fact that she has never apologized to us. She has long had a problem with substance abuse, and if the laws here had only included an open container law, she would have been tested and more than likely would be in jail.

I know we all tend to put things into categories, dependant on what our own life experiences have been. I did the same thing! When I was told who hit my son, and that she was so distraught at the scene, my very first thought was mingled with the memory of my own mother accidently hitting a little girl once that walked out between two parked cars. My mother dropped to her knees there in the road and prayed to God to let her be alright. Not because she was responsible, because she was not at fault, but because she is a Christian woman and felt compassion for this young girl. The little girl came to by the time paramedics got there, and only suffered a broken arm. In my mind, when the police told me about my son, that is the picture that came to me, and I told my whole family that the driver was upset and didn't mean to hit him, that it was unavoidable, and that she didn't have a cell phone, because THAT IS WHAT THEY TOLD ME. It was WRONG! Wrong and incomplete information to say the least.

Someday, when the dust settles, I will tell you all the reasons I continue to pursue the truth, and why I feel it is so important to hold the driver accountable. I can forgive truth, but not lies and excuses.

I am sorry for your illness, Kate, and for that of your son, but you can't lump all our kids together and state they all made mistakes, or exercised free will. Even if some did make mistakes, I am certaintly not going to point it out, as that is not helpful, and not compassionate at all. Some have died from physical illnesses, and others at the hands of others, so what mistake did they make?

I am trying to deal with everything going on in my life in the most positive way that I can. I am not taking any medications, other than the ones for my diabetes and blood pressure, which existed before this happened, and don't intend to. Sure, there are days when I would love to stick my head in the sand, or under the pillows and not have to face the day, as I am sure all here have. All I want is the truth to be known. Maybe the purpose of this event was HER wake up call, and I want to make sure she gets it, before someone else has to die, and so my son didn't die for nothing.

Becky...I read your post and in reading it it did sound awful. I am so sorry that it came out this way. I did not intend it to be offensive. That is the trouble with computers and not speaking face to face. We are often misunderstood. Yes, I do agree that this woman should be held accountable for her actions. I somehow felt she had offered an apology when she came to your home...or why else come? It is none of my business about this situation and I do not want to say anything further to cause problems. I only hope that another life is not lost in all of this. I truly hope that you will succeed in having the speed limit lowered on your road. It was a terrible thing that happened to Jared and I am so sorry. Good luck in your quest.

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tobyfreefoot

vivian-your post is so true. it is so lonely isn't it? that is why i'm here. i can't share it much with people who aren't on the same road and it helps to know others are going through similar things, share their insights and sympathy. i appreciate everyone of you.

maddy-you brought a smile to my face when you wanted to know if you were just crazy and emotional. i know i am! i figure as long as we are just stating our own beliefs or expressing what has helped us as far as faith goes that is ok. none of us are going to believe exactly the same anyway. i often get inspiration from those who look at things differenly than i do.

carol-so glad to hear your good news!

susan-i have so many of the same feelings and reactions you have.

i've been on antidepressants for years. i was diagnosed with fibromyalgia several months ago. they put me on cymbalta and took away the other. i would visit with my doctor and tell her i was ok except i just didn't care about anything. i just felt void of anything. she started adding a little of the old antidepressants. she made me come back every month. i finally stenciled my bathroom. it is the first thing i've done that wasn't mandatory in nearly nine months. that was such huge progress for me. plus last week i went outside and gathered some rocks for a patio. i don't know if it is the time passing or the antidepressants. i realize most people are opposed to them and taking them to manage grief but i have been on them for nearly 20 years already. the cymbalta was for pain but it is also an antidepressant so i don't know if i am just so chemicalized i can't cry or what. i feel sort of numb but am now able to do some things. i also have that unbelievable thought that runs through my head. forest is dead? i can't or won't believe it. sometimes i think i just won't listen to it, other times i think i am excepting it and thankful i got to be his mom but i know when i force myself to be in it i am a wailing wreck. i don't know if i am self indulgent by wallowing in my grief or if it necessary to work through it a little at a time or just what but somehow i think it is freeing. i usually go by myself to lose it. i do know like everyone else i want my child back. i also know that i am so blessed to have had such a wonderful son and relationship. that sometimes that alone sustains me and i wouldn't trade my life for anyone else's. that old adage of better to have loved and lost than not loved at all rings true for me. would i avoid this pain by never having him? NO HOW NO WAY. worth every bit of pain and more. i would do it over and over again if i had to just to have him for the time i did.

i love you forest dayne sharp

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JD's MOM Becky

I haven't been able to post everything either because of "the case pending" , I have a million unanswered questions that I "need" answers to not really "want" answers to. Honestly I doubt I will ever know the whole truth as to what happened that night. My gut or mothers intuition says there is much more to this and it has even before the rumors and speculation started. To read in a hospital chart my daughter was with child was beyond devastating, then to learn he can't be charged because of the legal definition of life was even more so. To hear my daughter "chose" to get in the car is like a knife in me. She was under 21 being served in a bar and had no fake ID yet people say she made a choice to drink or a choice to get in the car? So why have drinking ages if the kids will be blamed?why have laws that PROTECT the bars? Sad to say if my daughter had been driving that night ( and her BAC was lower than drivers) and they had crashed the bar would have been held legally resistible. Yet they continue to let and encourage underage females into their business. The driver broke at least 7 laws that I am aware of yet I find out he could get as little as probation? Also we have been told "if" he does this again he will do twice the time !! So what my daughter was a test run, a pass, a lesson to be learned?

I don't blame GOD nor do I believe it was God's will to kill my child with a drunk driver. The driver had free will he chose to drink he chose to drive and alcohol is of the devil not GOD. We have received no apology and the person who took my daughters life had the nerve to ask if my family found his IPOD!! Sorry but if you are more worried about an IPOD than the fact you killed my daughter and a few weeks before court find "jail house religion" I have a hard time having sympathy or compassion for you. I know someday I am supposed to forgive but when you lie to the police saying my daughter was driving I have a hard time getting to forgiveness. The bottom line is we all lost a child the pain is beyond belief let alone the words to describe it. No matter how they passed its still hurts.

sorry if it sounds like I am ranting court soon and my nerves are shot

Love Hugs Prayers .. for some reason it wouldn' t post as a reply?

I have to say this...I am astounded at how lax your laws are. It is a definite up here that a person in an accident that has liquor on their breath is forced to take a breathalizer test. There are no options. If you refuse. Jail and car impounded. Drinking and driving is a huge... and I mean huge offence. The kids up here have designated drivers when they go to parties or are drinking at social events. They take turns not drinking. If caught the legal implications are so bad they won't risk it. Fines are huge and cars impounded. The young man at the end of our road was caught with liquor on his breath while driving about a year ago. They took his license away for a full year! He had to have somebody pick him up for work every day. He sure thought about that when he took his next drink.

The Mounties have a huge program in place about drinking and driving. They hide on roads in rural areas, in back lanes, around bars, etc. and pull cars over all the time to just check. Everybody just knows they have to be careful or it is a huge risk to get caught. We see it all the time when out at night. Perhaps stricter laws should be enforced. Definitely no open bottles of liquor either.

Drinking and driving is a bad mix.

Drinking in bars is also strictly monitored. They always check ID's. It's a given.

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JD's Mom, Becky

<3

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To All, it makes my heart smile to see that folks are here and reaching out with peace and hope.

Carol-WHHHooo-HOOO, great news, thanks for sharing. I am very happy for this wonderful turn.

the sky is deep blue with thunder and a blast of rain, much needed rain. It was 87 today and yesterday, 80's for a full week or two prior with no rain, no rain and very little ground water since we had so little snow. SO come on rain.

I am meeting my friend Mari for an early drink and dinner. It is good to know that I will sit with her and relax a bit. Until later tonight, have a great evening.

I want to join the conversation about denial, and about lonliness I will try later.

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Let me start off my post by saying IT IS BENIGN!!!!The nodule thry found on hubby's liver has been determined to be benign! The doctor just called a bit ago and he said he was quite surprised, considering the circumstances. We feel so very blessed right now. Thank you all for your support, prayers, and good thoughts. Thank you so very, very much.

Maddy...your post about questioning whether it is 'okay' to speak of religion, faith, etc., here. All along, it has always been okay to speak of such things...those here have always seemed to speak of how they feel, asking for prayers or good thoughts, whatever they feel comfortable doing. I personally have frequently spoken of my faith, young Mike's faith, etc., and have always felt comfortable doing so. Others speakmof spirituality, and others have just come out and said they can't or don't want to go there for various reasons, and that has been fine. I guess that, like with everything else, we aer free to speak of our own experiences, beliefs, etc., and it is just that...our own. We speak here of our own grief, our own pain, and we are just sharing, which is how I have always felt about the faith or God issue...it is our own, and we are not trying to convert or influence or deny anyone ele's belief system. I hope I've given you a clearer picture of what you have asked about, without seeming to be intrusive on anyone else's feelings about it.

I would like to,post more, saying hello to all, but my computermis broken and this tablet is about out of juice and I still have to post the good news on hubby's CarePages website. I will be back later, after I've charged up my tablet.

Love to all.

Carol,

Thank God for the good news!!

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Yippee....so happy for the news Carol, {{cyber hug }}laugh.gif oh, joy!

Okay, I am at school and going crazy with this graphic stuff, so I jumped over here to visit :-) Thank you so much to everyone who answered my post. I appreciate it so much. Also,

Love,

Maddy

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1332447826' post='85780']

It's behind us, Kate. I am better today.

I think the driver came because we are in such a small community, that we had friends in common, although I never knew her. Our mutual friends and acquaintances insisted she needed to come answer my questions, and that she needed to apoligize. What she did was come and start right out with a BOLD lie. She said she had miscarried a baby after the crash, and that turned out to be a lie, as she is still pregnant. She told that to me and my family and also to the police and her own friends. One of our mutual friends, who happens to work at the hospital where she claimed to have been hospitalized, looked it up and called her out. She was never there at all! I can't imagine that she didn't think enough ahead to know eventually people would know that to be a lie. She didn't apologize at all. What she did say, now conflicts with what she told police that night, but it is too late for them to do what they should have done at the time, and that would have been to test her.

That's only a small tidbit of the tangled web she has woven her life into.

Hi Becky -I can relate a bit. The stupid moron who took the life jacket off my precious baby didn't try to contact me before her funeral. Then at the funeral she came up and said, I'm sorry for your loss. What the? Then later during the legal battle, she decided to deny that she had taken it off at all! This is after she said she did t to my husband while they were doing CPR on Charlotte. She also said that in the police report so everyone knows she's lying. This is a person who is a mom herself! It just rubbs salt in an already open wound.

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1332447826' post='85780']

It's behind us, Kate. I am better today.

I think the driver came because we are in such a small community, that we had friends in common, although I never knew her. Our mutual friends and acquaintances insisted she needed to come answer my questions, and that she needed to apoligize. What she did was come and start right out with a BOLD lie. She said she had miscarried a baby after the crash, and that turned out to be a lie, as she is still pregnant. She told that to me and my family and also to the police and her own friends. One of our mutual friends, who happens to work at the hospital where she claimed to have been hospitalized, looked it up and called her out. She was never there at all! I can't imagine that she didn't think enough ahead to know eventually people would know that to be a lie. She didn't apologize at all. What she did say, now conflicts with what she told police that night, but it is too late for them to do what they should have done at the time, and that would have been to test her.

That's only a small tidbit of the tangled web she has woven her life into.

Hi Becky -I can relate a bit. The stupid moron who took the life jacket off my precious baby didn't try to contact me before her funeral. Then at the funeral she came up and said, I'm sorry for your loss. What the? Then later during the legal battle, she decided to deny that she had taken it off at all! This is after she said she did t to my husband while they were doing CPR on Charlotte. She also said that in the police report so everyone knows she's lying. This is a person who is a mom herself! It just rubbs salt in an already open wound.

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I have to say this...I am astounded at how lax your laws are. It is a definite up here that a person in an accident that has liquor on their breath is forced to take a breathalizer test. There are no options. If you refuse. Jail and car impounded. Drinking and driving is a huge... and I mean huge offence. The kids up here have designated drivers when they go to parties or are drinking at social events. They take turns not drinking. If caught the legal implications are so bad they won't risk it. Fines are huge and cars impounded. The young man at the end of our road was caught with liquor on his breath while driving about a year ago. They took his license away for a full year! He had to have somebody pick him up for work every day. He sure thought about that when he took his next drink.

The Mounties have a huge program in place about drinking and driving. They hide on roads in rural areas, in back lanes, around bars, etc. and pull cars over all the time to just check. Everybody just knows they have to be careful or it is a huge risk to get caught. We see it all the time when out at night. Perhaps stricter laws should be enforced. Definitely no open bottles of liquor either.

Drinking and driving is a bad mix.

Drinking in bars is also strictly monitored. They always check ID's. It's a given.

The laws here are so so it's the penalty that is a JOKE the driver had a suspended DL for over five years and drove anyway and now LAPD wants to STOP impounding cars that is crazy. People will drive a friends

car or relatives car because the penalty if caught with no DL or suspended DL is a joke. The sad part is we have something called Watson Murder Law but to use it yuo have to KILL someone will DUI and then sign you have been told about the law and when you kill again you will be charged with second degree murder .. so my child is like a pass or learning experiance?

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