Loss of an Adult Child

[westleysmom]

Maddy-I'm so with you when it seems that my prayers before were apparently unheard or ignored, so what difference does it make now? It makes me feel bad that I think that way, but somehow I can't change it. My husband gets to hear it too, but not very often. I mostly just keep it to myself that I now doubt that what I pray for makes any difference one way or the other. When people say that God saved someone they love from an accident or illness or something, it makes me question why? Not why did He save them, but why didn't he save my boy? Why couldn't I get a miracle? What is wrong with me that I got to bury my only son before he could even take a legal drink?

Amber's Momma-I'm so sorry for your loss and that justice may not be served.

Becky-Your poems always say what I think and wish I had the words to say.

Darlene-I'm so glad your son Tim is better and hope he will get the help he needs to get through this.

Hope you are all having a good day if there is such a thing for us. I've been really down and don't have much to say, just tired and teary these past few days.

[RMoore]

Amber is so beautiful! I did a photoshop pic of her quite a while ago, but haven't seen you on here to send it to you. I hope you like it! I am so very sorry about the disposition of the case. I didn't get any satisfaction from the criminal side of my son's death either, but now am in the process of a civil suit. My heart to you.

Just been a littke overwhelmed by the system and lack of support out there for the victims family its so crazy and sad. The support here is all I have and it does help.

I think it's going to be a very long week waiting to see what happens this time. The pic is so pretty thank you so much, hope to find you in the chat soon

Love Hugs Prayers

Ambe's momma

[RMoore]

Maddy-I'm so with you when it seems that my prayers before were apparently unheard or ignored, so what difference does it make now? It makes me feel bad that I think that way, but somehow I can't change it. My husband gets to hear it too, but not very often. I mostly just keep it to myself that I now doubt that what I pray for makes any difference one way or the other. When people say that God saved someone they love from an accident or illness or something, it makes me question why? Not why did He save them, but why didn't he save my boy? Why couldn't I get a miracle? What is wrong with me that I got to bury my only son before he could even take a legal drink?

Amber's Momma-I'm so sorry for your loss and that justice may not be served.

Becky-Your poems always say what I think and wish I had the words to say.

Darlene-I'm so glad your son Tim is better and hope he will get the help he needs to get through this.

Hope you are all having a good day if there is such a thing for us. I've been really down and don't have much to say, just tired and teary these past few days.

Try reading The Shack.. it was very comforting to me and if nothing else it opens up your mind and gives food for thought <3

I have had a rather trying day myself today seems the numb is wearing off now..

Tears..

If tears could wash away the pain, the pain would have been gone so long ago

the pain of so many who love you and I love too, their pain would be washed away a million tears ago..

if the tears could bring you back, you surely never would have left and we would have never seen you go..

if tears were gathered together they'd surely over flow the sea

I wish the tears could tell you , how much you mean to me

The tears can't heal a heartache or bring you back again

I can only hold the tears so long, until they burst from within

[Maddy6]

@

[RonnieAlt]

Maddy,

I feel the EXACT same way, and I have said it so many times before Cherry died. I saw her brought back from the brink of death, when doctors said there was no hope many times. I prayed and fasted and sat by her side in ICU, one time for over 30 days with Endocarditis. I begged God to heal her and let her live. I thought He answered those prayers, but if so, then why not this time?

Cherry died 9 days before she actually passed away, and was resuscitated at that time. After that incident, I got to talk to her frankly and openly and beg her to get help. They did CPR on her for 20+ minutes. I got that call in Texas while they were trying to resuscitate her in NH and called EVERYONE to pray for her. Every prayer hotline, and all my family were praying. For those 9 days leading to her final passing, I marched around my backyard day and night praying for God to deliver her and heal her from addiction. I bought airline tickets to go see her.

On the 9th day, the morning she died, I found her biological father's cell phone number online and called him after never seeing him for 28 years and begged him to pray for her and release any familial curse of addiction. I and his family had thought he was dead for over 20 years. I had to call him for the second time in 28 years the same day to tell him she was dead, he attended her wake and funeral.

So, were some prayers of mine answered and then this time not? It doesn't make sense. But then again, I feel ashamed when I see pictures of me laughing and happy, thinking how dare you to of let yourself be that carefree and happy? When soon after this tragedy was to befall me. I was unprepared for this, thinking God would just bring her out of death's grip once again and she would be fine, as long as I prayed and really believed. I am shattered in my faith,my relationships, my life is left in ruins and I must select which pieces I will hold onto and which I will not include in my new reality. I don't know what it will look like, but I may/or may not be married, I may/or may not live in Texas, I may/or may not work in the same job again, I may/or may not speak to certain people again. I am morphing and uncertainty is in every aspect of my life including what I used to believe.

[Maddy6]

Ronnie,I think we have a lot in common. I fought so hard for her when everything first started. She told me numerous times that if it were not for me she would have died. I thought it was all over with. I had let my guard down. Thing is .........I was growing weary of the fight and she probably sensed it. I think that was when she let go. I understand everything you are saying and feel your pain. Numerous times she should have died and did not. She was a large part, if notvthe main reason for our decision to remain in Texas after the storm. We were attempting to remove her from the influences in New Orleans. I have a friend that always told me how I did everything I could, how I fought for my child, how I even moved for her. Perhaps it is not a coincidence that we live so close to each other, you and I. We seem to have been in the same battle.

[RonnieAlt]

Ronnie,I think we have a lot in common. I fought so hard for her when everything first started. She told me numerous times that if it were not for me she would have died. I thought it was all over with. I had let my guard down. Thing is .........I was growing weary of the fight and she probably sensed it. I think that was when she let go. I understand everything you are saying and feel your pain. Numerous times she should have died and did not. She was a large part, if notvthe main reason for our decision to remain in Texas after the storm. We were attempting to remove her from the influences in New Orleans. I have a friend that always told me how I did everything I could, how I fought for my child, how I even moved for her. Perhaps it is not a coincidence that we live so close to each other, you and I. We seem to have been in the same battle. Your last sentence is how I feel and have felt for a long time. Love,Maddy

Maddy,

All of us here have painful wounds, battle scars. Yours and mine seem to be a mirror image of one another, maybe God put us in touch. Maybe what is, had to be, maybe what was coming in the future for each of our daughters was far worse? I do not know. I was soooooooo weary of the fight for years, each overdose resuscitation, each illness, she died 4 times in just the 9 days before her death. She swore her friends to secrecy, I found out after her death. Her many times in jail, each time I paid bail, put money on her commissary, sent bibles, books, letters, magazines and cards. Each time on her death bed, flying all her sisters to say their goodbyes. I would actually hear songs on the radio and cry and know I wanted it played at her funeral. I had to keep in touch with people I would never befriend to keep tabs on Cherry when she wasn't clean. I watched her life slip through my fingers like sand. I have cried and sobbed and begged God on her behalf all her life. Are there prayers I should be sending now on her behalf? Why did God stop answering, or did he never answer. Can the answer be a bit of both. I do not know.

Nothing is the same, nothing means the same, I was shaken to the core. I am naked, confused, and trying to clothe myself and hide my shame with the pieces. It is taking forever because I am considering each one carefully. Sometimes picking it up, putting it down, picking it back up. I am lost. To everyone around me I am insane, they do not know what to expect, never mind what to do. It is easiest for them to distance themselves. Then, they can continue to think it will never happen to them, because it is too horrifying to have to shoulder the weight of that burden. If they stay away they cannot "catch" it. This sorrow, and unbelievable grief that sucks every ounce of energy from us and then people around us wonder why we are empty shells of our former selves.

[ericasmom]

RONNIE SAID: I am morphing and uncertainty is in every aspect of my life including what I used to believe.

Absolutely true Ronnie, we do morph and we do realize that uncertainty is all we can be certain of...that what we thought was control, never was. Our belief systems, our body systems, our family systems, our friendships...so much changes in that giant heartbreak of losing a Child. All I can say here is to HOLD ON, that the basic parts of you, which may seem unrecognizable to you now, will still be there but there will surely be changes. All we can do is our best and our best in the midst of grief is taking care of ourselves.

God? Well my thoughts have always been that it is not GOD that chooses who stays and who dies. It is God in my mind, that created adn gives a place to be when our bodies are worn out, or are too damaged to live here successfully.

Maddy, the anger is natural for many of us. I do believe that anger allows survival sometimes, as the quote said, it is the foundation for some in which to live because if that anger were allowed to be sadness, one might feel crushed completely under that. Anger gives a purpose for some, sadness only provides pain and depression. So some revert to anger in most sad situations.

Ambers Mom, the video is lovely, love that song and Your Girl is beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

[Maddy6]

@

[JD's Mom, Becky]

[westleysmom]

Becky-I guess that is my dilemma. One day, I had a 20 year old son who was in good health and happy and getting ready to have his 21st birthday. That was on Tuesday. I spoke to him that night on the phone around 9:30 and he was fine, having a good time with his friends. We told each of our I love you's before we hung up and he was going to take a friend home and then be home himself. I went to bed. I woke at 5:30 to my cell phone ring where it was on the charger in the den. His friend said she couldn't wake him, his lips were blue. I ran to his bedroom, because that was where he was supposed to be, just to check so I could tell her he was here, she must be mistaken. 911 was called and when we got to the hospital, he had been pronounced and they told us. The rest of the day is not a blur, I remember almost everything that happened. Now, who in the blue hell can I get angry at that in one day, this all happened? The cause of death? Combined acute intoxication, two beers and a prescription painkiller. Two beers. Where do I direct my anger if not at God? Who could have kept this tragedy from happening? Perhaps it is not God's job to stop tragedy, but then why does everybody thank Him when tragedy is averted? It makes my head hurt and my heart hurt that I think this way, but I have been unable to think any other way since that day. Sadness and anger are not the same, but it is hard for me to feel them both at the same time. I spend time with one and then the other. I am tired of my sadness and my anger, but without them, what do I do? There have been a lot of changes in my life lately, beyond the obvious, and I think I'm just overwhelmed and weary of it all. I just want to rest and haven't been sleeping that well. At first, I didn't have any sleep problems, but now I have been waking at night, so my rest is broken and not very restful. I guess I'm whining, but that's what's going on with me.

[Jeff's Mom]

Rhonda...I have often asked myself the opposite question. Why am I not angry? Yet, I am not. We were all given free will. The opportunity to make choices for ourselves. Some have chosen poorly and paid a very dear price by losing their lives. It is not God's fault that they did what they did. He did not pour the beer down their throats or give them drugs. They did it to themselves. We are angry at the abrupt way that they left our lives. The frustration is so very understandable. We look to blame somebody...anybody that will help to lift this load off of our shoulders. But the truth is our kids did a stupid thing and paid dearly for it. And now we are having to pick up the pieces and move ahead with our lives. It is a very hard truth. One that makes is so difficult to live with. Death is inevitable. It will come to each and every one of us. When a young person loses their life at such a young age we feel so badly at a life that was cut short and a feeling of unfairness that they did not have more years ahead. I am not God...I do not begin to understand his ways. But my son's death was his own fault. I still love him beyond measure but he did a very stupid thing. And he paid dearly.

Becky...I seem to remember some time back you mentioned that the woman came to your door to speak to you. Perhaps she came to say she was sorry. I also remember you closed the door in her face. She will undoubtedly live with this on her consicience for the rest of her life. Retribution enough.

Maddy...you are doing very well. Keep up with the exercises and classes. Try as difficult as it may be to have a positive outlook. Life does continue and there is light at the end of the tunnel if you will allow it.

Anger is a human trait. It can help to release a ton of pent up emotion. But at some point you have to let it go or it will eat you alive. It is like a cancer that grows and spreads. Very unhealthy and drags you down. I will always love my son until I take my last breathe, but the simple truth is that he made a very unwise choice. I can honestly say if it were not for my belief I don't know how I could have made it through this. Just ask for his help. He's listening.

[daveydow1]

HELLO TO ALL INDIGOS.

I've been reading all the posts about anger. For me.....after nearly 9 years since Davey died, and

many many years since baby Lisa died.......I really don't know how I feel about prayer, faith etc.

Dave was already dead by the time we found out about the horrific crash that took his life.....so

there was no time to pray that God would save him. When Lisa died, we prayed the whole time

she was in ICU...24 hrs. later she slipped away. I may have been angry for a time....I guess I

was. Now, I just feel adrift. I know it sounds stoical, and I don't mean for it to sound harsh,

but for me...... The way it is...is the way it is.

Peace and prayers for everyone.

Davey&Lisasmom, Sherry

[JD's Mom, Becky]

Deleted

[Maddy6]

Kate, Becky did not shut the door in the ladies face that I remember, unless I misunderstood something. Here is a scripture.....weep with those who weep, rejoice with those who rejoice. Please try to understand that whatever Becky NEEDS to do is exactly correct. She is grieving, she needs us to weep with her and rejoice with her at the appropriate times, stand by her and support her. I am sorry and do not mean to offend you, but I think I needed to say that and stick up for her. I know you are a very kind and encouraging person and appreciate that so much. But since from how you identify yourself as a Christian, I did want to point out that verse. So please do not be offended, and maybe I am amiss to say anything.

[Maddy6]

Sorry for hogging the board today, but I read while in the gym today and I wrote something to Becky while exercising on the bike :-) I wanted to share it.

Becky, I totally understand what you are saying. After Katrina, when we finally got into a house a year later. After I was exhausted from fighting so many that would try to take advantage of us, I could not move on because I had unfinished business. Not everyone, but there were a few key people who were unethical in that they thought we were weak and vulnerable. I could not deal with ALL, but there were a few that I could. I worked till I found out who regulated them Then I reported them. I forgave when it was all over, but first, I needed to speak my piece, needed truth to be exposed. That these people in business were taking advantage of a family in distress, cause they thought they could get away with it. Cause they were greedy. This left me angry. Once I knew the authorities had received this information. The authorities then required this entity to speak for themselves and they did. And they lied. But, the complaint on more than one was filed. I could not move on until the truth was exposed. No, they didn't face any form of retribution that I am aware of, but I know the complaint was a mark on their record. I know they had to answer for their behavior to an authority over them. They truly did not pay for the damage caused that I am aware of. But I did have the satisfaction of feeling in control again. Of not feeling like a victim. I think you are saying that. You are still protecting JD. AND rightfully so. You do not want his death to be the result of his mistake when it was not his mistake. It was the responsibility of the driver to be responsible behind the wheel. You know this and you cannot rest until your voice is heard. The driver is not being held accountable by the authorities. They are irresponsible in their handling of this case. They are not hearing you, they are dismissing you. You have the innate need to speak out against this. Only then can you move on. Only then will you rest, not until you have exhausted all avenues and yourself in the process will you be free to go forward. Not until JD's name is clear. Until JD's side of the story is heard. You are a mother protecting her young. Bravo and Godspeed. We are with you all the way! Love,Maddy

[tobyfreefoot]

if i could be angry then maybe i would be able to unleash this heaviness that i will drag with me even on the most beautiful of days. but maybe i would just be putting it out in the world making it worse and it might not give me relief at all. i could blame the little girl that fell asleep and killed herself and my precious, beloved son but i just can't. many people do but it was an accident. was it dumb to drive all night, is it stupid to mix drugs and alcohol or climb to the top of dilapidated buildings? of course. do kids do those things? of course. were they stupid to do those things? no, they were kids. that's all. young people doing what they do. having a good time, making mistakes. living life with gusto. the whole reason young people are so much fun to be around. as for those that committed suicide i don't think there is anyone to blame there anymore than those that chose jack kervorkian to end their suffering of terminal disease. all i can feel is sadness for all of us. our losses are so tremendous

i found on a dating site my son had been on a quote he had posted. "i will not tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death." we are going to put it on his memorial. that he didn't die in the middle of some crazy antic is surprising. one of his friends told me when his dad came to tell him about forest he thought "this is the way he dies after all the stuff we've done?" i certainly wouldn't take away my son's lust for life just to have him back. he wouldn't be my outrageously dynamic son then.

as for god i don't believe he took my son, physics took my son. 67 miles per hour against the steel bumper of a parked semi. like sherry i feel like the way it is...is the way it is. i also feel adrift. am i resigned to the loss? what else can i be? he's not coming back. my best friend died when i was 19 and my fiance died when i was 24 so i learned more than 30 years ago there is nothing i can do about it. i search science, and read spiritual stuff, look for signs, desperately hope i reconnect with him somehow someway sometime. the more i read about quantum physics the more i realize we don't know very much at all about the way the world works.

i told my friend yesterday the best part of my life is over. he said that's not true. but i will never be as happy as i was when all my children were alive. when the canvas is torn whatever you paint is never going to be as beautiful as it could have been. we just learn to compensate the best we can i guess. what do i know? the only reason i can write this is because i live on a ton of antidepressants. good luck and love to all of you, us as we find our way through a now dimmer world.

[Susie_q512]

I haven't posted in awhile, but I have checked in on occasion to catch up on posts. There have been many that I had wished to respond to, but didn't make it back to post any replies. I've been busy at work, and then my days off seem to be spent recuperating. I'm still amazed at the amount of energy it takes to function on a regular basis. The exhaustion is overwhelming, and yet sleep is elusive. Today marks 6 months since the accident that took Shannon from me. My mind plays back everything that was being done or said in those last few hours that I had her. I ponder how life has changed, how I have changed. I recall those first hours, days, weeks and months. I haven't forgotten that time when there was nothing aside from madness, pain, longing and despair. Those emotions still exist within me, but seem to be covered by a thick layer of sadness and loneliness. Although I logically understand this reality, it still seems unreal....impossible. I cringe and shake my head when I consider what will become of me when the head knowledge penetrates my heart. Her absence is felt a bit more each day. I miss my buddy, my girl who was my shadow all the days of her life. She was not as independent as my other daughter, and so her life was very much intertwined with mine, and mine with her's. She was my companion and friend. We shared our secrets, our fears, our hopes, and our dreams. There are no other words that can be typed or spoken to capture the depth of my sorrow. I miss her with a missing that I never knew was possible.

(((Hugs))) to each of you. Each of you and your angels are in my heart and thoughts always.

[tobyfreefoot]

btw certainly and by no means do i think that becky should not pursue her case. people should be held accountable for their actions regardless accident or not the woman is responsible for the death of your son..

Sorry for hogging the board today, but I read while in the gym today and I wrote something to Becky while exercising on the bike :-) I wanted to share it.

Becky, I totally understand what you are saying. After Katrina, when we finally got into a house a year later. After I was exhausted from fighting so many that would try to take advantage of us, I could not move on because I had unfinished business. Not everyone, but there were a few key people who were unethical in that they thought we were weak and vulnerable. I could not deal with ALL, but there were a few that I could. I worked till I found out who regulated them Then I reported them. I forgave when it was all over, but first, I needed to speak my piece, needed truth to be exposed. That these people in business were taking advantage of a family in distress, cause they thought they could get away with it. Cause they were greedy. This left me angry. Once I knew the authorities had received this information. The authorities then required this entity to speak for themselves and they did. And they lied. But, the complaint on more than one was filed. I could not move on until the truth was exposed. No, they didn't face any form of retribution that I am aware of, but I know the complaint was a mark on their record. I know they had to answer for their behavior to an authority over them. They truly did not pay for the damage caused that I am aware of. But I did have the satisfaction of feeling in control again. Of not feeling like a victim. I think you are saying that. You are still protecting JD. AND rightfully so. You do not want his death to be the result of his mistake when it was not his mistake. It was the responsibility of the driver to be responsible behind the wheel. You know this and you cannot rest until your voice is heard. The driver is not being held accountable by the authorities. They are irresponsible in their handling of this case. They are not hearing you, they are dismissing you. You have the innate need to speak out against this. Only then can you move on. Only then will you rest, not until you have exhausted all avenues and yourself in the process will you be free to go forward. Not until JD's name is clear. Until JD's side of the story is heard. You are a mother protecting her young. Bravo and Godspeed. We are with you all the way! Love,Maddy

[tobyfreefoot]

this is definitely me in every way.

I haven't posted in awhile, but I have checked in on occasion to catch up on posts. There have been many that I had wished to respond to, but didn't make it back to post any replies. I've been busy at work, and then my days off seem to be spent recuperating. I'm still amazed at the amount of energy it takes to function on a regular basis. The exhaustion is overwhelming, and yet sleep is elusive. Today marks 6 months since the accident that took Shannon from me. My mind plays back everything that was being done or said in those last few hours that I had her. I ponder how life has changed, how I have changed. I recall those first hours, days, weeks and months. I haven't forgotten that time when there was nothing aside from madness, pain, longing and despair. Those emotions still exist within me, but seem to be covered by a thick layer of sadness and loneliness. Although I logically understand this reality, it still seems unreal....impossible. I cringe and shake my head when I consider what will become of me when the head knowledge penetrates my heart. Her absence is felt a bit more each day. I miss my buddy, my girl who was my shadow all the days of her life. She was not as independent as my other daughter, and so her life was very much intertwined with mine, and mine with her's. She was my companion and friend. We shared our secrets, our fears, our hopes, and our dreams. There are no other words that can be typed or spoken to capture the depth of my sorrow. I miss her with a missing that I never knew was possible.

(((Hugs))) to each of you. Each of you and your angels are in my heart and thoughts always.

[tobyfreefoot]

double post

[Maddy6]

Gretchen, you said:

if i could be angry then maybe i would be able to unleash this heaviness that i will drag with me even on the most beautiful of days. but maybe i would just be putting it out in the world making it worse and it might not give me relief at all. i could blame the little girl that fell asleep and killed herself and my precious, beloved son but i just can't. many people do but it was an accident. was it dumb to drive all night, is it stupid to mix drugs and alcohol or climb to the top of dilapidated buildings? of course. do kids do those things? of course. were they stupid to do those things? no, they were kids. that's all. young people doing what they do. having a good time, making mistakes. living life with gusto. the whole reason young people are so much fun to be around. as for those that committed suicide i don't think there is anyone to blame there anymore than those that chose jack kervorkian to end their suffering of terminal disease. all i can feel is sadness for all of us. our losses are so tremendous

i found on a dating site my son had been on a quote he had posted. "i will not tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death." we are going to put it on his memorial. that he didn't die in the middle of some crazy antic is surprising. one of his friends told me when his dad came to tell him about forest he thought "this is the way he dies after all the stuff we've done?" i certainly wouldn't take away my son's lust for life just to have him back. he wouldn't be my outrageously dynamic son then.

What you said above was beautiful. I had never thought of some of those things, that that was what made your son who he was, and what his friend said. Also, the quote is so wonderful. You have no idea how what you wrote today has comforted me. I will also say this because you mention a canvas. As an artist, I learned a long time ago, shoot, even taught my art students. There are no mistakes in art. When I make what I perceive to be a mistake on the canvas, I assume it was meant to be there. Often, the extra work I go to trying to 'fix' the mistake, or altering the canvas to 'accommodate' the mistake, turns into the most beautiful part. Shoot not often.....99.9% of the time. Ask any seasoned artist. We all know this. Go with it, just go with the mistake and it is going to carry you to beautiful places beyond your own imagination. In light of that, if our lives are God's canvas and I lean into it, I go with it, I not only accept, but embrace my lot in life, the outcome of my daughter's life.......is it possible that perhaps there will be beauty? Is this even a possibility, or a thought I can entertain?

Love,Maddy~~~~~~~~~~the message board hog today;-)

[JD's Mom, Becky]

<3

[Jeff's Mom]

Maddy, thank you for your support and understanding! That is why we find ourselves here, right? To love and support each other through this painful, devestating walk we find ourselves on? To give and receive what the outside world is not able to give or understand?

If not for you, I would have chunked my computer out the window in despair, as in the moment I read that post that misrepresented what I said and did, I felt like I was back in the office of the AG with their callous remarks. You are right, they weren't listening, they didn't care. The difference being that their feelings and remarks were because they have never personally experienced what a parent feels at the loss of a child, and don't have the desire to move heaven and earth to right a wrong.

I know Kate never intended to hurt me, or the other parents she alluded to, but it for sure touched a nerve. I didn't expect it here, and it hurt like hell! I haven't cried that hard in a while. Thank you for reaching out to me with love and concern.

Rhonda, Hang on! I know you probably didn't take those remarks well either, and I am sorry. (((hugs)))

Gretchen, I loved that quote from your son!

You are right Becky. I never intended to hurt you. And for that I am sorry. I respect all of you that are feeling so miserable in the loss of your children. I understand perfectly your situation. But as you are entitiled to discuss anger I feel that I should also be entitled to discuss forgiveness. By the way. I was raised as a Roman Catholic. Attended a private girls school and attended mass on a regular basis until I married. I have not stepped foot in a church more then a few times since...last Sunday being one of them. I feel deep compassion for all and that includes people who have made mistakes. Yes, we need to be held accountable for our wrong doings but at what point is enough a enough? Some people can be held in a prison by others not learning to forgive. I have lost much in my life. More then I care to disclose on a public forum. So much so that many would have taken my son's route had they gone through this. I try to remain positive and as upbeat as I am able. I could easily have spent the time hating many and wanting to see them pay or fairness. Life is not fair. Bad things happen to good people. And I also know that people can find themselves in bad places and make mistakes they regret. There is goodness in each and every one of us. Jeff's death was a crushing blow. He taught me more about forgivness then I could ever have imagined. He worked with street people and saw the worst of life. He also saw the generosity of spirit and goodness in many. Not all. Some were just plain bad. But now after two years I am not ashamed to say I am feeling so much better then I did at that time. Becky, in time you too will find peace and move ahead carrying Jared with you in your heart. But I do hope for peace for that woman as well. I hope that she can recognize what she has done and live her life in a positive way.

[Deana]

I wish I had the words! But know that I know your feelings! HUGS!

I haven't posted in awhile, but I have checked in on occasion to catch up on posts. There have been many that I had wished to respond to, but didn't make it back to post any replies. I've been busy at work, and then my days off seem to be spent recuperating. I'm still amazed at the amount of energy it takes to function on a regular basis. The exhaustion is overwhelming, and yet sleep is elusive. Today marks 6 months since the accident that took Shannon from me. My mind plays back everything that was being done or said in those last few hours that I had her. I ponder how life has changed, how I have changed. I recall those first hours, days, weeks and months. I haven't forgotten that time when there was nothing aside from madness, pain, longing and despair. Those emotions still exist within me, but seem to be covered by a thick layer of sadness and loneliness. Although I logically understand this reality, it still seems unreal....impossible. I cringe and shake my head when I consider what will become of me when the head knowledge penetrates my heart. Her absence is felt a bit more each day. I miss my buddy, my girl who was my shadow all the days of her life. She was not as independent as my other daughter, and so her life was very much intertwined with mine, and mine with her's. She was my companion and friend. We shared our secrets, our fears, our hopes, and our dreams. There are no other words that can be typed or spoken to capture the depth of my sorrow. I miss her with a missing that I never knew was possible.

(((Hugs))) to each of you. Each of you and your angels are in my heart and thoughts always.

[Deana]

I see that a few have anger and many don't. Bless those that don't!. As we each have different ways to deal with the same kind of lose. I think maybe sometimes I use my anger to hide the most deep darkest feeling I have. The one of lose. Thank you DEE for your help. I try each day to read and respond, but still cannot do that. The more I read the more my head spins. Please know that you are all in my thoughts and prayers.

[dwsmithrn]

sadness takes over my heart and soul, more so than usual, as i read and reread the posts that i have missed over the last few days. i am saddened by the hurts hurled to one another once again. whether purposefully or not, one can read between the lines. no one here is better than another. on one here is supposed to question one's ability to grieve in one direction vs. another direction. no one here can say whether their way is the 'right' way vs. someone else's way is the 'wrong' way. we are not allowed to question one's faith here on this site. i am not emotionally stable to come here and question anyone for the way they feel, think, grieve, say, or how they handle their personal life or spiritual life. it is up to each individual.

i am really upset once again.

i DO NOT believe that my son had 'free will' when he took his life. i am offended by this statement. i am sorry for those who do not agree with this statement, but for me, this is what i do believe. my son had severe depression and quite possibly (as we look back) bi-polar.

when people have mental illness, there is no such thing as 'free will'....they are sick and do not know what they do...if you are super religious, you can investigate in the Bible and educate yourself on the subject. i did just that with not one pastor, not two, but three...including the one that found Nathan. i learned alot. things i did not know. so, if you want to know about the TRUE meaning of "free will" and the TRUE meaning of "God's will", then do yourself and others the courteousy of educating yourself before speaking out on the subject before you offend someone who is seriously grieving the loss of a child to suicide. it is just as gut-wrenching pain as any other loss and not their own doing.

i am sorry if i am coming on so strong, but i am so tired of hearing the same old things over and over again about losing my son and knowing in my heart that my child would not have done this if had not been so terribly, terribly sick. this was not my son. he had nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to hide, no money problems, no tax problems, no drug problems, he was good, and caring and loving, was well-educated, owned 3 homes, had lots of friends and a loving family. he was simply sick.

this was NOT "God's Will"....this was NOT "His own doing"....this was NOT his "FREE WILL"...this was NOT just his way of "Getting out of a situation"...it was NOT "his time to go"....he WAS SICK.....

does not make it any easier for me to handle...my heart hurts all the same. my soul hurts. i am mad, yes. do i have someone to blame, yes. do i want to blame God? YES!!!! he could have saved my child!!!! YES!!!! i am not ready to darken the doors of any church and say it is ok. i do not understand any God that can say "Let me take your child away, now come here and let me comfort you.!" that is a crock.... and that's the way i feel. it may go away as time passes and it may not. i can't say for sure. i just know that i miss my child. i have said before that my head, heart, body and soul are constantly at war and no one is winning.

i am depressed and i still struggle to get up each and every day. sleep is still hard to come by. food, well, i am eating better and i can say that my weight is up to a whooping 93#....yiippee.... will it stay there, maybe, maybe not. somedays i feel like eating, somedays, i don't. somedays i feel like staying in bed, somedays i get out of bed. i am a mess.

i don't even know what i am saying right now. i don't know whether to post this or delete it.

if i post it, wiill you all eat me alive, i don't know. is is worth the risk? i don't know. i thought this site was made for us to say what we feel when we feel it. i know i can depend on some of you to just read and say, 'ok, that is what you are feeling today, and that's ok.'....

iam not writing to offend anyone here....we are all here because we lost someone so precious to us that we cannot move...we cannot function...we cannot forge ahead...we cannot think....we are just 'here;.....and that is all.

so, here goes nothing....

again, i am not trying to make a scene or offend....i am just getting some things off my chest and if it offends, then i won't post again.

love, diane

[Jeff's Mom]

Wow Diane, I read your post and am glad that your were able to get that off of your chest. I am sorry that your son died under those circumstances. If you were at all familiar with me you would also have known that that is exactly what killed my Jeff. He was a good kind hearted and well loved young man. But he suffered from severe depression. He did not have other issues that could be held against him. Yet, having said that... even if he did,... my point is that it would not matter. These kids made mistakes. They did not intend to end up this way. I will not tell anyone how to grieve. I simply don't care. Not now. And as far as mental health issues? Well, I am as educated on this as you are. Since I came to this site I have been criticized constantly for my views. Too upbeat...to happy. Sorry. I too watched as my son died before my very eyes and was unable to save him. I prayed to God to help. But I will not turn against him because he did not. Free will? He was ill as well. But he did take his life and try as we do we cannot blame anybody else.

You want to talk about losses. Try losing your family business after forty-six years. Buildings and your home. Savings, everything. Five family members dying over that period that you have to care for. All alone with no help! A heart attack, a minor stroke, a broken wrist , and watching your son die before you. Heck those are but a few. Being abused as a child I should throw in as well. Yet, I try to be happy as best as I can. I can't seem to get it right. Always try to be good and it ends like this. So, like Susannah...I am out of here.

To those who were supportive and helpful I am forever grateful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[JD's Mom, Becky]

<3

[Susie_q512]

Geez...at a loss for words....and that's saying a lot for me as I'm rarely at a loss for words...but here goes anyway. It's been a sad day...a sad few days that have lead me to this 6 month mark. No comfort here tonight, only the dysfunction born from grief. The hurt, the anger, and the misunderstandings seem to be a common element of this new life. I see each of you hurting, and I hurt with you and for you. I'm not convinced that we struggle against each other. It seems we struggle against ourselves and the torment of such strong emotions which have become a part of who we now are. I've recently started comparing this grief, this new life, with that of a newborn babe. We are literally birthed into this new life. The initial torment is the actual birthing process, and then here we are as helpless and as weak as a newborn. At first, we can do nothing but be in this place, but slowly we start to gain focus on our surroundings. Just like a babe, it is hard to see clearly at first, and then only if something is held close and still. Gradually we begin to develop some muscle tone and strength. We begin trying to hold our head up, yet it falls to the side or forward or backward. Just like that babe, we keep trying until we can manage to strengthen those muscles. Then it's on to grasping things, or trying to reach for things. Next comes trying to sit up, only to fall repeatedly. Still we work at developing those much needed muscle, just for a little more control. Then on to attempting to crawl, to pull ourselves up, to take those first teeter-tottering steps. How many times do babies fail before their muscles are strong enough? And still they persist. Even after learning to walk, they continue to stumble and fall, to get hurt, to get back up and try again. Over those first few years, it's simply motor skills, and then it's time to learn to speak, to communicate. How long does that take? How many years? It's a process of development that takes many, many years to master. My point? It's simple really: We are all babes at various stages of development in this new life. We are each struggling to develop the muscles we need to live and function in our new lives, and we can't forget the pre-teen, teenage or young adult years of our development. Just as a child struggles against the parents, we struggle against the assaults of this new life. I think that's what I have witnessed here....just babes struggling against the new life and all it's unwanted obstacles and confusion. Prayers that you each find your footing, your balance, your way. Love to each of you.

Diane - I was impressed with your anger, and very glad that you released it. Anger can be frightening because we never can be sure what will come of it, but anger is very much a part of our pain, and to ignore it only hurts us more. Good for you!

Kate and Becky - Hoping that your break away will be brief. You both have so much to offer, and many here care very deeply for both of you.

In the heat of things going on here, only a few noticed my first post. To the few (I think 2?) who responded, I thank you for noticing me and my struggle today.

Prayers for a peaceful remainder of the evening.

[tobyfreefoot]

i have a daughter that has bi polar disorder, more likely borderline personality disorder. she is doing well right now but i have spent years taking her to the emergency room and trying to get help. once she tried to shoot herself. my boyfriend pulled the gun away as she pulled the trigger, it blew through my wall and through the ceiling. the hospital kept her three days! three days! i was so upset. there is no way i could be there every second. being the one she called in the throes of her illness i can guarantee from first hand experience she was not in control of what she was doing. just dumb luck forest or i was able to get to her the many times she had an episode.i was completely worn out, stressed out and at my wits end trying to get help. when i would get to her she was "out of her mind" i don't want to offend you with that term but i just want to let you know that in those moments she was not able to make reasonable choices. she couldn't make choices at all. she just acted. i would be mad at god too if i believed in an intervening entity. i can't believe in that kind of god. so many horrible people out there and our loving wonderful kids are dead. anyway i came here to get in touch with others that understand the loss of a child is different and greater than any other. how they died doesn't change that in anyway. my heart goes out to you.

sadness takes over my heart and soul, more so than usual, as i read and reread the posts that i have missed over the last few days. i am saddened by the hurts hurled to one another once again. whether purposefully or not, one can read between the lines. no one here is better than another. on one here is supposed to question one's ability to grieve in one direction vs. another direction. no one here can say whether their way is the 'right' way vs. someone else's way is the 'wrong' way. we are not allowed to question one's faith here on this site. i am not emotionally stable to come here and question anyone for the way they feel, think, grieve, say, or how they handle their personal life or spiritual life. it is up to each individual.

i am really upset once again.

i DO NOT believe that my son had 'free will' when he took his life. i am offended by this statement. i am sorry for those who do not agree with this statement, but for me, this is what i do believe. my son had severe depression and quite possibly (as we look back) bi-polar.

when people have mental illness, there is no such thing as 'free will'....they are sick and do not know what they do...if you are super religious, you can investigate in the Bible and educate yourself on the subject. i did just that with not one pastor, not two, but three...including the one that found Nathan. i learned alot. things i did not know. so, if you want to know about the TRUE meaning of "free will" and the TRUE meaning of "God's will", then do yourself and others the courteousy of educating yourself before speaking out on the subject before you offend someone who is seriously grieving the loss of a child to suicide. it is just as gut-wrenching pain as any other loss and not their own doing.

i am sorry if i am coming on so strong, but i am so tired of hearing the same old things over and over again about losing my son and knowing in my heart that my child would not have done this if had not been so terribly, terribly sick. this was not my son. he had nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to hide, no money problems, no tax problems, no drug problems, he was good, and caring and loving, was well-educated, owned 3 homes, had lots of friends and a loving family. he was simply sick.

this was NOT "God's Will"....this was NOT "His own doing"....this was NOT his "FREE WILL"...this was NOT just his way of "Getting out of a situation"...it was NOT "his time to go"....he WAS SICK.....

does not make it any easier for me to handle...my heart hurts all the same. my soul hurts. i am mad, yes. do i have someone to blame, yes. do i want to blame God? YES!!!! he could have saved my child!!!! YES!!!! i am not ready to darken the doors of any church and say it is ok. i do not understand any God that can say "Let me take your child away, now come here and let me comfort you.!" that is a crock.... and that's the way i feel. it may go away as time passes and it may not. i can't say for sure. i just know that i miss my child. i have said before that my head, heart, body and soul are constantly at war and no one is winning.

i am depressed and i still struggle to get up each and every day. sleep is still hard to come by. food, well, i am eating better and i can say that my weight is up to a whooping 93#....yiippee.... will it stay there, maybe, maybe not. somedays i feel like eating, somedays, i don't. somedays i feel like staying in bed, somedays i get out of bed. i am a mess.

i don't even know what i am saying right now. i don't know whether to post this or delete it.

if i post it, wiill you all eat me alive, i don't know. is is worth the risk? i don't know. i thought this site was made for us to say what we feel when we feel it. i know i can depend on some of you to just read and say, 'ok, that is what you are feeling today, and that's ok.'....

iam not writing to offend anyone here....we are all here because we lost someone so precious to us that we cannot move...we cannot function...we cannot forge ahead...we cannot think....we are just 'here;.....and that is all.

so, here goes nothing....

again, i am not trying to make a scene or offend....i am just getting some things off my chest and if it offends, then i won't post again.

love, diane

[ericasmom]

After reading today's posts, all I can say is to please take a breath everyone and realize the pain you are feeling is being felt by many, just different belief systems at work and none of those should be put down or thought of as wrong, they are simply different than your own. For those who responded so fully and angrily toward a post today, while you say that follks should be able to say how they feel here, you put her down for doing so. Remember that words on screen don't always come out with the inflection that is in them originally. Nobody should leave this place today feeling let down as this place should be the opposite of that. If you feel strongly about someone's post and feel the need to address it with more vigor, then perhaps you should do so in a private message. Remember that these conversations are born from the many emotions and wonderings and needs from the good parents that sit each day hoping to glean some good thoughts and energy. The recent talks about anger are very important talks, but then we allow our anger to spill over onto people that may have a different view.

Breathe and remember that each of us here are here as Forest's Mom reminds, because we are all missing a Child. No matter how and when. And no matter the belief system, still our Children died. Some of us get strong peace from knowing that they live on elsewhere, some don't believe that...so what? Some believe that there is free choice in all we do no matter the mental anguish, some don't, so what? We have far more important things to do here than hurt each other. We are all of us wounded deeply. Furhter wounding is not what this place has ever been.

Please start over tomorrow or the next day, but don't leave.

[Maddy6]

.Gretchen, Forest's verse that you are going to use, is my new favorite verse. I posted it on my Facebook to share how beautiful, and numerous friends love it also. You really helped me with your viewpoints and thank you again.~~~~~~~~~~~.

[Maddy6]

Double post

[Jeff's Mom]

sadness takes over my heart and soul, more so than usual, as i read and reread the posts that i have missed over the last few days. i am saddened by the hurts hurled to one another once again. whether purposefully or not, one can read between the lines. no one here is better than another. on one here is supposed to question one's ability to grieve in one direction vs. another direction. no one here can say whether their way is the 'right' way vs. someone else's way is the 'wrong' way. we are not allowed to question one's faith here on this site. i am not emotionally stable to come here and question anyone for the way they feel, think, grieve, say, or how they handle their personal life or spiritual life. it is up to each individual.

i am really upset once again.

i DO NOT believe that my son had 'free will' when he took his life. i am offended by this statement. i am sorry for those who do not agree with this statement, but for me, this is what i do believe. my son had severe depression and quite possibly (as we look back) bi-polar.

when people have mental illness, there is no such thing as 'free will'....they are sick and do not know what they do...if you are super religious, you can investigate in the Bible and educate yourself on the subject. i did just that with not one pastor, not two, but three...including the one that found Nathan. i learned alot. things i did not know. so, if you want to know about the TRUE meaning of "free will" and the TRUE meaning of "God's will", then do yourself and others the courteousy of educating yourself before speaking out on the subject before you offend someone who is seriously grieving the loss of a child to suicide. it is just as gut-wrenching pain as any other loss and not their own doing.

i am sorry if i am coming on so strong, but i am so tired of hearing the same old things over and over again about losing my son and knowing in my heart that my child would not have done this if had not been so terribly, terribly sick. this was not my son. he had nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to hide, no money problems, no tax problems, no drug problems, he was good, and caring and loving, was well-educated, owned 3 homes, had lots of friends and a loving family. he was simply sick.

this was NOT "God's Will"....this was NOT "His own doing"....this was NOT his "FREE WILL"...this was NOT just his way of "Getting out of a situation"...it was NOT "his time to go"....he WAS SICK.....

does not make it any easier for me to handle...my heart hurts all the same. my soul hurts. i am mad, yes. do i have someone to blame, yes. do i want to blame God? YES!!!! he could have saved my child!!!! YES!!!! i am not ready to darken the doors of any church and say it is ok. i do not understand any God that can say "Let me take your child away, now come here and let me comfort you.!" that is a crock.... and that's the way i feel. it may go away as time passes and it may not. i can't say for sure. i just know that i miss my child. i have said before that my head, heart, body and soul are constantly at war and no one is winning.

i am depressed and i still struggle to get up each and every day. sleep is still hard to come by. food, well, i am eating better and i can say that my weight is up to a whooping 93#....yiippee.... will it stay there, maybe, maybe not. somedays i feel like eating, somedays, i don't. somedays i feel like staying in bed, somedays i get out of bed. i am a mess.

i don't even know what i am saying right now. i don't know whether to post this or delete it.

if i post it, wiill you all eat me alive, i don't know. is is worth the risk? i don't know. i thought this site was made for us to say what we feel when we feel it. i know i can depend on some of you to just read and say, 'ok, that is what you are feeling today, and that's ok.'....

iam not writing to offend anyone here....we are all here because we lost someone so precious to us that we cannot move...we cannot function...we cannot forge ahead...we cannot think....we are just 'here;.....and that is all.

so, here goes nothing....

again, i am not trying to make a scene or offend....i am just getting some things off my chest and if it offends, then i won't post again.

love, diane

I am going to get this out into the open for once and for all. I have nothing to lose in telling this. I will not be back on this site again. I am all too familiar with the mental health care system. I have one of the biggies.The biggest to be precise. You have all been talking to a person who suffers from DID. That translates into multiple personalities. Yes, the Three Faces of Eve kind. The one that everyvbody stays clear of out of fear and ignorance. I have fought long and hard to stay healthy. And I have succeeded. With years of help I came to understand that what I had developed was NOT my fault and that it developed as a young child in order to survive. I have suffered more then I care to say. I really do not care what anyone thinks of me at this point. I am a grieving Mom as well. I came to this site in order to find peace and comfort. Instead I have been put down time and again. I choose to leave as I do not respect several of you. This is not what this site is supposed to be about. And I am quite frankly tired of it.

I will not defend my faith in God any longer. He is not on trial here. He quite simply is at times the only thing that kept me alive and going. When all else deserted me I was never alone. I simply cannot sit back and listen to him being attacked in this way. It hit a nerve. And I reacted and perhaps in a wrong way. Maddy...you above anybody else must know what it is to lose this much. Becky...when I was a girl our milkman who was a decent person accidentally killed a young boy. The boy grabbed onto the truck to go for a ride as it was very icy. His jacket got caught on the bumper. His mother in her grief went after him to the point that this man killed himself. I have never forgotten that. So much heartache and pain in what we are dealing with. When she came to your door it was out of remorse. If she had none she would not have done that at all. Oh yes, Diane...I am all too well informed about mental health issues. I sat and watched as they tried to revive my son for what seemed like an eternity. I prayed for help. Perhaps my prayers were answered. They just were not what I wanted them to be. I choose to firmly believe that he was taken to a better place away from all of this bickering and sadness. My son was in a state of deep depression. Yet, he carefully calculated and planned the procedure. It was something that he worked on for quite some time. It showed a clear head and careful planning.

And so, I am leaving this site now. I feel I will do much better on my own then going through this. Again, thanks to all who have been kind to me. I do apprecaite your thoughts. Take care.

Kate

Konnie...please just delete it all. All posts, etc. Thanks.

[ericasmom]

my heart aches to lose you Kate, from this place so please write to me and let me know how you are.

[shorty16]

Hello my friends

It will be another beautiful day in Wisconsin. 80 degrees. We have been enjoying this great weather, but not having Brian to share it with is difficult.

Many bulbs are peaking through the ground. If I could spell, I would list the flowers, but since I spell like a 3rd grader, I will not try.

In Wisconsin, Spring is time to "Roll Out The Barrels" - - Orange-Barrels,that is. Road construction everywhere.

Take Care

Huggs to all my friends

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[darlenestark]

If you are reading these words, it means you are here because you have experienced the loss of your child. That is the one common bond among the Indigo family. Just as within any family, we are all unique and our circumstances of loss and grieving are unique as well. We each have the right, I believe, to come here to express our grief, to share our love for our children, to offer words of encouragement and comfort to each other, or to just plain vent. And just as within any family, when the differences in our belief systems and our approaches to the grieving process cause discord, we have the right to express our feelings about it. That we sometimes offend each other or hurt each other's feelings doesn't surprise me, because that is what happens within all families. But we work through it, we express our opinions, we clear the air, and then we move on to what is truly our hearts' concern - our children we have lost...

This forum has been such a blessing for me. I can't find the words to express how much all of you have helped me. This is my only source for understanding, guidance, and inspiration as I learn how to live the rest of my life without my son Ali. Thank you, my Indigo family...

[darlenestark]

Colleen - You're beautiful weather has been drifting across the Great Lake Michigan to my neck-of the-woods in the southwest lower peninsula - shorst and t-shirts in March - my daughter was out working on her tan yesterday...

I lived in Milwaukee for 17 years - and it was 13 years ago today that we made our exodus to Michigan. I have three adult children living in New Berlin, and I was there last month for a week when my daughter gave birth to her twins. I remember those orange cones so well - my kids kept count of how many I nicked and knocked down as I tried to navigate the expressways. We use to escape to "The Falls" on days like this - Lannon Park was our second home, for swimming and fishing and camping. So many memories of those good times...

[robyn]

I have had to stay away for a few days- spending time with family, started the new term at school, dumb stuff- and I am saddened at reading some of the posts as I catch up with you all.

This is a safe place. We come in here and post, cry, rant, and spout all kinds of things depending on how we are feeling. We are a group that is wounded and in pain, and some days are just better (or worse!) than others. In here, we should be the one group on the planet that can forgive and tolerate each other, simply because we understand, better than anyone else, what it is we are going through. Please don't leave. We have already lost Ken, and a loss of anyone here is too sad.

Mental illness, your own or that of a loved one, is a terrible burden for the sufferer and the family. It causes so much chaos and worry, and sometimes loss. Only God knows what is going through a person's mind when they take the step that leads to suicide. No one can know what caused that person to decide that this terrible step was the only way. But He does. God decides the exact moments of birth and death for us all, but the circumstances aren't always of His choosing, even though He knows everything that will happen. I have mentioned this before- Chrissy used to always ask me "What does He want you to learn from this?", and I was led to Ecclesiastes yesterday where God, Himself, asked me the same question. I have learned, and become assured of this: We are ALL sinners, and God knows this. He also forgives before we even ask. Our sin nature does not keep us from spending eternity with Him, and Christ promised that no one could snatch us out of His hands. God does not put degrees on sin- we do that. The ONLY thing that keeps us from him is our CHOICE not to believe. I swear, I would not know WHAT to say to the mother of Christopher Hitchens, but I DO know what to say to all of you. YOUR CHILDREN ARE WITH THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. He loves them, individually and personally, and He loves YOU. And He loves them and you more than you could ever love each other.

My heart breaks for us all, but for those who lost their children to suicide, I feel even more sadness and love. Whatever demon led them to take such a terrible step, the depression and pain they felt was NOT your fault. Please remember that clinical depression, and other certain mental illnesses are MEDICAL problems, not always easily treatable with medication. No parent left behind can escape the awful fear that there HAD to be SOMETHING they could have seen, said or done. There is not. Sure, you could lock 'em in your basement, put 'em in a box, stayed with them night and day....practical? Wouldn't we all love to be able to take our kids, once they are teenagers, and handcuff them to our wrists and never let them hang with friends we don't approve of, never let them leave the house, get in a car, live far away? I want to watch any parent try THAT!

We all bump along in this life with equal portions of good and bad. Happily, our memories choose to only remember the good things, especially as we get older. Every day is a struggle, even for those who haven't lost a child. But we also have hope. We can know that THIS isn't our real life, and it isn't what God ever intended for us. As Jesus, Himself, said- we pass from death to life, not the other way around. Do I wish Chrissy had been able to stay here? absolutely! But I know, beyond ANY doubt, that she is right where she is supposed to be. I trust Him with all my heart.

I had a follow-up mammogram the other day, and it showed a new spot. Am I upset about it? Oh, HELL no! I have been ready to go home since my first diagnosis. It doesn't mean I don't love my other children or my husband just as much as I love Chrissy, it just means that there is a plan to life that we don't always know. Sometimes we get so caught up in our grief that we forget that we have stuff to do before we, ourselves, go home.

Tomorrow marks 4 months since Chrissy left and I have had a few weak moments. I wish I had spent more time with her, I wish I had talked to her more on the phone. I wish, EVERY day, that I could hold her and kiss her sweet face just one more time. But I can, and do, tell her every day how much I love her and miss her and I know she hears me. I will be with her again, but until then, God has more for me to do. It is the same for all of us. Please be kinder to yourselves and to each other. We are the second best support group possible and we can learn so much from each other.

I dearly love you all.

Robyn

[dwsmithrn]

first, let me apologize for my post yesterday....i can say with all sincerety, that it was not written with anger....and that is a fact. i was not angry when i wrote it. also, KATE, it was NOT directed at any one person. i just wrote what was on my mind at the time. when my child (32 y/0) died, i heard every excuse under the sun 'why' he died and every time someone opened their mouth (not talking about people on this site) talking about people i around this town....i heard so many reasons 'why' i should be 'thanking God' ...OMG....of course, i am mad. it is a part of grief. and guess what? God can handle it. i was raised Presbyterian and later changed to Methodist. i can safely say i am a Christian, but i am questioning every part of my religious background after losing my child. for many reasons. i can't help this...and after talking to the 3 ministers, they all said, give it time, after this type of loss, God understands. i am not saying that anyone has any better answers than another. what i was trying to say is we all go through different things during grief.

what hurt me so, so badly was when i did hear my child had 'free will' and he didn't. not in his case. and i know this with all my heart. i am just too emotionally attached to nathan to know that he was not himself in this case and i know his heart.

KATE, please forgive me for hurting you to the point of leaving. i do want you to stay here. you have some very good posts and some very good advice for people here on this site. really, i mean that with all of my heart.

my post was not made in anger and that is hard to know when things are typed out in words to read rather than said outloud to hear. if we had been talking on the phone, you could have heard my tone of voice and you would have said, 'oh, ok, that is just your opinion and that is ok'....really, i mean this...seriously.

sometimes, we just are all having a very sad day and things just spill out.

TODAY IS EXACTLY 14 MONTHS....IT IS A VERY BAD WEEK FOR ME...

also, i have a Grade II sprained ankle with a horrible, heavy boot to wear and i have to use a walker if i get up and i am depressed. (sorry...

i have been on this site for a very long time, in my world of loss that is, and i would not offend anyone on purpose. i have tried to be here for the newbies as best as i am able. i know i am not very good at helping out with the right things to say, as i am having as much difficulties as the next just getting up in the morning.

BECKY, i want you to stay, as well...i love your poems and your beautiful pictures of JD....you are an encouragement to be here. i am sorry if you thought my post was a rant and rave. i just needed to get that out....it wasn't meant to hurt anyone and i am so sorry...

PLEASE...all of you, forgive me....i did not sleep at all last night because i was so upset that i made you all so mad at me . it was really not my intention. i admit, i am very sensitive to the reason nathan is gone and the least little thing will make me react. that is the main reason i still cannot go out into public. i still can't go to work, to the grocery store, to wal-mart. i don't want people to stop me, to ask questions, to point and say, look that's the lady whose son committed suicide....it is so traumatic. i am so very sensitive and they did not know my son the way i knew my son. and no one knew him in the last few days. they did not know how ill he was so they cannot judge him...

again... I AM SO SORRY... PLEASE FORGIVE ME>>>>>

ALL INDIGOS....i am sorry....

love, diane

[dwsmithrn]

robyn...thank you for your beautiful post this morning....it hit home....yes, i do believe that nathan is where he is supposed to be, in heaven. i do believe he is out of his pain and in a place so beautiful with other family members and friends who passed before and he is now happy. i do talk to him, every day, all day. always on my mind and in my heart. i cannot and will not forget that i will see him again. i am sorry about your mammy and i will be hoping for a good outcome. please keep us informed.

Dee...everything you said is so right...thanks..always here with your heart in the right place. how i love you.

darlene....i couldn't agree more....thanks

Maddy...yes, i do understand, so many times...the thought entered my mind, but like you i have others who need me here. the pain is just so great, the thought patterns change and then we somehow get our footing again.

darlene....thanks for the understanding words

susan....thank you for 'listening'....you are so kind...

again, i am so sorry....i am sorry if my words were stinging, as i did not intend for that to come across like that. and like i said, if we had been 'talking', (and like dee had said) the inflection on the words, would have taken a different tone. you would have known that i was not angry...just expressing my self in the only way i know how.

please, can we just start over and all just "BE" here together. i can't NOT be here or you might lose another one. if i don't have the indigos, i don't know what would happen. i need this place, and this place not in turmoil all the time. i am sorry i am the one who caused the turmoil this time. not my intention...i will be careful with my words next time. i love ALL of you, i do....really

love, diane

[shorty16]

Darlene

NO WAY - Lannon Quarry is my favorite park??

It is now called Menomonee Park. Lannon Quarry being the major attraction.

I have taken my kids there since before they could walk. My daughter had her senior out-door pictures taken at Lannon Quarry.

New people to the area are amazed at the beauty of the place. The quarry is where I learned that fish bite. Yes, they bite. First they nibble, but if you do not pay attention to them, they will bite---and it hurts.

I live approx 15 miles from New Berlin in Menomonee Falls.

How wonderful

Colleen, Brian's Mother Forever

[dwsmithrn]

gretchen....thank you for the personal response. it makes me feel so much better to know that someone knows and cares. i know that nathan would not have done what he did to his mother, to his family...he loved his family so much and was such a huge part of us. he did everything with us, celebrated everything with us....was always just walking in the door and surprising us with his presence, when we least expected him to come into town. it was so wonderful. we now find ourselves watching the door, just waiting for him to walk in, knowing that he won't be making that dramatic entrance...it is a horrible feeling. it still weighs heavy on my heart knowing what he did...how he did it...where he did it. i can't seem to get that image out of my head. i think that is why i can't sleep well at night and why i have so much trouble doing anything that even resembles 'normal'...whatever that means now. i thank you for your comments as that makes me know that some one else understands the mental side of suicide, being as ugly as it is. thank you for responding....love, diane

[kmb22]

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[westleysmom]

Karen-I'm glad to see you and Shawn's smiling face. I'm sorry too for the discord that seems to be coming more often here. I was sicker than a dog yesterday with a stomach bug and probably should not have posted at all. I have felt the need to take a break every so often the last two years from the site, although I usually just fade in and out for most people, not with a bang. Sometimes it is because something has been said that I took exception to, but most often, just because I feel the need to be alone. There isn't anyone here, or anyone who has been here and gone, that I don't care about. Those who don't post often, those who do, those who have felt the need to leave, all of them are in my heart always, and their angels. Sometimes, we just disagree, and for me, that's okay.

Gretchen-I loved your analogy about the canvas being torn and tiptoeing through life. Hugs

Diane-14 months, how can it be? I know how those mini-anniversaries hurt. Sending you love

Susan-I'm sorry I missed the 6 month angelversary. That was around the time for me that I found this site, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't. I went home at lunchtime yesterday and went to bed and didn't get up until this morning, but I think I'm over it.

I hope everyone has a good day today, as good as you can anyway

[Susie_q512]

Colleen - All we have in Georgia right now is record breaking pollen!!!! Everything is yellow, and when the wind blows it causes a yellow dust cloud to fill the air. The good news is that today is overcast, so hoping it's a sign that rain will fall and wash it away for awhile. My daughter, Ragan, is a seasonal allergy sufferer and also has asthma.....she's pretty darn miserable right now.

[Maddy6]

Yesterday Gretchen posted about a torn canvas and it spoke to me. I began thinking how when I am painting. It starts out that I am in control, know exactly what I am going to do. But always in the process a misstep, slip of wrist etc. happens. Something unplanned and I never intended. I have learned with experience that when a mistake happens, then I need to work on that area of correction. I cannot ignore the mistake. I have to work on it. As I do, beauty almost always emerges. Almost always it is the mistake that I had to become creative in fixing that will be the most stunning,or beautiful. I have learned to look for my mistakes (in my artwork). To accept them and go with them. In classes I have seen less experienced artists give up in dismay. Yet when the mistake happens is when the fun begins. That is when the creativity is truly tapped into. That is when I begin to fly. It is what us artists call 'the zone.' The mistake in the artwork causes me to go in a direction I never ever intended. Causes me to rework my plans, dreams, ideas for the artwork. Every time this has happened I marvel. I marvel how it was the mistake that ultimately caused the most beautiful part of the painting. I am not sure if that is clear, or if someone who is not an artist totally follows me. ~~~~But yesterday I glanced at a picture of Racahel sleeping in her dad's arms when she was little. It was on the end table in my den. I got the warmest feeling. Did not feel pain when I looked at her picture for the first time. I had a sense of hope. Hope that a thing of beauty was yet to be created. All those thoughts that emerged when Gretchen posted about the painting came to me. I felt hopeful. I know and have known these facts about my artwork and the mistakes for a very longtime. I realized that I had to apply all the same principles as the piece of art.,lean into the mistake, go with it. Watch it transform the canvas. I realize I am God's canvas and perhaps right now I have been a brush whose hairs fall out and stick in the painting, or I have been a crusty hard old tube of paint,or perhaps I have been right where I needed to be. Perhaps I am oil paint on a painting in progress that has cured after several days, needed the time to dry, to sit and become firm, so that the painting can be continued. I am seeing so many aspects to my situation through my art. I am going to hold onto this and ponder it. Thank you Indigo's for your guidance,

~~~~~~~Love, Maddy

[dwsmithrn]

thank you rhonda and thank you karen....nuff said.....

having a day....

[Susie_q512]

Well, off to the cemetery to discuss the changes to Shannon's monument. Never imagined how difficult it would be to get it right.....once it's done, well it's done, so no making corrections then. Also never imagined I would be in this place and planning my daughter's headstone. Sucks balls