Loss of an Adult Child

[jennylinsmom]

Claudia, thanks for writing the words I needed to hear "Seldom do we know the depths of our own illness". It's been a rollercoaster past couple of weeks, and I've allowed myself to slide downhill. Trying to survive one of life's most heart-wrenching can feel like a whole-body illness (mind and body). Everything hurts, we become weak, paralyzed with grief, and doubt our reason for even getting up every day. But I had started to do what I promised myself from the beginning I would never do...I'd started to 'become my grief'. I've allowed it to fill the void so completely that I wasn't allowing ANYTHING else in. Family, friendships, work, hobbies...nothing. I've become something that just occupies space on my couch, and I'm slowly pushing the people who love me the most away. So now that I'm starting to realize the 'depth of my own illness', I've got a choice to make. Continue on a downward slide, or make my daughter (and surviving sons) proud of me. Claudia, thanks for helping to reinforce what I was starting to see.

Kathy, Bonnie, and Artina...I'm so grateful for your kind words, and for taking the time to write. I hope your lives are getting more peaceful and happier with each day you've so valiantly survived.

To everyone here...it's almost March, and Spring will soon be here! May your hearts be filled with sunshine and happy thoughts.

Laurie

[4everjoeysmom]

Laurie, May God bless you abundantly on your journey to living and finding joy again. Love, Claudia

[namarella]

Today is Eric’s friend Megan’s 22nd birthday (she was with him the night he died); tomorrow is Eric’s 25th birthday. I’ve been something of an emotional wreck this past week, dreading the coming of his birthday, wondering how one honors the birthday of a child who’s died? I’ve been waking up crying most mornings, just missing him on such a deep level, feeling pretty alone in all this, even while I know my husband is going through the same pain. When I came home from work yesterday, he told me he’d bought me some seeds to plant tomorrow (we seem to be having an early spring here), along with some peat pots and potting soil. It somehow seems very appropriate to honor our son, who so loved all growing things, by planting seeds tomorrow. We’ll play some of his favorite music (he liked songs by Cat Stevens) and light some candles. His birth day will never be the same for us, but maybe it can be a day to begin new life; planting seeds has always seemed so hopeful to me. I know others here also find small ways to affirm life and hope...for our sake and for our kids. Peace to all here, Colleen, Eric’s mom

[4everjoeysmom]

Colleen, Thinking of you as you plant seeds of new life in honor of Eric's birthday.... So soryy that you're so down. I hope the fresh air and the planting is fruitful for you. Hoping and praying for brighter days ahead... Love, Claudia

[4everjoeysmom]

I wrote this a few days ago on the Loss of a Teenager thread, and wanted to share here in case some didn't see it...

I sometimes sit in awe of how profound it is when a child is born to us. And then how awfully profound it is when that child leaves us far too soon--or at all. It's just not a natural order of things for a child to leave before the parents. It's horribly unnatural. I believe we wrestle with desperation to remember every detail of our children. And we struggle with hanging onto every little detail as proof that our children were here--a part of ths world; a part of our lives. A long time ago I remember sitting with my grandmother and looking through old photographs of my great grandparents, and their parents. I looked at pictures of relatives whose faces I never saw before, whose lives I never knew. And I wondered even then what more is left behind besides pictures for future generations to even know they existed. It's so strange recalling that now, as I must have been about 7 years old when I first had these thoughts. Now these thoughts haunt me like a whisper each day of my life as I go on in desperation to collect every detail so that I can show proof to the world that my Joey was here. THIS IS WHY I feel it so important for us to ride the waves of pain, but not let them drown us in the process. It is we who are left behind to remind the world that we gave birth; our children lived, loved and laughed. They blessed our lives and they blessed the world by being here. If we were to hide ourselves away, not living out our lives in full for the world to see, then we miss the most important opportunity of our lives; to leave a legacy behind for the world to not only know we were here, but that our children were here too! God Bless all! Love & Hugs, Claudia

[ericasmom]

Claudia, I agree wholly and I thank you again for your healing ways.

My heart,

dee

[debmay11]

It has been a long time since i was on this board...I found a "buddy"..she has the same loss as we have..loss of a son in a motor cycle accident, the accidents were just under a month apart..the boys were close in age..over the past 2 1/2 years we have come to rely on each other for support, and helping each other get through this hell we were put into..

I have to say, my "buddy" is my savior, although we live 2 provinces apart, we know everything about each other and the similarities in our families and ages is unbelievable..

Without my "buddy" i wonder where i would be today..and it scares me to think that.

I have to thank this board for the "buddy" system and hope more people take advantage of it...

my son died May 11/04 and this has been the hardest 2 1/2 years of my life..the pain gets a little easier, the tears flow a little less, but the missing and loving of my son will never stop till the day i die..I miss Ryan so much some days i wonder how i have made it..

to all you who also have lost an adult child/child your heart is forever broken, you learn to deal with the pain, just so no one will keep saying, how are you doing??? they will never understand, and hopefully they will never know..

I still have never heard a word from the woman that killed Ryan, not even a call, card, nothing...it is posted every year on is anniversary date in our local papers and a photo of my beautiful son...i hope she reads the paper and cries like i do on May 11th and every day in between...

[karenb]

We lost our son Jason on June 17th 2005. He was 24 years old. He was helping his future father-in-law at the deer lease and the deer stand fell and injured Jason and the others that were there. A week later he did not show up for work, and his fiance called his friend that worked with him and asked him to go to the apartment and check on him. He had passed away sometime that night. The autopsy says that it was blount force trauma to the brain. About 2 month prior to this Jason had totaled his automobile and to my husband and myself he just did not seem quite the same. As he lived 3 hours away from us we did not see the day to day differences that were occuting. Sleeping a lot, grouchy etc. We feel that he had a major concussion from the accident, and added to that the deer stand accident, he did not have a chance. If only we had not lived so far from him we may have noticed all that was wrong. I miss him so much. Today at work one of the teachers lost a brother to suicide and one of my husband's co-workers little brother who is 2o has cancer and the parents had to decide to take him off the ventilator. It is all around us. I want to be there for the other parents, but like all the people who tried to assist us, what can you say and do? My husband and I have a daughter who is 23 and trying to be very patient with us, as we are now overprotective, more than we were before. I guess what I want is to be able to communicate with someone who understands what I am feeling. I do not wish this on anyone. I also lost my dad in December and I am trying to help my mom with her(our) loss. Thanks for letting me get all this out.......KB

[kathy714]

Dear Karenb i am so sorry the loss of your son Jason and your dad,you have found the right place to come when you needto vent,everyone here is so understanding and we come here to do the same.I too loss my son Nathan on his 21st birthday,Jan,31,2005,iwas fortunate to find beyond indigo shortly after he passed ,andi have been coming on almost daily ever since,you and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers....T/C Kathy,Natesmom 4 ever

[karenb]

Thanks Kathy for your concern. I am so sorry about Nathan. I Know that you miss him as much as I miss my Jason. I have been looking for somewhere to be with people who understand. I am trying to understand why, but guess there really is no undstanding, just acceptance, and I am not there yet. Jason had graduated from college 6 months before he died and had a degee in marketing. He had his whole life in front of him. He had a wonderful fiance, and they were planing their wedding. My husband and I feel like we lost our future. Does anyone else feel this way? I know that it is said that with time the hurt softens, but right now it does not feel that way. I think the best thing we did for ourselves was to get a cat. Now I know to some this may sound crazy, but Zoe has been a life saver to us. Ray (husband) and I are nuts about her. I said earlier that I had lost my dad in December, but I have this sense of guilt, because my grief is so much stronger for Jason than my dad. I guess because Jason has been gone 1 1/2 year longer than dad. Does that make sense to anyone?

[ashleysmom]

Karenb, I am so sorry for the loss of your son Jason, yet I am glad you have found this site. I am also very sorry for the loss of your Dad. My Dad died two years before Ashley. It was hard, but nothing compares to losing Ashley. I remember thinking, how shocked my Dad must have been to see Ashley called home.

Ashley was 18 and had graduated from high school just three weeks before her accident. She had just started her life. It is so much harder because our children are our futures. Even though it is difficult to lose our parents, they are our past. It is the natural order of things that our parents will go before us and then in turn we go before our children. To have our children go first just doesn't make sense.

We have two boxers and Ashleys kitty. They are our lifesavers. They are always here, ready to love us when we are down. I don't know what we would do without them. I recently had to put my older dog, Molly, down. It was really difficult to say goodbye. It felt like another part of Ashley's life was gone. Everything's changing and she's not here. I am glad you were able to get Zoe and she has been so comforting. I wish you peace, Dottie

[julsmom]

Karenb - we lost our 27 y/o daughter in a one car crash on 10/13/03. She too was just beginning her life as she had graduated the previous December with a Masters in Teaching & had just begun teaching in the NYC school system. She too had a wonderful boyfriend whom I am sure she would have spent the rest of her life with. And while we have a surviving son, part of future was taken away also. We had a dog who like everyone else has said was a life saver. Unfortunately in 2005 we had to put him down. Rose Kennedy said:

It has been said that "time heals all wounds." I do not agree. The wound remains. In time, the mind (protecting its sanity) covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone.

May we all find peace and comfort as these cold winter days begin to lift and the warm breezes of spring bring us hope. Lynda

[rhonda68]

Very tuff day today this is 2 years today now. I am feeling very sad and lonely. I was going to drive to the accident site today but we had a big snowfall the roads are not that good so I will see what the day brings.

Richard James Bennett Oct 9/85 - Feb 23,2005

http://www3.telus.net/public/rh0nda/

Mom LOVES you FOREVER!

[karenb]

Rhonda, my prayers are with you today. I have my own coming up soon. Take a deep breath and just get through today, and know that others are care and understand

KarenB

love you 'round in a circle.

Jason 4-9-83/6-17-05

[namarella]

Oh, yes, I think we all feel like we’ve lost our future with the loss of our children. Our son had been through some incredibly hard times, had struggled his way out and was slowly putting his life back together, a piece at a time, when we lost him so suddenly on 1/14/06. What he could have/should have done in life will never be known, but I do know the world lost something wonderful and precious the day we lost him. We have a daughter and a grandson, who are both very dear to us, but this year has been particularly hard because our daughter has chosen to ignore her brother’s death. While he’s forever a month shy of turning 24, Eric’s 25th birthday was yesterday and it was a hard day for us. No, this isn’t the way it’s supposed to be, celebrating the birthdays of our kids who are no longer here. Others have mentioned how comforting their pets have been...we’ve sure found that with our mini-Aussie, Jesse and our two cats, Sophia and Mina. Sometimes I think we’d be lost without them! Colleen, Eric’s mom

[jasonsdad]

Seems like only women have been posting. My situation I guess was a little different, as I did most of the raising of our two sons. My wife is great, but she was abused as a child and found it hard to show affection, so she was into her job. As the kids got older she could relate to them much better.

My problem is that I have almost too many memories of Jason. Even after over 3 years he is on my mind every minute of every day. I guess I wouldn't trade these memories, but they are bittersweet. I also think I spoiled them too much in response to my childhood. That would be too long of a story. My heart goes out to all of you and I do admire your strength and compassion. Since I obviously didn't carry my son for nine months, I was in the room and cut the cord. I have never felt so much love before or since, so I can only imagine how all of you mothers must feel. I can only compare this now with waking up one morning and not being able to move for the rest of my life. I would trade that in a second. Sorry for not posting for so long, but I do read your messages and do feel your pain. Dan

[momgran]

Hello all you precious Moms (and Dads, of course).

I haven't visited this site for quite some time but I do pop in and read your heartfelt thoughts and experiences and it really does help! It was four months yesterday that I lost my precious 29 year old daughter Pippa and 4 year old grandson Kieran in a car accident. It's so very difficult to describe the journey as I see it, in retrospect, but I do know that the deep, dark fog that I've been in is definitely lifting and although the waves of pain are still excruciating at times, I feel that I am gaining more control, little by little, as each day passes. I've been reading a lot about 'letting go of the pain' and I'm starting to understand how important that can be in order to allow the memories to be joyful and their spirits to be near to our hearts. In these early days, the pain is a given, but I've started to experience moments, brief as they may be, where I can think them without such gut wrenching agony! I'm learning that these moments are a glimpse into my hopeful future and help me know that I will be able to think of them with joy one day. I also realise in the first year there are countless triggers, firsts, both small and enormous, that I have to overcome. I've worked on the principal that from the very beginning that it's important for me to confront the reality by poring over their photos and momentos and talking about them, also going to places I've shared special moments with them and listening to music that reminded me of them. For me this seems to slowly desensitize me to the pain associated with these memories. I know each of us has to grieve in our own way and respect each other's needs. I know we all need to approach these steps at different times and some find it difficult to ever visit these places or look at the momentos. Whatever works for each of us is the 'right' thing in the first couple of years. I think that although we can't put a timeline on our grief, our loss is for the rest of our lives and they will be foremost in our thoughts and hearts for whatever time we have left, that it is important not to hold onto the pain too long because it could become a 'security blanket'. I'm familiar with the emotion of 'guilt' when I realise I've gone for a longer than usual period of time without them being foremost in my thoughts and 'enjoying' myself or being lost in an enjoyable pastime or task. But I've learned to address that emotion by smiling at Pippa and Kieran and saying 'see, my Darlings, I am learning to be happy again...for you two! Please don't worry too much about me...I'll be fine!" I'm working hard at creating a website for them which I hope to have up and running by Kieran's birthday on march 23. It's been a challenge as I have NO previous experience so I've been 'teaching' myself and have had the double pleasure of learning a new skill and spending lots of time with their memories, photos, movies, letters, stories! I thank them both for being in my heart and by my side while I embark on this task.

Another observation I've had is that when I've looked at Pippa's baby and childhood photos, they haven't induced as much pain as those of her as an adult in the last few years! I realise that I had already grieved the loss of her childhood long ago. I wonder if we all do this when they become adults and face the challenges of life! It's Pippa the woman I grieve the most for and the future she will never have. Kieran is just one large heartache as this beautiful smart affectionate child will never grow up. I try to think that although he will never experienced the joys of life on this earth he also will also never experience the pain! What a waste of a fruitful young life, though. There's no getting away from it.

I see that a number of members here have been through the difficult moments of Angel Dates and Birthdays, illness and other losses in their families and I send you all my heartfelt love and thoughts. Especially to those of you who are newly bereaved. We are reluctant members of a sad club but we are all here to hold each other up as we travel this lonely road.

Love, Peace and Patience to you all.

Debbie

[donosmom]

Jasonsdad, I read your post and it brought to mind my husband. He and Matthew were great friends as well as father son. Jay was very involved in raising our kids and Matthew worked for him from about 14 till he died at 23. You commented that after 3 years your son is on your mind every moment of every day and that is exactly what my husband has said often. Matthew died July 13, 2003. It is good to hear from a fathers perspective and gives me insight to what my husband is going throug so please keep posting. I don’t post often but I read daily. Thank you.

Matthew’s Mama Mary

11-3-79 – 7-13-03

[mom2angels]

{{{Rhonda}}} ~ My candle is lit in honor of Richard, and my thoughts and prayers are with you that you will find comfort and peace today, surrounded by happy memories of your precious son.

{{{Karen}}} ~ Welcome ~ I am so sorry for the loss of your dear son, Jason, and your dad. Your grieving for Jason is incomparable to the grief you will experience for anyone else, including your dad. I agree that the primary reason is that our children are supposed to outlive us, so our loss is unnatural. Also, grief is compounding, and when we experience one loss and then another in a short period, our grief spills over from one to the other. We don't often know where it begins or ends or how much it incorporates from the rest of our experiences. Please don't carry any guilt about the way you are grieving. I'm sure that both Jason and your dad understand. It's wonderful that you and your husband adopted Zoe, as pets are healers.

{{{Colleen}}} ~ I'm so sorry that Eric's 25th birthday was so difficult for you yesterday. I have lit a candle in his memory, and I'm praying for you. I'm sorry too that your daughter's is upsetting you so much. Can you talk with her about it at all? Maybe you just need to tell her how you feel and she can tell you how she feels, and you can come to an understanding. I hope so.

{{{Dan}}} ~ It's always wonderful to read the fathers' points of view here. Obviously, it's easier for women to talk about grief (or anything!) than it is for men, so naturally this forum would attract more Moms than Dads. My husband believes that it must be harder on Moms than on Dads, primarily because we are typically the nuturers. In your case, the roles were reversed, so it's clear that you have tremendous empathy for our pain. And, I also think that most of the sympathy is directed to the Moms, which means that the Dads' grief goes unrecognized and unaddressed. So, please know that I understand that your pain, and the pain of all Fathers who have lost their children, is profound. Jason is on your mind every minute of every day because you love him, and he is still with you. You are so right --all of this, all of our grieving, is so bittersweet.

{{{Debbie}}} ~ I'm so glad that the fog is lifting a bit for you and that you are finding strength and comfort in creating a website for Pippa and Kieran.

{{{HUGS}}} To Everyone ~ Every day, I pray for your strength, peace and comfort and that you will feel your children's presence very near and hold them in your dreams ~

Blessings to all ~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[daveydow1]

Debmay11,

I know how you feel. The truck driver who killed my

son, David, has never contacted us in any way either.

It has been nearly 4 yrs. since the crash, and we don't

really expect to ever hear from him. I guess these people

who are responsible for taking a young life either feel

ashamed of themselves, or are just interested in getting

themselves out of it and putting it all behind them---to

just forget about it. I,too, have a memorial in our

newspaper on David's angel day every year. Who knows

whether this guy even reads the paper. I hope that woman

sees your son's memorial and at least feels some remorse.

Peace be with you.

Daveysmom, Sherry

[daveydow1]

Karenb,

It is entirely understandable that your grief is

more acute for the loss of your son than for your

father. My father died a few years before my son,

Davey, and, as with you, my grief is so much more

agonizing for my son. I loved my dad, and was close

to him, but as someone said---it is in the natural

order of life to lose a parent--even though it hurts

so very much. But, to lose a child is all out of

order, and so very devastating. Peace be with you, Karen

Daveysmom, Sherry

[daveydow1]

Jasonsdad,

My husband also says he thinks of our son, Dave,

every minute. They were very close. Your son,

Matthew passed just one month after our son (6/14/03).

I'm sure that time has not much meaning when it comes

to the sad road of grief that we are all on here at

BI. I think we all will miss our children until the

day we die, as someone on an earlier post said. I

pray you will find peace.

Daveysmom, Sherry

[mom2angels]

{{{HUGS}}} To Everyone ~

It's rare when a day goes by without anyone posting here, let alone two days.

I'm hoping that all of you are resting, taking care of yourselves, and doing something uplifting and healing for yourselves. I'm hoping that the happy memories of your children are tenderly replacing the sad ones. I'm hoping that you are finding the strength you need to cope and continue forward on this very tumultuous journey. I'm hoping that you feel cared for, prayed for, and loved, because you are.

As you yearn for your children, remember that they are still with you -- in a different form, a different dimension, a different realm -- but still with you. And, even when we don't recognize their signs or see them in our dreams, they are still with us. It's only natural to long to see, feel, touch, smell our children again, because our relationships are tied to the physical while we inhabit the human body. We need to hone our spiritual senses to appreciate fully the amazing relationship we now have with our children. That means letting go of our dependency on the physical and focusing our energies on finding the spiritual connection to our children. I can testify that there is comfort there, as I have found it with Michael.

Open up your souls to your angels ~ they understand, and they will be there for you.

My candle is lit for all of you, and as always, I pray daily that God will grant you peace and comfort and that you will feel your children's presence very near and hold them in your dreams ~

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[kathy714]

Hi Everyone,i am just checking in to say hi ,i have been working the last 4 days,and i do 12 hour shifts so i basically work and sleep. i know there is a new message board so i guess many have gone there,i agree with mom2angels ,i have never seen when this board has been empty for more than a day.I think it makes me feel a little sad,i have come here for so long and it is home to me,i hope it doesn't stay quiet in here for long,i miss everyone.Today in the market I hadone of those head turning experiences where i sawa boy who looked just like Nathan, he was cashier on one of the registers,i hope he didn't notice me staring at him for about 5 min....T/C Everyone,you are all inmy thoughts and prayers,Kathy,Nate's mom 4 ever

[rhonda68]

I am still here, just exhausted after my sons 2nd angel date. Thank you all for your thoughts.

Richardsmom

[donosmom]

I'm still here too, I know another board has been started and I go there and read the posts but this board is still home for me as well.

I am giving the program in March for our chapter of The Compassionate Friends and it is on memories and mementos I would like to know some of the different things people have done in memory of their children. If you all would please give me your ideas I would appreciate it.

I have been having some really hard days, we just found out that our youngest daughter is pregnant and what should be a time of joy has me fearful for both her and the baby. She has had such problems emotionally and behaviorally since Matthew died. But I know that in my prayers and talks with Matthew I asked him to get inside her head and help her straighten her life out. Since she found out she was pregnant she has moved back home, got a job, and quit smoking so maybe just maybe this is the answer and Matthew did get inside her head. I pray so.

Matthew's Mama Mary

11/3/79 - 7/13/03

[4everjoeysmom]

I'm still here too. I had a bumpy day yesterday, but am feeling a little more positive energy today. There are some days when I would just prefer to stay in bed and be a vegetable consumed with mindless movies or whatever.

I know about the new board too. I thought it was tacky to come here and announce it on this active board. I realize we all just want to know more, be heard, share, etc, but there's a line of ethics that people cross even here. It just bugs me...

Mary, to honor our kids, a lot of us have created web site memorials for family and friends to visit and communicate. That's been a blessing for my family and Joey's friends. Joey's dad and Joey were building a horse barn together. It didn;t get finished before Joey departed, but has since been erected with the help of five of Joey's closest friends. A special plaque will hang in the barn as a dedication to Joey. He loved the horses he and his dad raised together. My husband gave me a puppy after Joey died, and I named him Jo-Jo, a variable of Joey's name. The college library at Joey's school dedicated a book in Joey's memory by adding a special book plate to the cover in honor of Joey's contribution to the campus life there in the agriculture department he studied under. And I share Joey's life and early passing as a testimony to the many people we minister to in our mission work in South America, as well as just about everywhere I go. It's a stark reminder that kids die too, and even young people should consider whether they are wasting their precious time in their young lives. I've shared some of Joey's clothing with the poor here. Some people here in BI have used clothing swatches to make memory quilts by adding them with screened on photos and such. There are many ways we honor our kids through memories and momentos. These are just a few. What a great thing to discuss in your group meeting. Hugs, Claudia

[donosmom]

I have also bought butterfly seeds and forget me not seeds to hand out at the meeting for those that would like to plant them in their gardens. I also made some "Random Acts of Kindness Cards" that can be left in memory of our children along with some ideas of Acts of kindness. I hope I am helping some of the newer families on this journey. Thank you for sharing with me what you have done Claudia.

Matthew's Mama Mary

11/3/79 - 7/13/2003

[mom2angels]

{{{Claudia}}} ~ I’m sorry to hear that you had a rough day yesterday, but glad to hear that you’re feeling stronger today. Hope that trend continues for you in the days ahead.

I just want to address your comment about the “other board.”

Louise, who is a member here at BI, posted an invitation to join another message board, which was created by her and another grieving parent. I am sure that Louise did not intend to lure away any members from here, but rather is offering another resource in addition to BI. There are many grief message boards on the internet, and lots of people belong to more than one board. I’m sure that Louise’s invitation was just letting us know that another option exists for us to talk about our grief (and other subjects), and she certainly didn’t mean to cross any “line of ethics” in extending that invitation.

Major differences exist between BI and the “other board,” including a manageable format with individual threads. BI is just one continuing conversation, with numerous topics on one page, and we all jump around from topic to topic. People are often overlooked when they post here, because their posts are swamped by posts about other topics.

I find the BI format very cumbersome and difficult to keep track of who is who and what is going on with whom. I also find it difficult to respond to everyone, and it takes me hours composing in Word and jumping back to BI to do so. I attempt to do that as often as I can, so that no one here will feel ignored. The 30-minute time-out feature for posting here is also annoying, and I’ve read many references to “lost” posts or incomplete posts, because the poster’s 30 minutes expired or were about to expire.

Last summer, I asked about updating the BI format and was told a new format would be rolled out in a couple of months. It’s now nearly March, and nothing has changed, and I haven’t received a response on the Opinions and Suggestions board which I posted Feb. 12, asking when we would see the updated format here.

There are so many features available now on internet message boards, which would facilitate our communication and attract additional members to BI. Those features are available on the “other board,” to which Louise invited us, but not here at BI.

Additionally, the “other board,” is PRIVATE. BI is very PUBLIC, in that anyone anywhere with a computer can read our messages. For that reason, I am cautious about what I post here. Some things are easier/more comfortable to discuss when we know that only other parents in our situation, who fully understand, are reading our messages. The “other board” offers that kind of refuge and safety.

I belonged to (and still do) another parent grief forum, before I joined BI, which is public and rather inactive. It has all of the modern forum features, but it is part of a giant community of boards for medical issues, so it didn’t get too much traffic. BI’s activity (at least our forum here for adult children) is fairly good, but certainly not as frequented as it could be, and I feel that some of that has to do with its format.

I have joined and am participating on the “other board,” but not to the exclusion of my participation here. My guess is that many of us will see each other in both places, and maybe even on other message boards, which I think is wonderful as it allows us to get to know each other better, and therefore support each other better. And, I believe that when/if BI introduces an updated forum format, people will post more often here. I’d really like to see that happen, as many of the members, who were active here when I joined, disappeared long before the "other board" was established. I wonder how they are doing, if they are okay, and what is going on in their lives.

I love everyone here and everyone there, and I think there is plenty of room for as many message boards as we need to help us cope with our devastating losses. We are all friends frantically rowing in the same boat, no matter where we post on the internet.

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[mom2angels]

{{{Kathy}}} ~ What an amazing experience to see that young man who looks like Nate! That certainly falls into the category of a sign from your dear son. You must have been amazed! Will you be going back there to shop? Hope that lifted your heart.

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[mom2angels]

{{{Rhonda}}} ~ I hope that Richard's Angel Date was gentle for you. I lit a candle in Richard's honor and prayed for strength for you.

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[mom2angels]

{{{Mary}}} ~ I will pray that all will go well with your daughter and her pregnancy, and that this child will be the turning point in her life toward stability and happiness.

We created a waterfall/pond memory garden in our yard for Michael, surrounded by plants and angel statues. Michael's room, which is in the center of our home, is now his sanctuary (some would call it a "shrine," which is fine with me as I don't know why shrines have a negative connotation). His room holds his urns, pictures, candles, angel figurines, and all of the gifts we have received in Michael's memory.

We also give to charities in his memory, including our hospital's annual holiday charity to raise funds to assist patients and families during end-of-life crises.

I am writing a book about Michael, his final illness, his passing and my grief journey.

When is your presentation so I can send you lots of positive energy that day? Please be sure to let us know how it goes too.

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[namarella]

Hi, Mary, Matthew's mom,

As we've passed several dates recently, this issue has certainly been with us, of doing something to honor our son, Eric (2-22-82 - 1/14/06). Some memories/mementoes have been more private, basically for my husband and myself, others more public. Because Eric loved art of all sorts, we had a "memorial chair" painted with scenes of herbs and lavendar, inscribed with some of Eric's words from an essay he'd written; he'd left some money in a savings account which we used to buy a copper dragon weathervane and mounted it on the roof of our barn. He loved plants and I've been planting trees on our property, gave away wildflower seeds on his angel date anniversary. We had a gathering of friends and family at our house and did a balloon release also on that day. Eric also loved animals and working with kids, so we set up memorial funds at the local Humane Society and an organization that works with homeless kids. Because Eric volunteered at an orphanage in another country, we're taking a look at donating to that orphanage on a regular basis, in his name. I think there are so many ways we can honor our children and continue his/her memory, and for us it's been a matter of honoring what our son loved in life.

Take care,

Colleen (Eric's mom)

[julsmom]

Mary, on the first year "anniversary" of Julie's death, we had a concert. Her boyfriend who plays the upright bass was the featured soloist but our church choir, a community chorus and some others also performed. The funds went to 2 church youth groups.

We started a memorial fund at Heifer International, you can see it at:

http://www.heiferfoundation.org/remembrance/searchBook.cfm?honoree_last=c

Her friends have donated funds in her memory to the college they all graduated from, other friends have donated children's books in her memory or to their favorite charities.

Her boyfriend and his family planted a memorial garden with benches on the campus of the seminary my husband attended, which was across the street from the high school she attended.

Peace, Lynda

[4everjoeysmom]

Hi Roslyn, Your comments about the other board are duly noted and respected. I guess I think of things from the other side a bit more than just for what it means to me personally. My husband and I co-founded and operate a non-profit ministry that rpovides services and outreach to many, many poor folks that otherwise have no help if it weren't for the donations and support that come our way. In looking from that perspective, the life of a non-profit, including BI, depends on supporters--most of whom we have no idea even exist, but they are gracious to continue prividing support primarily because it is helping someone. BI certainly has room to grow, as do we all. I suppose when I saw the advertisement to come and post elsewhere, I saw that as a offer made by a competing forum that will also rely on public support. Since it's private, does that mean the owner/operator is covering all expenses? That makes a little bit of a difference. But overall, there must be a better way to make an announcement like that other than to paste it on someone else's board that solely depends on public support. It still has an air of stealing to me... It would be like someone posting on our ministry web site that humanitarian services are better available through "such and such", so come visit soon. It's just kind of rude, in my humble opinion. I know it came with good intentions, and maybe I make too much of it... but this afterall is a place to express opinions, and coming from the other side of how it appeared, I was slightly offended. We non-profits really take a beating by the private sector.... Most people don't see that side.

[momgran]

Wow. When I opened my eyes this morning, the song that vividly reminds me of Kieran was playing in my head and when I got out of bed, the tsunami hit! I had been 'doing so well' for some time now and the pain today is so excruciating I had to take the day off work. After having long chats with two of my sisters, I decided I needed to come and visit my dear friends here at BI to read any words of hope and wisdom and share my grief. But alas, I'm met with, what appears to me, to be a Policical Forum! I'm sorry, Claudia, but my feelings are akin to Roslyn's in that I believe Louise was simply sharing with her fellow grievers, an opportunity to pop in and chat with another group of sad souls who have their individual stories and thoughts to share with us. When words like, 'funding' and 'expenses' are entered into this mix it somehow takes the focus away from 'feelings'. This site emphasises that there is 'no judgement' here so seeing judgements being made is sad to me. And here I am, falling into the Political trap and making my judgement...but I like to think I'm supporting the heartfelt reaching out of another person i.e. Louise, inviting us to share with others in the same boat. I know that since Oct 22, that fateful day I lost my darlings, that I've searched the internet, libraries, etc, reaching out in desperation for others who can understand my pain. I, too, am involved with other groups and I don't think, in our situation, you can have too much support. That's the one positive thing about the www. We have endless resources, but I do agree with you, Roslyn, that it would be a very good idea to make it a little more private. I was quite shocked a while ago when I googled Pippa and Kieran's names that my entries here came up! Like you, I believe at times, I need to censor what I say on here. The suggestions you've made to BI are excellent ones and I thank you for doing that on our behalf. You do inspire me so, Roslyn. I wonder how you can be so focused on each individual on here and take the time to address each of us individually. Your loss of Michael is devasting and having to live with Jon's illness must simply be a reminder of this all the time. But I know you treasure the time you have with Jon and are truly living in the moment with him. The way you dig deep within yourself to find strength and meaning is truly an inspiritation.

I find ever single person that posts on here is simply an extension of me and my heart and soul at the moment. The universality of our grief is amazing and I like to think that although I would NEVER have chosen this path, it is teaching me how we humans and all living things, are bound together in a precious unity. Our life here is a union that we should all appreciate and enjoy every day of our lives. If everyone understood this, there'd be no war and disharmony.

Thank you all again for being there. I will now go and dry my tears, have a shower and a nice cup of tea and work on my Angels' memorial website.

Love, Peace and Patience

Debbie

[4everjoeysmom]

This was not my intent. I suppose in sharing my being offended here, it was not ok , no matter how carefully I tried to explain why it was offensive to "me". I didn't expect a debate or anyone to agree or disagree. We're ALL in the same boat. Making waves is not why I am here...Lord knows I have enough waves of my own to ride without creating more or having more heaped upon me. Thanks for the kick in the gut... I get it now.

[4everjoeysmom]

To ALL, Please forgive me for making a personal statement about something so tender... We're all fragile, including me. Blessings, Claudia

[momgran]

Dear Claudia....how fragile we all are! Our hearts and souls have been crushed and our nerves are constantly on edge....our natural defence against more pain and hurt. Please forgive me, also, as my post was more in support of Louise than 'against' you. The way you've shared your thoughts and feelings during your difficult journey have been such a support to me! You are always there to share your ways of coping and learning to live again. I don't want you to misinterpret my previous post as being 'anti Claudia'! Never. You are well loved and appreciated. I would just like to see us all sharing our 'feelings' more so than our opinions of each other. I hope I'm phrasing this in such a way so as not to hurt you again. That is truly the last think I would want to do. My heart ached when I read your first response to my post. How can I hurt someone who's words have lifted me through many difficult moments on this sad journey. Friends please??

Love

Debbie

[4everjoeysmom]

Hi Debbie, Thanks for your uplifting words and apology. My feelings were hurt mainly because I felt like I ruined your day. I honestly didn't mean any offense to anyone--not even Louise. Actually, the day she blasted her message on just about every thread here, she then sent me a personal e-mail announcing the site as well. I know it may not have been meant as such, but to me it felt like a spam tactic. I e-mailed her back that day and personally expressed my feelings about being a target to that kind of thing, no matter what the intent was for. I just felt it was in poor taste----mostly toward Beyond Indigo. I know there are lots of things here that could be better. But the fact is we all keep coming here for each other, not for the board itself and its shortcomings or what have you. (Personally I like the simple tones here, and it's been easy for my mom to use too.) Sometimes I have to catch myself though, because I notice in so many places, including in my own life, that Grief becomes an excuse to do things out of character and rationale--to center everything around my emotions and not be so concerned with how my actions affect other people or structures, including BI. Because this board has been a saving grace for me so often--especially in my very early grief when I wasn't sure I could take my next breath, I wouldn't want to do anything to detract from the board, draw people away or run them off, or hurt the operational objectivity of BI, etc. Probably more than anything I ran to the aid of BI--a place I love to come, because I didn't see how that announcement contributed in a healthy way to "this" board. I know it touched so many people to hear of a new place, and that's a wonderful thing--truly. I just questioned how it was done and that maybe there was a better way than the way it was done--for the sake of future like-situations I hope that announcements like that can refrain from being plastered on every thread when sending e-mails (as was done) would suffice. I e-mailed directly to the source, so nothing I said here was different and in need of a defense for either side really. I saw 2 days of silence here, and a mention of a new board and how this is still home for some of us...and that's where I stuck my 2 cents in. But it was only 2 cents. I'm sure it would have been better left unsaid at this point. I felt like I needed to try and explain myself after Roslyn's defense, which by the way I respected deeply and said so. And in doing so I did not mean to be all politcal sounding. My husband and I are very careful in our own n-p work not to step on toes, so it was a blaring horn to me. It's part of my life, and I do realize that most people here aren't familiar with that. But it means something dearly to me. I respect everyone here enough not to say hurtful things to attack someone personally. I wasn't attacking Louise--just questioning the tactics. I tend to look at a broad scope when evaluating something, and generally am learning to set my emotions aside so that I can make a fair assessment, because when my emotions rule it's the most unfair thing ever! But if we can come on here and advertise a new board, or new trinkets for sale, and what have you, where is the line drawn? I just don't want to be subject to all of that either. It's a drag. I too prefer to stick to sharing feelings, but sometimes of those feelings stems an opinion that is also worthy of noting. Just apparently not the one I noted--primarily because the source was a bereaved mother and we ALL want to run to the aid of a bereaved parent. But then that twists my brain too, because where do we draw the line in our own behaviors? Just how far do we go to defend...? It's a general observation having to do with grief behavior, so please don't misunderstand. It's all a component of healing--learning to appropriate our bahaviors following something so devastating as losing a precious child. Some days I feel so together, and other days I feel like I am so lost. Actually right now I just took a shower, and I am heading to bed with another mindless movie, because I am emotionally overwhelmed this afternoon. This all has just rattled my brain and twisted me into a ball of nothingness. And for that I truly wish I would have just stayed silent for another 2 days...

On the brighter side, I love and respect that we can DEEPLY share our hearts here. That is what I have been doing and want to continue doing. Sometimes a wrench gets thrown in, and without realizing it, I guess I threw one today and forgot to yell, "duck!" I truly meant no foul. Love & Hugs, Claudia

[momgran]

Thank you Claudia. I think I now have a better understanding of your feelings on this subject. This has been your precious sanctuary since losing your darling Joey and Louise's messages came across as 'commercial' in some way. I'm not a practicing Christian (though I was raised in a Christian family) but I suppose it could be likened to Jesus admonishing the Merchants in the Temple. This place is sacred to you and the manner in which she presented the new 'gathering place' was somewhat agressive and intrusive? You are very protective of your BI and you were simply being the loving lioness.

I know what you mean about our allowing ourselves, perhaps more often than we should, certain liberties as bereaved mothers. I know we do need and deserve a lot of understanding, from ourselves and others, at times, simply to get through the day! But at times I know I can overstep the mark and perhaps expect a little more from others than I really should. I'm learning that an important part of healing is reaching out to help others and I do try my best when an opportunity arises. We were preparing to celebrate my daughter-in-law's birthday this past weekend when on Thursday, her father fell and broke his shoulder, some ribs and knee. He already had trouble walking due to a previous mishap with his leg so this has set him back horribly. Then on Sunday, before my son, daughter-in-law and her mother were due to come to my place for a birthday dinner, my daughter-in-law's brother and three children were involved in a car accident on the way to the hospital to visit their father/grandfather! Thank God noone was injured but the car was written off and their mother came to take them to the hospital for their visit. My visitors eventually arrived and we all had quite a lovely day together. It's amazing how these things can seem to snowball...but it did force me to take my mind off my own pain and loss for a while. This precious family of ours needs a lot of bandaids at the moment!

I hope you were able to relax, Claudia, and shed some of the stress. It's been quite a day for me, too! I look at the clock and say....where did the time go!? Despite our differences today, I am so glad we shared and I pray for better days for us all!

Love, Peace and Patience

Debbie

[mom2angels]

{{{Claudia}}} ~ It was certainly never my intention to upset you, as I know you are fragile too.

I think we have a misunderstanding about the difference between public and private forums, so please let me clarify the difference. The terms “private” and “public” forum have nothing to do with funding, but everything to do with accessibility.

A PUBLIC forum is open for viewing (reading) by anyone who has a computer. Most public forums require registration to post a message, but not to read messages.

A PRIVATE forum is “locked” or “closed” to public viewing. To post and to read messages on a private forum requires registration, approval by the site administrator granting membership, and log in to read messages. That’s why private forums are more safe and secure, because you know that only other members are reading your messages, not anybody and everybody in the world who stopped by for whatever reason.

I was not thinking about funding when I posted to you about Louise’s board. But since you mentioned it, I decided to investigate.

After searching on both forums today, I learned that Beyond Indigo is a “privately held company” called Kelasan, Inc. and was established in 1997. (The link is on BI’s home page, left side column under “About Us”). There is no mention of its profit/non profit status.

The Other Board is owned by the administrators of the board, and they are seeking a non profit status.

In the time that I've been at BI, we've had a couple of "spammers," whose posts have been removed quickly. You won't see any trinket selling on here, which is a very good thing. Also, I wanted to note that we do not have a Private Message feature here (which both private and public boards with updated formats do offer), and not every one here allows their e-mail address to be visible, so privately contacting many BI members can be a daunting and difficult task.

Please understand that I appreciate the existence of BI and am grateful for the support I receive here. But the format is really antiquated (and other parents here have agreed with me in the past about this), and I feel that BI and its members would be served better with an updated format. My main concern is that too often people post here, and their messages get lost among all of the other messages, or rapidly moved to Page 2, where fewer people visit. Just look at how much space we have consumed discussing this situation.

I hope this clears things up and that you are enjoying some peaceful rest now.

Oh yes...I've been meaning to ask you how Wilson is doing?

Love & Light,

Roslyn

[julsmom]

I didn't take the posting of another website as stealing. For the first few months after Julie's death, I posted on at least 3 different websites and entered chat rooms on two of them. I think each person has to find the outlet/forum which will serve his or her needs. I still read 2 of them and occasionally will post. Very seldom do I go into chat rooms at this stage. But again that is what I have found helpful. Each website served a different need for me. May we all find peace & comfort. Lynda

[4everjoeysmom]

Thank you again for pointing out particulars. I'm ready to drop it now... It really wasn't worth all this... This is depressing me even more. Sorry all.

[4everjoeysmom]

I woke up this morning and it hit me like a ton of bricks. Yesterday was so down for me, and I felt like I was in a southward spiraling funnel. Momgran/Debbie, I just want to say thank you, because YOU took careful consideration of the emotional side of how I was feeling and YOU hit the nail on the head. So THANK YOU for being so compassionate and working hard to understand me emotionally despite your own tough emotional moments of the day.

Sixteen months ago my husband and I made an enormous life decision to become full time missionaries. It's something he dreamed of for many years, and it just seemed like perfect timing since a very clear God-led opportunity arose during his 10 day trip to Ecuador in Oct 05. Since then I have given up my 60K+ upper management career, as did he, sold and gave away almost everything I owned, sold our home, our three cars, moved to work in Ecuador in May, almost immediately came down with a horrible indigenous flu that wiped me off my feet for a week--along with very severe bouts of homesickness and depression, I had to adjust to my husband and I living on $450 per month solely on donations for our living support (if you can imagine that), had to surrender lots and lots of personal freedoms--like driving a car, going anywhere alone when I need to have time to myself, and doing laundry by machine. I habnd washed everything for a while and hung it to dry in a moist climate where 4 days was the norm. (Thank God I have since been gifted a washer and dryer!) So, for the first months after making the decision there was lots of organization, reorganization and preparations. I was SO busy. Then after I got here (to Ecuador) I battled my first couple of months through serious culture shock. AND as if that wasn't enough to juggle and get through, 12 weeks after I got here my son died and it nearly destroyed me... I am still trying to catch my breat from that blow.

In a nutshell I have gone through more "change" in one year than most people go through in a lifetime. On top of that was losing my child. The guilt that plagued me for being so far away, even though only a few months at the time, I just can't even describe how awful this has all been. Through it all God has been a source of strength and hope for me, and I am grateful for that. BUT coming here has been a lifesaver.

Momgran Debbie, I wanted to share this with you. Yesterday I felt this terrible anxiety; this insecure and threatening feeling that I just couldn't shake or explain. I wish I could have just come out with it, but I didn't exactly recognize it until my head began to put the puzzle tgether this morning. I was SO depressed yesterday. I'm still trying to dig out of that hole... I felt like a kid on a front porch surrounded by all my friends. And all of a sudden a kid comes running to the porch and says, "hey, I just built a new clubhouse out back. Come and see!" And everyone runs to see it except me, because frankly I'm sick of change and want to stay on the front porch for a while. And I felt so afraid that my friends wouldn't come back. (A couple of days of silence here helped that horrible vision along..ugh) So, emotionally, that's what I went through yesterday---a flood of a yearful of difficult hurdles and irrational anxiety, etc. So, again, thanks for seeing through all of the "political crap" enough to reach out and truly understand me. Even though I am a full time servant of God here, it doesn't protect me from the struggle and feeling the horrible effects of grief and pain. (It hasn't helped this week that my husband has been away all week and I've been very isolated and depressed.) I try hard to always be giving, but yesterday I needed to receive and you comforted me. Thank you. Love & Hugs, Claudia

I hope we can go back now to sharing what honors our kids...

[4everjoeysmom]

P.s. Debbie, I was so sorry to hear that your husband was hurt and that your precuious loved ones were in a car accident--but am so thankful that no one was seriously hurt. I hope your husband finds speedy healing and recovery and that the wave of trials comes to a lull. You're right! Sometimes the snowball effects just catch us so off guard and knock us off our feet. I'm praying for brighter days ahead for you, for me, and for all of us. Love, Claudia

[momgran]

I'm so pleased, Claudia, that you've awoken to a new day with some resolutions and a better understanding of your emotions of yesterday. I think that is the real 'work' of grief, isn't it. As you know, I too had a day, out of the blue, where I was spiralling down into this bottomless well of grief and having the opportunity of focusing on someone else's struggle and sharing mine has really helped me, too! Today, I will be able to go to work. A bit battered and war torn but not emotionally out of control. I've read that the anger we feel is often a disguise for 'fear' and I can really see that now. I know there have been times when I've needed to express my anger and when I come back down to earth I realise the real emotion I'm feeling is fear. Fear of having to live my life without my babies, of anything happening to my surviving son and other family members, losing my own health and sanity, not being able to work and earn a living. The loss of our children shakes our security and anything that threatens our lifelines can be quite terrifying at times.

Thank you so much for sharing your journey of the past 16 months. I really admire you and your husband for the sacrifices you've made to offer yourselves in service to people in need. And the old cliche, 'why do bad things happen to good people' comes to mind. Which brings me back to the golden rule 'there is no 'why'. It just happened and we have to come to terms with it. A bereaved mom I communicate with directly in a local group once said to me "It really annoys me when people say 'this will make you a better person', because before this happened I was a pretty good person!" I understand her sentiment. We have to walk around with these gaping wounds, struggling to come to terms with our loss and learning to live with the 'new' Debbie, the 'new' Claudia and we don't feel nearly as 'good' as we were before our tragedies! At some point we do have to go back to our basic values and principles for living and know that through the healing process we will strengthen a lot of the 'goodness' we have inside and discover new strengths and values as we always have on our journey through life. We're just more challenged than the average person who has to deal with less traumatic changes and losses in their lives. So hopefully, we will become stronger. Don't you sometimes want to go back to that carefree childhood, running through the grass, splashing around in the water, unaware of mortality with no fears and living every moment to the fullest. I do want to try my best to get some of that back. We do deserve it. This life is so precisious. Rose Kennedy once said:

"I have always believed that God never gives a cross to bear larger than we

can carry. No matter what, he wants us to be happy, not sad. Birds sing

after a storm. Why shouldn't we?"

How true those words are. When I'm really suffering I try to tell my daughter that I will get better and be happy again. I don't want her to see me in such pain. She was such a caring daughter and whenever I struggled she comforted me and gave me beautiful reading material to help me through, which I go back to now that she's gone because I need those words now. I want to live for her and Kieran. She really, really would want me to be happy.

Your story reminds me a little of when I lost my second son, Andrew to SIDS at 7 weeks in 1975. We were living in England at the time, with my then 2 year old son, and less than a year later I discovered I was pregnant with Pippa and my husband announced he'd accepted a job in South Africa and we were moving there in Feb/77. Pippa was born in June 77 in Johannesburg. At that time I didn't want to move past my own doorstep! I was horrified at the prospect of leaving all that security but in retrospect I know that that dramatic change and the life we eventually lived in South Africa was a blessing. The 14 years I spent there were truly the best of my life. My marriage ended in 1986 and I returned to Canada in 1992 to help my mother through her last 6 months of life and both my children followed me here. It had been 2 1/2 years since Pippa and Kieran moved back to South Africa when they died and I think that I had already done a lot of grieving for them physically. We were due to reunite for Christmas 6 weeks after they died so I never got to hold them again. But this type of grief is devastating. Knowing I never will, in this lifetime, hold them again.

I've been rambling on folks. Sorry. But I think Claudia and I needed this and have found it cathartic. I hope some of our words have helped others on here in some way.

Love, Peace and Patience

Debbie

[momgran]

Claudia, the person who was injured in the fall was my daughter-in-law's father. It was my daughter-in-law's brother and his children who were in the car accident. I know, it's very confusing! All these different family relationships. My ex-husband and his wife still live in South Africa. We've always had a close family relationship with them and my ex and his wife were living close to Pippa and Kieran when they died so they have a terrible burden to deal with now as well. Poor souls. Thanks for your sentiments. Much appreciated.

[4everjoeysmom]

Debbie, Yes. Sorry for the confusion. I do hope and pray everyone is getting on better.

My husband posted this morning for the very first time on Joey's memorial page.. I have been in tears ever since reading it. Somehow he must have known and it was just amazing timing...and amazing what he said. I just MISS MY SON...

[momgran]

Claudia, where can I find Joey's memorial Page. I'm thrilled that Joey connected you with your husband today in your desperate time of need.

Until I get their website finished I have a simple page here for Pippa and Kieran

http://www.bfotoronto.ca/memorials/indexx.asp?cat=PKB

and Andrew here:

http://www.bfotoronto.ca/memorials/indexx.asp?cat=AwB

Love Debbie