Depression

[Mdanielson4]

Depression seems to be controlling my life lately. I have never before had to deal with such emotional outbreaks. I never remember crying before. I don’t know what to do to make things better. Just when I feel I have mastered the emotional problems it happens again. It might be a song or going on to Mary’s computer and finding a letter or post. Going to her side of the bed and looking in her night stand finding a card or something she wrote down. I don’t know what will trigger it next. I thought time was going to make things better. I must be an exception to the rule because it seems to be getting worse every day for me. With the Holidays creeping up I don’t know if I can make it through them. I know what the Holidays meant to Mary, it was a very big deal. Life as I knew it is gone. There is nothing recognizable anymore.

Mike

[kendi]

Dear Mike,

My prayers and thoughts are with you!!! I do know how you are feeling, it does seem like it gets worse. I thought I was doing good, handling things one day at a time. Now it feels like I have to take it minute by minute. I do my best to celebrate Kenny's life because he gave me so much joy!! I had someone the other day wanting to come and take the scrap iron off that Kenny had laying in the yard. I told him no because if he did I would not be able to see Kenny, He loved his junk. I can't seem to look anywhere in the house he didn't have a part of. I now tear up going down the road when I didn't before. I just got through listening to some Micheal Bolton he didn't like him but I would sing along and hold him as I did. I do Thank God he brought Kenny into my life, to know a love like we had has made my life more in the 12 years we had together than most have in a lifetime. I know in time we will be okay and our memories will bring us a smile and not tears. I also know it is okay for us to cry and morn as long as we need to because, we are missing our hearts, our loves our soul mates.Just remember they have left our sides to be in our hearts. Kenny had a facebook page and I write on his wall as I guess sort of therapy for me even tho he can not read it he still can feel it and this is a poem I wrote.

Since you left my side and

Went into my heart

Not a moment goes by

You not in my thoughts

Our love is true

Our souls are joined

My eyes may weep

But my heart is full

Your memories are my guide

To know we are never apart

You are my heart, my soul

And my love

I am forever grateful

You are part of my life

I love you Kenny Ashby

And proud to be your wife

[val]

I too find it difficult to know where the line is between what is depression and what is normal,(if anything is normal about this), grief. Situational depression is what it might be called. But it feels endless. I too feel like life as I knew it is over. There is no bringing Jerry back, somehow, someway , i must, day by day, continue on alone in my life. I fear never being loved again, no one could love me like he did. It is so hard. But my hope for you is that your depression is not endless like mine seems to be, that you too will find the strength and courage to pick up the pieces that are 'our' new lives. You are in my thoughts and prayers. God Bless You Mike. ((hugs)) val

[widower2]

I too find it difficult to know where the line is between what is depression and what is normal,(if anything is normal about this), grief.

Nothing. Or perhaps better to say: everything. Point being it's unique to you and there is no "normal" or what you're "supposed" to feel, or how, or when.

I too find it difficult to know where the line is between what is depression and what is normal,(if anything is normal about this), grief.

Nothing. Or perhaps better to say: everything. Point being it's unique to you and there is no "normal" or what you're "supposed" to feel, or how, or when.

And remember that this takes time. A LOT of time. Allow yourself that. Sorry for each of your struggles, comes w/the territory unfortunately, but you can weather it. Best to you......

[Shirley e]

I have been dealing with mine for just a month with rob killing himself in front of me. Sometimes I see no hope and I cry a lot. I think I will never have anyone to love or hold me in there arms again and that scars me. Here is what I have been doing staying busy I got a job working at amazon. I haven't worked in 29 years. I don't want to but I talk to people about it and spend time with my family. The small ones are great you get lots of hugs and kisses. Don't close your family out for the holidays they are hurting to and you can draw strength from each other. Depression isn't easy pills will help some. Everything reminds me of Rob. Nothing but time and God can fix our broken hearts. My thoughts and prayers go out to you. Always remember the Foot prints in the sand. God is carrying us all right now. May God Bless You Mike

[jpow16]

I am also dealing with deep depression, more than 13 months after the loss of my wife. Thought I was dealing with it pretty well, then fell into this black hole. Difficulty sleeping, no appetite, everything seems like a big burden. Just want to stay under the covers and hold my cats. I am just realizing that Kathleen was the only person in the world who truly knew and accepted me, and feels like I'm wandering through this life as a stranger. Thought we would grow old together, now I'll just grow old. This really scares me.

[lost and numb]

I understand exactly Mike. I am so depressed. It has been 31 days since I lost David, and I have no direction to my life. I cry all the time. I cannot picture myself living without his love.

The days are endless and the night brings no relief. I don't sleep and I don't want to eat. I seem to just go through the motions of daiy chores and wander around trying not to think.

Holidays were special for us too. It is going to be very hard to face them alone this year. My kids and friends are going to make sure we have our dinners together and try to make things seem somewhat normal. I know it won't be... I am not looking forward to any of it. But I know they are trying to be there for me.

No one really understands how I feel inside. They mean well, but it's too soon.

I just want him home, and to be in his arms again.

You are not alone in this struggle even though it may seem so. Your friends here will be thinking of you.

Ann

[stargazer5510]

Me too. This will be my third holiday season and I'm less prepared this year than the last two. I haven't wanted to call it depression, but if I'm honest, that's what it is. Just an untouchable sadness under everything. I had some real reason for pure joy and happiness last week and I did experience some uplift, but it faded so quickly back to the sadness.

Growing old together was going to be an adventure. Growing old alone just sucks.

Thanks for starting this discussion, Mike. We'll get through it.

[Mdanielson4]

Thank you all for the very supportive and caring words. You are all so needed in my life right now. There are two people here that have went way up and beyond for me. They recognized I needed a bit more than just the forums here and took me under their wings. I truly believe they have been a blessing to me and both of them have saved my life just by being there. They talk all hours of the night to help me through the rough spots, they call me when I can help them, I find this gives my life purpose and helps me feel better too. I went to church this morning and felt so alone. It seems like everything brings me sorrow because I’m alone. I love you all and it brings me great comfort when you listen and respond. Thank you so much. I truly want to help each of you in anyway I can. God bless all of you.

Mike

[lost and numb]

Good Morning Mike. How are you feeling today? Stronger I hope.

It is pouring here. But we really needed the rain so it is a blessing.

I wanted to do some yard work this weekend, but had family here and it didn't get done. It will be there for me to do later. One more cut of the yard to take care of the leaves and I am done for the season. I don't think I'll ever get use to doing the chores alone. But they have to be done.

I just wanted you to know I am thiking of you. I hope you have a good day .

Take care

Ann

[Mdanielson4]

Ann, my days seem to be getting more challenging. I have had to change my thought pattern to getting through each hour. I continue to go to deliver to the Cancer Center and seeing all of the Nurses and Dr's that took care of Mary is killing me. One of them stopped me today and asked how I was doing? I told her the best I can. I certainly Miss Mary! The things I miss most, the hugs, kisses, teasing. The little sayings only her and I knew. I think that tops the charts, when she would look at me and tell me in her cute voice “Shut-Up!!!” We always knew that meant “I love you!!!” People would look at us funny and we didn’t care. We would laugh because we knew we had a secret. That is the type of things that really sets me off crying. It’s the funny things I miss the most. Its her!!!

Mike

[paulaj]

Depression/Bereavement

I find this discussion interesting for a number of reasons. Our culture has pathologized bereavement The DSM IV (diagnostic and statistical manual of the American Psychiatric Association) has bereavement classified under the category of what they call *V* codes. Insurance companies will not pay for a V code diagnoses. So some clinicians have to tag another disorder along with it e.g. depression, adjustment disorder, and others, to get paid. The definition of Bereavement leaves much to be desired.

Bereavement V62.82

"This category can be used when the focus of clinical attention is a reaction to the death of a loved one. As part of their reaction to the loss, some grieving individuals present with symptoms characteristic of a Major Depressive Episode (e.g., feelings of sadness and associated symptoms characteristic of a Major Depressive Episode (e.g. feelings of sadness and associated symptoms such as insomnia, poor appetite, and weight loss). The bereaved individual typically regards the depressed mood as "normal," although the person may seek professional help for relief of associated symptoms such as insomnia or anorexia. The duration and expression of "normal" bereavement vary considerably among different cultural groups. The diagnoses of Major Depressive Disorder is generally not given unless the symptoms are still present 2 months after the loss. However, the presence of certain symptoms that are not characteristic of a "normal" grief reaction may be helpful in differentiating bereavement from a Major Depressive Episode. These include 1) guilt about things other than actions taken or not taken by the survivor at the time of the death; 2) thoughts of death other than the survivor feeling that he or she would be better off dead of should have died with the deceased person; 3) morbid preoccupation with worthlessness; 4) marked psychomotor retardation; 5) prolonged and marked functional impairment; and 6) hallucinatory experiences other than thinking that he or she hears the voice of, or transiently sees the image of, the deceased person."

Now, what's wrong with this picture? Depression does not have to be major. It ranges from mild to severe. And many of us on this list have experience *symptoms* well beyond two months . I think it's *normal* to have bereavement and depression running side by side. I'm not talking about suicidal depression with a plan e.g. "I wish I was dead and I have a gun at home I'm going to use." There can be no timeline. Their are so many variables involved with the reaction to a death, this definition falls short of the mark. The DSM IV is political document which adds change as the research grows. However, there are only so many issues the psychiatrist's on the committee can tackle at one time. And that is not to say that many clinicians will be satisfied with the outcome.

In this information age, we can create change. Why does this list exist? Obviously, there was a need that wasn't being filled. I really don't think we're all crazy! Bereavement is a process, not an event we "get over." I wish I would have found this list sooner - it has helped me so much. I was becoming a professional recluse after 5 years, now I'm going out again. I've actually experienced joy and am making meaning out of my life. All this takes time, and I hope your journey isn't as long as mine.

With Love,

Mandala

[Mdanielson4]

Mandala,

Although I appreciate your knowledge in this field, you lost me with the technical and clinical side, I really am not concerned with the payer sources at this time. All I know is the feelings I have hurt and I as many others really would like relief. Don’t get me wrong I know the importance of what you are telling us; it is just that I cannot focus on that nor can I pretend to understand. I know when reality hits and I need help with it I will be coming to you. You certainly have done your homework on this.

With Respect,

Mike

[paulaj]

To cut to the chase - our culture does not support grieving and has turned it into a *condition.* In the past, grieving was part of the culture. Since the topic of depression came up and people wondered what *normal* is, I'm trying to address it. The definition of bereavement needs to be expanded to say the least, in order to normalize what people are feeling. The reason I mentioned payer sources is bereavement has to be pathologized in order to be acknowledged. All of this permeates our culture.

My journey has been a long one. Over time, I started to experience a break from the anguish now and again. Some days the pain is intolerable others not. You are welcome to write to me whenever you need support. Sorry about the jargon, there was no way around it.

Sincerely,

Mandala

[widower2]

The definition of bereavement needs to be expanded to say the least, in order to normalize what people are feeling.

No offense, but I disagree. Merriam-Webster defines it as "the state of suffering the death of a loved one." Which I think we all pretty much knew already. It's that simple; no point over-complicating it IMO.

And no definition(s) will "normalize" what people are feeling anyway; further, the very idea of wanting to normalize people's feelings about such a loss makes no sense to me. Whatever one feels about such a loss is unique; there IS no "normal." People should not run away from this, but embrace it. The idea of comparing to others and trying to "do it right" or follow the herd is part of human nature and so understandable, but also pointless and more importantly, unfair to one's self (and really, don't we have enough of that "sheeple" mentality already in our world?).

The reason I mentioned payer sources is bereavement has to be pathologized

? Pathology is basically the study of diseases. Bereavement is not a disease; afraid you lost me there.

My journey has been a long one. Over time, I started to experience a break from the anguish now and again. Some days the pain is intolerable others not.

I'm sorry mandala; I don't doubt many of us can relate to that, generally speaking. Here's to many more "tolerable" and in fact GOOD days.

[paulaj]

I am talking about our mental health establishment. When I say *normalize* and expanding the definition I am trying to point out that depression is part of the process of berevement, which I believe started this discussion. How the dictionary defines a word and how the DSM defines it are two different things. I cited my source. I'd be the last person on earth to say there is a right way to do things - we are all unique. As a therapist, I respect difference and diversity. I agree, living through it and embracing it is the only way to get through it. There is no magic pill and it is impossible to follow any metaphorical herd.

Please remember, I have been going through this for five years. I'm still going through the process. To see a ray of hope, is something I never thought I would see. I thought it may be comforting to someone.

Pathology is indeed the study of diseases. What do you think depression and other mental illnesses are? What I am saying is that our culture through the psychiatric establishment has pathologized bereavement too. I am coming from a mental health perspective and the disservice it has done to people. I think we are speaking two different languages. Forgive my professional opinion.

Sincerely,

Mandala

[widower2]

Please remember, I have been going through this for five years. I'm still going through the process. To see a ray of hope, is something I never thought I would see. I thought it may be comforting to someone.

? It no doubt is. I'm not questioning that and in fact glad for it, ie that some good can come of your experiences somehow; I think we would all like to experience similar. You are in a unique position as a therapist who has been there/done that and so have a unique perspective and understanding that most therapists do not. My grief counselor was similar and it helped a great deal; many things I didn't have to explain, really; she knew what I meant.

Pathology is indeed the study of diseases. What do you think depression and other mental illnesses are?

First off, you imply depression is by definition a "mental illness." It is not. In fact, far more often than not, it is a normal and healthy part of our emotional make-up. Second, you imply depression is by definition a "disease." It is not.

I think that's a big problem with our society and many alleged experts nowdays, ie wanting to label every problematic behavior as a "disease" or "disorder" (etc etc). It MAY be so, but to say it is always so is absurd. In the case of bereavement, depression is (generally speaking) a normal, healthy reaction to a terrible loss; not a "disease" or "mental illness."

What I am saying is that our culture through the psychiatric establishment has pathologized bereavement too.

Sorry, still not sure I'm getting what you mean by "pathologized"-?

Forgive my professional opinion.

Nothing to forgive. You're certainly entitled to your professional, and personal, opinion, as we all are. Again sorry for any offense; I just agree to disagree on some aspects of this, I guess.

[kendi]

I was just sitting here reading the forums, it makes me feel better sometimes. I understand how you all feel. Depression comes and goes for me, I also have a little anger, stress, anxiety, you name it I probably felt it. they say all them are signs of depression, I say normal emotions for what we all are going through. I hear some people say it gets easier some say it is always as hard as it was the day it happened, that you just learned to deal with it. Well I don't know, I do know it is different for each and everyone and that it is handled differently by each and everyone. I wished it was just as easy as closing my eyes and wishing the pain goes away and Kenny was back. Well that will not happen, will it, I do thank God he gave me Kenny and showed me that love and happiness does happen, just was not long enough and guess I would give it all up just to have him back. I have emotions going through my head, some I can deal with some I have to push to the side some I deal with alone and some I just deal with. But it has not gotten any easier, Kenny has been gone a little over 3 months now and seems like a lifetime.As I was writing this I flipped to another tab for my facebook, I seen a pic that just seemed fitting and thought I would share.

[paulaj]

Indeed W2 there are many different kinds of depression. Major depression or a chemical event like Bi-polar disorder among many are indeed mental illnesses. My point was that mild depression goes hand-in hand with grief and does not have to be a separate event. It is a normal reaction to loss. I guess you misunderstood my statement. Instead of having grief and all that goes with it viewed as normal, it has been turned into a disorder. You're agreeing with what I said.

I will never get over John's loss. But the pain is not as acute as it was for years. And that is like a miracle.

Sincerely,

Mandala