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What Is Life?


Kelly

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Beyond Indigo Is Looking for Message Board Monitors

Interested in volunteering a few hours each week to monitor a message board and interact daily with the Beyond Indigo community? We're looking for monitors to share their experience, strength and hope. If you are interested, contact Julie at julie@beyondindigo.com for more information.

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Hi all –

I’m sure you’ve noticed that the message boards seem a little different. We’ve streamlined the message boards. We’ve unified the forum and thread names and tried to make things less confusing. I hope that it has made things easier for you.

We are considering adding new threads to the topics and would love to hear what you would like to be added. You can write me at julie@beyondindigo.com to share your thoughts and suggestions. I would love to hear from you.

I am also still looking for message board monitors. If you are interested, please let me know!

Take care,

Julie

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To All:

I am deeply disturbed by all the events surrounding the Terri Schiavo case and I'm really saddened to see something that should have been such a private family matter turned into a total media circus. It just leaves me with so many unanswered questions. I'm hoping to get some feedback from all of you on this topic.

What is life? Do a beating heart and breathing lungs constitute or is life something more than that? In using artificial means to keep a body alive are we "protecting the sanctity" of life or are we imprisoning a spirit to a body and mind that no longer function?

There are definitely many sides to this story, and its a very emotionally charged issue.I'm hoping we can get a thoughtful, nonconfrontational discussion on this topic to answer some of these questions. Let me know your thoughts and feelings. Joy

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Joy - I am responding to your post - but I am not sure whether or not I have an opinion of any value....but here goes.

First of all, like you - I am deeply disturbed that this turned into a media circus - HOWEVER: I have to say that were I as passionate about my daughter as Terri's Mum has been - then I too would have shouted from the tallest building to get the attention of anyone - if I thought it would help....so in a way, the media circus that we see - is probably exactly what Terri's Mum hoped would assist her in her quest. So that's my point number one.

Number two goes like this. I dont know the facts. Depending upon who I listen to, there appears to be two diametrically opposing stories as to Terri's condition.

Now my point number three is this. Even though Terri did not have a formal 'living will', from memory, a living will has language to the effect of ".......if I become a burden........", and my question is who's to say what constitutes a burden. Clearly Terri's Mum did not see Terri as a burden - therefore, what harm would it have done to let her care for her daughter.

In tandem with point number three above, there is also Terri's Husband's opinion which apparently takes precedence over all else (!). Clearly he has moved on with his life. He has a significant other and a couple of children I believe - therefore, his first priority lies with his new family I suspect and my question here is, how can he be considered 'the husband of Terri' when he has of his own admittance become someone else's 'common law husband'.

So all in all, I think to sum up my position is this: If we are as a constitution going to give recognition to a 'common law' arrangement, whether or not it was the right or the wrong thing to remove Terri's life support is not the question here........! I believe the real question here is, does Terri's 'Husband' really still have the right to make the choice for her given his new living arrangements. To me, of his own choosing, he should have no more right than an ex-busband, because in essence that is what he is.

Considering all of the above, it is my opinion (only an opinion) that Terri's parents should have been given the right to make the choice for Terri.

Then, and only then should we start thinking about what should happen to Terri because then and only then can the parents identify what the word 'burden' means to them and to Terri.

This is a very sensitive issue, and sadly, I have just heard that Terri has passed away this morning. I can only imagine what her parents and family are going through at this time - I only hope that they receive comfort and support, of the magnitude that I have received on this site. My prayers and thoughts are with them today.

Angela

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slowlyhealing

It is sad that Terri had to die in such a harsh way. I understand though that she is not in anymore pain, or trapped in the cruel body that has already been through so much.

My mom has a feeding tube, and that is how she eats now. My mother suffers from ALS, and though she has had the chance to write down what she wants her "living will". I know it will be hard for me to accomplish her wishes. I know that she does not want to be brought back after her heart stops, and I know that she doesn't want to be put on life support. I know this disease is going to take my mom away from me. I thought she would be there forever, at least until I got married, at least until I have my babies... but she won't. I don't even know if she'll be with me for my twenty-first birthday. I worry sometimes. What will life be like after my mom is gone. She'll be in a place of peace and happiness while the others on earth have to move on. Who will take care of my younger brothers? I know that I will step up to the plate if I need too, but... why does life have to hurt so much? Why must the world bring so much pain and hurt?

I don't know if the decision Terri's husband made is the right decision. I have always been taught that all human life is important, and is a blessing that should not be taken away. I know if it was me, and I was placed in a situation that I am trapped in my own body, I wouldn't want to live, if I didn't truly comprehend things around me... What is the purpose? I can't help people, I wouldn't even be able to help myself. I don't think that it was right the way Terri had to die. Starvation is never right, people around the world go through it every day, but when the media brings more light to the situation... It hurts.

All I can do is hope and pray for Terri's parents and family. I pray that God will give them the strength to do his will, and the strength to move on.

God bless you all, I pray you all find comfort too in the midst of this trial.

Nicole

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Angela and Nicole;

Thanks so much for your input. Angela, of course your opinion is of value! Thats what this website is all about. At this point in my life, Ive decided that no matter what opinions I may hold on any subject (and some may be quite strong!) I will listen to and consider the thoughts of others. To do otherwise and close your mind would mean to stop learning. And that is never a good thing!

I guess its obvious that no one "blanket" rule can apply to all people in all situations. These cases need to be decided on an individual basis. A feeding tube is not always considered an "extaordinary" measure to support life. Just as in Nicole's mom's case, it gives her valuable extra time to spend with her family. Having said that, it can also just prolong the inevitable in other cases.

Nicole, your mom did a very thoughtful and loving thing for her family in writing down her wishes.The thing that made

terri's case so bitter and painful is that the family did not agree on what her wants would have been. Otherwise,things would have ended peacefully and privately These decisions are made and carried out on a daily basis across this country, but usually just between a family and their physicians.

My dad passed 4 years ago from a brainstem stroke. He survived 7 weeks in a coma after the stroke. My family was also faced with these same issues since he did not have a living will. We had just come to accept that it would be selfish of us to try and keep around when it was the LAST thing he would have wanted. WE were just waitng for my brother who lives out of state to come home and say goodbye. On Christmas day, 15 minutes after we left the facility, my wonderful dad passed on his own, sparing us those horrible decisions. I truly believe it was his gift to us.

Angela I agree that whoever is closest to the person should be making their decisions for them if they aren't able. Nicole, I agree that there are things worse than death, and if I were ever to be placed in Terri Shiiavo's position, I hope and pray that my family would have the strength and courage to let me go to the wondwerful place that awaits us when we leave this world. I'll keep you and your mom in my prayers. Let's keep in touch, Joy

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slowlyhealing

Joy thank you so much for keeping my mom in your prayers.

It is a hard thing to do to absolutely define Life. Life is... well Life. We are brought here by God and we are all supposed to live life on this earth with its cruel and harsh ways, and we all suffer from it.

God gives us life, and yes he gives us the choice to live it for good or bad, there is bound to pain. I know with the up coming days, weeks, and maybe even years there are going to be stresses that will knock me down. I pray to God that I have the strength to stand up again, and go on living.

God bless you all, and yes lets keep in touch. We all share somethings in common, we all loved the ones we losts, though the memories may not be grand we hold on to them. May God grant you the strength and comfort to move on.

Praise God... I'm still here

Nicole

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Light A Candle for Pope John Paul II

Pope John Paul II has touched the hearts of many as he has traveled the world with his message of peace, hope and harmony. He is a man loved by many and has been the beacon of light for the followers of the Catholic Faith. Even non-Catholics have appreciated the deepness of his devotion. We note his passing in sadness and invite people of all faiths to Light A Candle to carry on his message of peace, hope and harmony.

http://www.beyondindigo.com/beyondtalk/lightacandle.php

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You know, keeping people alive with life-support is a hot topic, right up there with abortion. i think that Terri Shiavo's parents should have had control over her medical decisions. Her husband should have divorced her. But....what about euthanasia? would she have been better off dying that way than starving to death? And who's to say that she didn't know what was going on, that she didn't know that she was dying?

Off topic, I think it's terrible how John Paul II died. I know he used his suffering as an example, but still...no one, especially a man like that, should have to die slowly over a period of years like he did. My uncle, at least, although he died a horrible death from brain cancer---well, it only took him seven months to die.

Well, I've certainly gone off on a tangent! Sorry about the rambling, I just had to say that.

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hot topic is right. no doubt. here are my brief 2 cents on this. i feel terri was starved to death. i feel it would have been better to use euthanasia than what they did. the parents should have had more rights to the care of their daughter. her 'husband' clearly moved on with his life, and that's ok if he would have 'given' terri to her parents. as far as the pope. i felt that he did what he felt was best. when he was tired and knew his job was done, he went home. again, it is an individual decision as to how we would like our last days to be. sometimes we have no control, other times we have some control. i feel that with these situations made so public that more people stop and think about things like this and try to prepare for them the best we can at this time. it is something that is not the easiest to think/talk about but we all need to do it instead of pushing it off till later.......later may be too late. just my thoughts. heather

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Terri indeed starved to death. It's horrible. I don't think Congress should have gotten into it. In cases like that the President--don't get me started on that--should keep his Texan nose out of it. It was far to publicized a case. that's how I thought it was with the Pope...Until I found myself crying for him and wishing that I had enough money to go to Rome.

Ashley

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The short and simple answer to this debate is that everyone should make and have on file an advance directive {aka "living will").You can find free copies of these online that can be downloaded and printed out. The instructions are very self explanatory and it only takes a short time to fill out. You do not need an attorney to complete this process, just 2 adult witnesses present when you sign it.Advance directives are not a blanket consent to "pull the plug". You can select the exact measures you would want or not want to be taken and under which circumstances they would apply.Taking this one small action could spare our families from having to be put in the position of having to make these horrible decisions for us and spare them the grief and heartache that result when family members disagree. It would also prevent court actions and keep the media, special interest groups and particularly the politicians out of something that should remain a private and personal matter.

Bottom line: We should all make the small effort required to do this! Joy

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I think Terri S. was sedated after they took her off the feeding tube which means she was not conscious and did not feel hungry/feelings of starvation. We don't feel pain when we are unconscious, which I am very grateful for. So unless she was not sedated she passed in her sleep without any pain.

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No, i saw an interview where one of her best friends was talking about a visit she had the day before Teri died. She was responsive, making little grunts and other noises when the friends reminisced. I don't think she was sedated.

Ashley

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mariaceleste

Mr. Michael Shiavo was only interested in his own wishes, not the wishes of his wife, Terry, not even the wishes of his in-laws. Down to the last moments, of her life and her death, only his wishes, had her cremated, his wishes were that Terry is totally out of existance.

This man wanted to murder his wife, and did. All this talk that it should be a family private matter.A murder should not be a private family matter.If he truly loved his wife he wouldn't want her dead. When we love someone, we fight to the last moment, not give up on a loved one.

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coltinsmom

I had the same discussion with someone I work with. The media sure turned it into a 3-ring circus but did not give any of the facts, nothing to help people understand Michael Schiavo or the parents. Things like who was paying for the medical bills; if it was Terry's parents, then they should have been able to make the decision. If it was Michael then I don't understand why he wouldn't divorse her. It would have been financially smarter to divorce her (in most states the spouse would be responsible for her medical bills) and let her parents make all the decisions. I know there was a life insurance policy but it would have to have been very large in order to make a dent in those medical bills. So I suppose it could be a motive for murder if it surpassed $1 M. I think I heard that the medical bills were almost at $800,000 or more. The court believed that Terri was brain dead. There must have been conclusive evidence to support that. Believe me, turning off life support is very hard to do, even when you know there is nothing you or anyone else can do to bring back the person you love.

If I was in Terri's position, I would not want to have been kept alive. Existing like that would not be life to me. I am not sure what the truth was, what Terri wanted or if Michael Schiavo was trying to murder her. Unless Michael Schiavo decides to make all of these answers know, we will probably never know. I don't think the Bushes should have been involved though. I don't believe they care about Terri or her family, just their agenda.

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mariaceleste

It costed the life of Terri to marry Michael Shiavo, but I truly believe what goes around comes around, Like the song of Alicia Keys, "Karma".

Some people may say what life did she have, it's not for anyone to judge. Her family loved her the way she was, she was disabled, when someone is disabled, it makes you want to love and care for them even more, not end the life. I know people who are able bodied, and mind, all they do is sit in front of the TV all day. Terri was surrounded by loving parents, and who knows, anything is possible in life, she could have gotten better, with therapy. Plus her family knew Terri more than any Judge, any governor, any Neurologist. All Michael had to do was hand over Terri to her parents, Like Terri's mother said on the news, "Michael you have your children, give me back my child."

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The feeding tube doesn't really constitute as life support, but maybe i'm wrong. she could live without it, albeit for a short amount of time. And I thought brain dead meant that the person couldn't move and didn't know what was going on around them. Teri knew.

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Hopefully, if and when the autopsy results are finally released there may be some closure to this case. As of now, the only "facts" we've gotten have come from the media who stand to benefit from stirring as much controversy as possible. I agree coltinsmom, that we can't really judge those involved without having been in their shoes or knowing what they know. It's possible that her husband truly believed he was doing the right thing by her. However, that said, I also believe that at the point he decided to move on with his life, that he should have left any decision making up to her parents, who were really her next of kin. I can totally understand both sides of this story. For myself, if I were ever to be in that condition, I'd prefer to be released from this life.I would not feel that it is murder to allow this to happen, that's just my opinion. As a parent, I can also understand holding out for that last hope.My worst nightmare would be having to make that decision for one of my children.

While I don't think that what Michael Schiavo did was the wrong thing for Terri, I don't believe that it was his decision to make at all. Given that her family was so strongly opposed, the right thing for him to do would have been to step aside, let her family come to their own decisions, in their own time, no matter how long it took. This was surely a tradgedy for everyone involved. Joy

PS: Brain death is defined as having a flat EEG (no brain wave activity). Terri was apparently classified as being in a "persistive vegetative state" which means there is lower brain function but no function of the cerebral cortex (the thinking,feeling,understanding) area.Although, there did seem to be disagreement about whether or not she was actually in this state. Maybe the autopsy will confirm this?

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The feeding tube doesn't really constitute as life support, but maybe i'm wrong. she could live without it, albeit for a short amount of time. And I thought brain dead meant that the person couldn't move and didn't know what was going on around them. Teri knew.

i think that the feeding tube is considered an extreme measure, at least in pa. when my mom and i were making advanced directives, my mom originally said she did not want any extreme measures taken to save her, ex: life support, even cpr, my mom also said she did not want to starve to death. the person that was helping us with this told us that in order not to starve to death a feeding tube would be necessary if she was unable to be fed by mouth. it was listed under extreme measures. my mom said no thanks to that. thankfully we did not get to that point with her illness. that is just from my experience. heather

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Anonymous, You absolutely did the most kind and compassionate thing for your Mom.I think when any of us look deep into our hearts for the answers to these most difficult decisions rather than listening to the opinions of others,we will always make the right choice. Sometimes we have to face the fact our own selfish desire to keep our loved one with us can interfere with that choice. Like you, I am speaking from personal experience here.Four years ago my Dad, who had been an extremely healthy and vital man, suddenly suffered a brain-stem stroke.While in the ER he went into respiratory arrest and was immediately placed on a ventilator before we knew the extent of damage to his brain.This may be the problem with many others also, that life saving measures need to be started before you have an actual diagnosis or prognosis.It seems to me that people are more accepting of not initiating these measures to begin with than they are of removing them once its determined that continuing them would be futile.I don't know why that is.

To make a long story short, it took several weeks and multiple medical consults to convince us that my father was not coming back.He did eventually get off the respirator and breathe on his own, but he had a feeding tube by then.We got to the point where we knew that we had to let him go, because it was what he would have wanted and were just waiting for my brother to come from out of state to say goodbye.This wonderful man died on Christmas day shortly after we all left his side.(He died on his own of pneumonia, which we opted not to treat)This ultimately took the decision out of our hands, but only after a lot of agonizing over it. My mom is still alive so she was the one that had to officially sign DNR documents and such, but my siblings and I supported her every step of the way and we made all decisions together. It sounds to me that you had to make these decisions on your own, and if that is the case I really FEEL for you! I cannot imagine what a lonely and gut-wrenching time that would be.I am sorry for your loss and what you had to go through.I hope you can take some comfort in knowing you did the right and loving thing.I already know how you feel about spiritual issues, so I will leave off here. Just know that I am thinking of you. Love never dies. Joy

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Anonymous, you did the best thing you could. What we have to remember is that our bodies are what we travel in. funerals are just closure for the ones left behind, because the person is already gone. Their soul has left. You know, I heard somewhere that when someone dies, the body loses twenty-one grams...the weight of the soul.

I'm a writer, and this is one of my poems. It's very special to me, and I trust all of you...so please, please, don't plagiarize it. It's the strange, haunting kind that doesn't rhyme, so, here goes:

DEATH

Death

Stalking, creeping, merciless.

Dark fingers, an evil grip

At the banshee’s cry,

At the god’s demand,

It crawls, a dirty fog,

Suffocating, claiming lives and spirits

Leaving wailing children, weeping women, and silently grieving men in its terrible wake

The Devil’s weapon

The Lord’s reward.

Feared by the young

Welcomed by the old

It is timeless

It is merciless.

Like a disease, it spares none

Come one, come all

Leaving loved ones behind,

It escorts spirits to their maker

Whether it be God or Goddess

Devil, or Hades

It comes in the form of an angel,

Glowing with golden inner light

Or in the bony figure of a reaper carrying an athame

Those left behind haunt this world

With their icy fingers, and unearthly moans.

Some unworthy to enter the spirit world,

They stay, bitter toward the living.

They ensnare our minds with fascination, even though we are frightened.

Others choose to stay

They are frightened of what lies beyond, or they long for people still in this world.

They stay, some mischievous, some scared

They are nearly as frightened of death as we are of them.

Death, in its many forms, is welcomed and feared

It is avoided and embraced

The dying, the elderly slip gracefully from this world into the next

The young, the ill, are dragged by henchmen into Heaven, or hell

We fear death, although we know not what lies beyond,

For dying is like leaving a room in a museum, and moving on to the next

Each room is more glorious than the last

In death we meet our destinies

But it is in this mortal life that we choose it.

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coltinsmom

I found a website that has just facts about the Terri Schiavo case and some of the court documents. It answers many of the questions that I had and it clears up a lot of the rumors. The address is: http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html. I would love to hear what people think after they have a chance to look at the information.

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Submit your Dream

Unravel the mysteries of your dreams. Submit your dream for a FREE DREAM interpretation. Each week, a selected number of dreams will be chosen for a FREE interpretation.

Submit your Dream for a Free Interpretation

http://www.psychicguild.com/dream.php'>http://www.psychicguild.com/dream.php

A Friendly Information from

Universal Psychic Guild

http://www.psychicguild.com/

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Once again,Tisoy, this is one of the things that SHOULD NOT BE ON THE FORUM. There are people here who are grieving for the friend or loved one that they have lost. some of us are still healing and some having come to terms with it. i take that back. We are ALL healing, and always will be. Stop taking advantage. We do not need ads around here.

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Surviving a Heart Attack (just read)

This one is definitely worth your minute: I suffered a heart attack recently and I did one thing that brought almost immediate relief.

With all my strength I tried to stretch my body and overcome the bending position one is forced to when suffering a heart attack.

I put myself in supine position, put my STRETCHED ARMS TO THE SIDES at slightly greater tha right angle and stopped tossing and turning and moving my fingers, which I thought was the best way to REDUCE ADRENALINE – the main culprit of a HA. I felt almost immediate improvement in the depth of my breath, the pain the muscle cramp started receding. After 15 minutes I was able to stand up.

Putting arms to the sides looks to make the chest and muscles inside it expand and that streches the cramped heart muscle (like soccer players stretch their cramped calf by bending the foot to the maximum, just raise your arms above the head level and you can see it does make the chest expand). Staying totally motionless seems to induce a state of maximum relaxation of the body (which reduces adrenaline.) and muscles (including the heart muscle).

Please try using this technique when facing death. It can really help you and your relatives survive a heart attack.

Greetings

Peter

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Guess who is traveling the farthest to our reunion?

It's Trudi.

Trudi is traveling all the way from Australia to Minneapolis, MN for our Beyond Indigo reunion in August!

If Trudi can make it, so can you! 

Come check our reunion page: http://www.beyondindigo.com/reunion/

Hope to see you there!

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Dear Members,

We are excited to mention that we are moving to a more new and improved message boards on MONDAY MORNING AUGUST 9th! The boards will be done for a few hours while we are making the conversation. Remember we posted information about this move a month ago. For some of you this might seem a bit sudden,  but when we were reviewing the site we determined the current message board you are using is out of date and the company that designed it is no longer in existence. The good news is this new message board will have new features that have been requested in the past like more fields we can add to your profiles and a chat room up to 20 people at one time. If we find the chat room is bursting at the seams we will add additional room for extra people. All your old posts, private messages and such will be migrated to the new message board. You might have to put up your profile picture again but not sure. The new company will be doing the migration for us. Here is a short list of some of the new features on the board:

- Custom Profile Fields

- Users can customize their profile pages by selecting a background color or background image, with tiling options.

- Facebook and Twitter Integration

- users can respond to multiple posts at once with "mini-quote"

- Pinned discussion threads - like welcome to our board etc.

- Announcements made across some boards or the entire message board

- Search: Users can easily find all content generated by a particular member, by clicking the 'Find Content' button that appears on the main profile page, or in the Mini Profile Popup which can be accessed throughout the board. The results page allows content to be filtered by application, as well whether the member created it or merely participated in it.

- Privacy: allows users to sign in anonymously, hiding them from the online users list. Users also have the option to disable personal conversations and user-to-user emails, as well as ignore other users if necessary.

The next exciting piece of news about the new message board is it will have a new domain name of www.grieving.com for search engine optimization purposes. It will still be apart of Beyond Indigo and can be found through www.beyondindigo.com. We will be redirecting your current URL's to this new domain name but we might miss a few. If that is the case simply go back to www.grieving.com or www.beyondindigo.com to find your message board thread. We will try to make the transition as seamless as possible.

The bottom line is the new board will give us room to grow our community and more options to interact better with each other.

If you have any questions please direct them to feedback@beyondindigo.com.

Kelly Baltzell, MA

CEO/President

Beyond Indigo Family

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