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kelly

I Believe There Isn't a God...

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Guest Guest   
Guest Guest

Dear Everlasting,

Hi, I'm also not religious, and I'm not embarassed about it, because I'm true to myself, I'd rather be alone and stand alone, then to be lost with the crowd.

To say that this place is only to talk about loss and not my belief, just doesn't make sense, why? because my belief is that I will never see my loved ones again, in other words my belief is very much connected to the way I feel about what happens to the loss of my loved ones. Whereas some people's belief is they will see their loved ones again, and yours and my belief, is we will not see our loved ones again, it works both ways, belief is just another word that means, my feelings, what I think, what I believe. I can feel, believe , think what I want, especially if the topic of discussion is "I Believe There Isn't a God. I don't think there is a problem with that, unless people make it a problem.

MariaRosa

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Guest-

Share your loss, share how your beliefs aid you in your grief- but dont justify your beliefs...its not necessary in this forum. The problem is when people feel this is the place to tell others about their belief system, and why they are right, and others are wrong. Go back and read this entire forum, and the problem with elgs will be obvious- as will missing posts from someone called "anonymous". I can only guess who that was...

Thats the point. Your loss, and how your belief system helps you. Maybe that can help others.

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Since everyone is so curious as to what loss I have suffered, I'll explain. A few years ago, my mother was shockingly diagnosed with cancer and died. No mother and son could possibly be any closer or loved each other more. We were everything to each other. When I lost her, it toally devastated me and broke my heart. There are no words that I could say that could possibly describe how much I love and miss my mom. Even though it's been a few years now, that pain is still there. I talk to a therapist each week and I take anti-depressant medication to keep my emotions under control. I have a brother but we are not that close. The rest of my relatives behave as though I'm not alive and don't care at all. So, since I lost my mom I'm very much alone in the world without any close family. I just try as best I can to survive day-to-day because I know that is what my mom would want me to do. So, there you have it. A short summary of my heartbreaking, devastating loss.

Now, for the beliefs part. While I was raised Jewish, I never really believed or bought into the religious dogma that was preached. It never added up or made any sense to me. I always felt that with death, disease, pain, sorrow, destruction, etc, that either God does not exist or, if he did, that he would definitely be evil and not fit for worship. Those beliefs that I had only intensified and strenghthened after I lost my mom. This is how I apply my beliefs to my loss: If God exists (which there is no proof of), then he either caused my mother to have cancer or saw her with cancer and did nothing to cure, save, and prevent her from dying (in my book, that would make him evil). So, I have my choice: Either I believe that a God doesn't exist (which would mean that all of the pain and suffering in the world just happens) or believe that a God either causes it or does nothing to prevent it (which would make God evil, deservedly hated, and not fit for worship). I asked myself which belief is the most rational, logical, and emotionally and mentally healthy. My answer is since there is no proof or evidence anywhere that a being called God exists that my best choice is to totally reject faith and existence of God. Because of my decided beliefs that there is no God, it helps me cope with the painful realities of life and it provides me comfort knowing that things just happen and there is no supernatural being responsible for cruelly taking loved ones away. I feel I'm a better, mentally healthier person because of it. It bothers me very much when people try to proselytize me and make religious comments that only make feel very sad. That's why I came to this specific board in order to get away from that in hoping to find atheists or agnostics who have suffered a loss and feel the same way I do.

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maskott   

Everlasting...I am truly sorry that you lost your mother. I know the stigma is that men are supposed to be strong. They are supposed to be able to get over a loss quickly. Most people probably don't realize that mothers and sons can have a strong bond...because men tend to distance themselves from emotion. I'm sorry that you don't have the support from your family to help you through this. Understand that what you wrote is what people want to see on this forum. It's trying to help someone with a loss. I would like to think that I can support you during this time even though I don't have the answers that you need. I hope you find the help and answers you need on this particular forum but understand that we would all like to help support you in the loss of your mother.

Maskott

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Maskott

Thank you for those kind words and sentiments. I guess it was appropriate for me to express my painful loss in more detail considering what day it is today. March 27 happens to be my birthday. While there isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about how much I miss my mom, there are certain days on the calendar where it hurts even more. Today, my birthday, is one of those days. She never forgot my birthday and always made a big deal out of it. She would always take me out to dinner for a special birthday celebration. Since my mom's death, fortunately, my birthday came on a day of the week where I was at work so I was able to just stay very busy. Unfortunately, today, not by my choosing, I was given off. So I'm just at home alone trying to just stay as busy as I can so I can keep the extreme pain of this very difficult day under control. As I said previously, what at least has helped me some is my belief that there is no God who took my mom away because he doesn't exist. If I were to give in to irrational and illogical faith (believing something with absolutely no proof or evidence to make it undeniably true) then I would be consumed with extreme hatred and anger for a supernatural being called God. I would never be able to comfortably live with such a belief and be true and honest with myself. Living and believing as an atheist is what provides me some comfort, to cope, live, and stay honest with myself. And that is exactly what I will always try to accomplish when facing the cruel tragedies that I have faced.

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DeeAnn   

Dear Evr....

Some days are, indeed, tougher than others. I hope you were able to get through the day okay, and I appreciate you sharing with us. I'm sure you have a lot of happy, loving memories of times you spent with your mom. I've found that memories can get us through a lot. You take care and let us know how you're doing.

DeeAnn

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maskott   

Everlasting...Happy birthday. I'm sorry I didn't get back onto this site last night (which I usually do) or I would have wished you a happy birthday then. Yesterday was a bad day for me. Sunday was my son's birthday-he died in Aug. We had a big party for him with all of his friends coming by. The day was great. However, yesterday, reality slapped me in the face and I was so depressed that I never went back onto the computer. I just dozed on the couch until it was time for bed. I know these special days are hard. My son died during the night between Saturday and Sunday. It's still hard for me on the weekends because I'm home...nothing to distract me. I certainly understand your pain. I wish there was a magic word to say to ease all of the pain that we are in. You just have to take one minute of each day and if you can push the pain away for even one minute...you've made some progress. Your birthday is over for this year. Maybe what you should consider is going away for your birthday next year(if you can get away this time of year) I know everyone told me I should go away for Christmas. Do something different. I couldn't do that but I know it does help some people. Sometimes it's so hard not to feel sorry for yourself though. I'm sorry...sometimes I just start to ramble. I hope today is a better day.

BettyAnn

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A few weeks ago, I had to deal with another extremely difficultly, painful day on the calendar, Mother's Day. As I said previously, I lost my mother to cancer a few years ago. Me and my mother were everything to each other. No mother and son could possibly be any closer or love each other as much as me and her did. I have been very much alone in the world ever since she died. I've had a lot of bad things and devastating losses occur in my life. What helps me tremendously is my atheism. As long as I firmly reject in believing superstitious nonsense (a God or Gods), and believe that whatever happens happens and their is no evil monster named God who causes diseases, deaths, steals away loved ones, etc, because he does not exist, I can go on with my life and try my best to survive in a very lonely world without my mother. I am grateful and glad that I have no religious beliefs at all and I will continue to be committed to my logically comforting lack of faith. If I was to believe there is a God, I would be consumed with tremendous anger. If he did exist, there is no doubt in my mind that he would be completely unworthy of being loved, worshipped or followed. If God did exist, he would be described as the ultimate, evil, war criminal. In our legal system, he would be up on millions of charges of murder, abuse, and kidnapping. If I were to believe that God exists, then the conclusion I would come to is that he either caused my mother to get cancer and die or saw it happen and did nothing to stop it. If I believed that, I would be filled with so much anger and I would have even a harder time functioning daily than I do now. Fortunately, since there is absolutely no scientific evidence or proof anywhere that God exists and it is completely illogical to believe in such a diety, I can take tremendous comfort and intelligently concluding that there is no God. I will always be an atheist and completely discard and reject anybody's religious proselytizing which I 100% believe are nothing but lies. The very thought of a God existing, nauseates and sickens me. My atheism helps me and comforts me so much and no religious person will ever succeed in taking that away. I am completely satisfied and content to always life out my life as an atheist.

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What I find inappropriate is your consistently insensitive, judgemental, confrontational posts you have deliberately made to me on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, this was no exception to your previous behavior towards me. Like most others, I use these boards to pour out my thoughts and feelings in regards to my loss and beliefs. I certainly do not want or need your seal of approval for expressing it. Your opinion of what is and isn't appropriate relating to the content of my posts has no authority here since you are not in charge of this site nor a board moderator. That judgement statement is one of arrogance and invites hostility. When you post specifically to me in that manner, you should not be surprised when my response is of anger.

Also, the part you highlighted from my post is called a "rant". It was directed at nobody. It was just about very emotional subject matter that is personal. Many people come to these boards to "rant" and do so. That does not, in any way mean, that you have the insight to that individual to wrongfully take upon yourself to accuse or suggest to them anger counseling. That was another extremely inappropriate and offensive statement you made to me. If you desire to have any civil discourse with me, I would strongly encourage you to cease making offensive, judgemental, insensitive comments to upset me. Otherwise, you should instead consider not responding to any of my posts. Think about it.

Now, I will address the content of the rest of your post. Throughout most of my life, I have always had serious doubts to the existence of a God. I always had a major problem with people worshipping, praying to, and praising a God when there is absolutely no evidence nor proof of his existence. Also, I especially had a problem with it based on the state of the world: disease, hunger, death, depression natural disasters, catastrophes, etc. The idea of a God who caused or let happen such events would be completely undeserving of any kind of love or adoration. I always leaned to that conclusion. I've had a lot of loss, tragedy, heartaches and heartbreaks take place during much of my life. But, by far, the worst of them of all, to me personally, was losing my mother. She was everything to me and I miss her more than any words could possibly express. Since then, I've been very much alone in the world, on my own, without anybody. It is a hard struggle every day but I do the best I can given the painful circumstances. Her loss touched me so personally that it made me re-examine my beliefs. Before, I wasn't a declared atheist but leaned in that direction. Now, after witnessing the suffering my mom went through and helplessly watching her die (which completely devastated me and broke my heart), I no longer just lean toward thinking there is no God, I now 100% know it in my heart and my mind. I also no longer just lean towards thinking that if the unlikelihood of God existing he would be a sadistic, cruel, evil monster, I now 100% know that to be true in my mind and my heart as well. That is what I consider the effects of my mom's death has had on my beliefs. Unlike before, now I am confidently certain and 100% sure. I am a totally honest person and I cannot and will not live what I would consider to be a lie. The God-belief that others participate in and live by, I personally have no doubt as being a 100% lie that I completely reject. If others want to live worshipping and believing in a God that either doesn't exist or is evil, that is their freedom of choice. What I have a major problem with is when they try to argue with me, coerce me, and proselytize me. I get extremely angry when these God-believers behave this way because my rejection of God-belief is very important to me in staying honest and accepting the truth. At the same time, I am immune to any of their dishonest deconversion attempts on me. Like I said before, I refuse to live a lie. And, to me, the biggest lie of them all is what the God-believers preach and believe which I want no part of. Atheism represents the rationality, logic, and rejection of the supernatural which is vital to the truthful existence I wish to live and I am fully committed to embrace it. Atheism satisfies and comforts me knowing that I'm being honest with what I perceive to be a reasonably true,logical explanation to life's questions rather than the false explanations of god-belief that comes to the entirely wrong conclusions.

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People who post on message boards such as this are obviously in pain. When you decide to address and specifically post to someone, it should be done with respect and sensitivity out of proper manners and courtesy. You have a responsibility to choose your words very carefully in order not to upset that individual or make them feel worse. Sadly, you have failed miserably in that regard. The attitute you have displayed towards me has been the complete opposite. Someone, such as yourself, who attepts to talk down to people and acts superior is the very last type of person that I would want to converse with or enter into any kind of dialogue. Your recklessly obnoxious behavior towards me is very inappropriate and completely uncalled for. Unfortunately, your latest response demonstrates those facts.

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You're the one who fits that obnoxiously arrogant decription I just gave. How about you learning not to post specifically to an individual who you have done nothing but bother and antagonize? If you looked in a mirror at all your posts directed at me and were honest, all you could see is someone who deliberately asked for anger and hostility. If you didn't want those type of responses, you should have decided instead to be more civil which appears to be out of your capacity. The only nonsense here is your consistently provoking comments which draws nothing positive. Well, by coming onto a grief support message board and targeting others by hurting them even more is a truly disgusting way to live your life. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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It's good that you admitted your mistake. There's just one major problem with your statement. Prayer is worthless and accomplishes nothing since there is no existence of any God or Gods. So, there is no supernatural being out there to forgive. Also, if a God existed, the state of the world makes it impossible for him to be described as perfect and would be totally unworthy of being addressed as Lord. However, since the likelihood of a God existing is so slim, prayer and using names like Lord is completely out-of-touch with reality. You came here expressing you were an atheist. I suspected by your confrontational behavior towards me that you were being dishonest about your beliefs. Your theistic language just proves my suspicions were correct. The name of this specific forum reads "I believe there isn't a God." It was created for those who reject the existence of any god or supernatural being. Your last post indicates that you have been posting on the wrong forum.

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kelly   

Evrlastingodstopper & Gonedog,

Please stop your current debate between each other and take it into email. This type of discussion doesn't add to the board. If you continue I will delete posts.

Thanks!

Kelly

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Hi all,

I am not part of any organized religion and so I have had to search for my own answers about why my brother killed himself - well I know why but all the bad things in his life that lead up to it - and where he is now.

I know I don't believe in Hell. And I am sure I have felt him around me since he died. So I do believe his soul/spirit is close by and involved. And I know that he is happy now and free, I get that feeling from him.

But from there I don't know where to go.

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sdimarzo   

Nicole,

I am so sorry about the death of your brother by suicide. For more information on your troubling questions concerning suicide, the "afterlife" and whether there is a heaven or hell please read, "WALKING IN THE GARDEN OF SOULS" by George Anderson. I believe a great many of your questions will not only be answered but your heart will be soothed and comforted, as well.

Always a friend,

Steve D.

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Here are some of my favorite books that are the 100% truth and appropriate for this particular forum ("I believe there isn't a god" forum. Some people need to realize where they're posting and what is acceptable material.) These books should provide great comfort for those intelligent people who want to live by logic, reason, and reality, instead of brainwashed, delusional, god-belief, after-life fantasy. I highly recommend each of these books as they reveal the absolute truth about the falseness of christianity and all religions and exposes everything regardng the supernatural as blatant lies and puts everything into the proper context and perspective that everyone should realize in order to stay mentally healthy and sane.

Atheism: The Case Against God

By George H. Smith

The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold

By Acharya S.

Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist

By Dan Barker

Why I am not a Christian: And other Essays on Religion and Related Subjects

By Bertrand Russell

Atheist Universe: Why God didn't have a thing to do with it

By David Mills

The Born Again Skeptics Guide to the Bible

By Ruth Hurmence Green

The Book Your Church doesn't want you to Read

By Tim C. Leedom

The Impossibility of God

By Michael Martin

God's Defender's: What they Believe and why they are Wrong

By S.T. Joshi

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sdimarzo - Steve D,

I thank you for your suggestion. I was not offended. I have a very open mind and as I wrote I am still searching for answers.

evrlastinggodstopper,

Thank you as well for the books you recommended. I came to this site to deal with the loss of a loved one who commited suicide and I am still trying to understand it. The why´s and what if´s. Also, I really need to believe he is happy somewhere.

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peter1   

Surviving a Heart Attack (just read)

This one is definitely worth your minute: I suffered a heart attack recently and I did one thing that brought almost immediate relief.

With all my strength I tried to stretch my body and overcome the bending position one is forced to when suffering a heart attack.

I put myself in supine position, put my STRETCHED ARMS TO THE SIDES at slightly greater tha right angle and stopped tossing and turning and moving my fingers, which I thought was the best way to REDUCE ADRENALINE – the main culprit of a HA. I felt almost immediate improvement in the depth of my breath, the pain the muscle cramp started receding. After 15 minutes I was able to stand up.

Putting arms to the sides looks to make the chest and muscles inside it expand and that streches the cramped heart muscle (like soccer players stretch their cramped calf by bending the foot to the maximum, just raise your arms above the head level and you can see it does make the chest expand). Staying totally motionless seems to induce a state of maximum relaxation of the body (which reduces adrenaline.) and muscles (including the heart muscle).

Please try using this technique when facing death. It can really help you and your relatives survive a heart attack.

Greetings

Peter

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I don't believe there is a connection between the love of a God, and the pain and suffering, and death of this world. Why must I believe it because the bible says it, that sin entered the world, I don't believe it, I don't believe everything I hear and read.

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It's good to see there are some new people on this forum who do not believe in the existence of God. Welcome to both MariaCeleste and Mariposa. Since I came to this site, this forum has been a pleasant surprise and discovery. There is no other grief support site that specifically has a forum for people who have suffered a devastating loss that are either atheist or agnostic and that are able to post freely without fear of attempted proselytization and religious coercion from those who do believe. I give the owners and moderators of this site tremendous credit for creating this forum which satisfies the needs of people like me. It fufils a great service to atheists and agnostics who had no other alternative. I have expressed in depth both my devastating loss of my mother and my non-belief in the existence of any God. I hope that both of you, MariaCeleste and Mariposa, share similar views, thoughts and feelings as me, so we can exchange good conversations from our experiences where each of us would feel more comfortable and benefit in knowing we're not alone in our beliefs. I look forward to hearing from you.

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Thank you Everlasting, and Mariposa for your comments.

Besides what I said about not believing what the bible says, another simple example, is what I read here earlier about, this place was to talk about your loss and not your belief. Because for me what you believe and your loss are connected, I wrote this before, that your belief and your loss are connected.

But then some people's interpretation is the religious belief, you see,

but I'm not talking about one's religious belief. I'm not religious, so that word is not in my vocabulary. Because religion is connected to God and I don't believe in God. Belief meaning your opinion, thoughts, and feeling, that meaning of the word belief for me. How is my belief connected to loss, I have to have an opinion about my loss, a feeling about my loss. Words are really important to me, and I will decide how I want to interpret them.

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Hi Everlasting,

I understand this place is to talk about loss, but when I started reading, people's reaction, towards people with different beliefs/opinions, I didn't feel it would be a good idea to talk about loss, because if people didn't care about your beliefs/opinions then they wouldn't care about your loss.

I've been to other sites before and the same thing happened there, too. When I started reading how cruel people can be, because not all people share the same beliefs. I decided not to talk about loss. To tell you the truth what drew me to this site was reading your beliefs.

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