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kelly

I Believe There Isn't a God...

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Griffinsmom,

You need to take your prejudice against atheists, elsewhere. This is a forum to post for those who do not believe there is a God. In other words, it is for atheists like me so I can express my thoughts and feelings in peace without someone like yourself coming here to obnoxiously attack. As I said before, you do not belong on this forum and you need to respect and follow the rules of this site.

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Hey- Have at it. It dosent matter what I say or think....Are you here because you have had a recent loss, or to push Athiesm? This site is not for advertising Athiesm....we are people who have suffered tremendous personal loss, and are looking to make sense out of it all. I have a right to disagree with your statement(s), no matter what forum.....I do find the way you speak threatening, and what you are saying repulsive- and I have that right, too. My conversing with you has given me a negative experience and subjected me to hostility I do not need in my life. Wow Kid, You make a good Athiest. Maybe you need a more supportive environment. My wish is you never type my screen name in here again- I dont want my sons name at your fingertips- to be honest.

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Griffinsmom,

The answer to your question is: A combination of both. I have had a very devastating loss in my life. Atheism is an important part of how I can deal with it in a mentally healthy way. I am not pushing or advertising atheism to anybody. I am just freely expressing my beliefs on the correct forum that was created for my specific beliefs. I am well aware of this site being about loss. Atheism is how I cope and make sense of it all. The reason why there are separate non-belief and belief forums is to communicate with others who have like-minded beliefs to avoid conflict, hostility, confrontations, and adding additional pain to others. To come here and verbally attack me because you don't like my personal beliefs is what is really repulsive, threatenning and undeserved. By the rules of this site, you don't have that right. I came to this particular forum to be free from receiving hostility from people like you. And I certainly do not need to converse with you, either. But then again, it wasn't me who was posting on the wrong forum. You did that. And it wasn't me who went after an individual and ridiculed them. Again, you did that. Your kid referral to me is being rather rude and disrepectful. I am an adult. I doubt very much you are since you certainly don't behave like one. I am a good person and proud of my atheism. There is no doubt in my mind that my beliefs are correct. This is supposed to be a supportive environment for me because this forum is for those who reject beliefs in any God. If some atheists successfully find this forum then I will be more than happy to converse with them as they will provide the comfort and support this forum was created for in the first place. I wish you would never post on this forum ever again. Atheists who have lost loved ones do not need to be confronted with such an obnoxious, disrepectful, person like you. To be honest, I came to this forum so that I wouldn't have the displeasure of dealing with people like you. You should remove your son's name because you're embarassing his memory by how you hostily treat others who you disagree with.

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Dear Griffin's mom, could you somehow get me your e-mail address or phone number? I'm a Christian but, oops, went on the wrong thread. Take Care okay, love, Renee

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How incredibly offensive. My son is very proud of me. WOW....You have just strengthened my faith- by your example of humanism. Faith- That would be believing in something you can't see or explain. Its a free website / forum- I have simply expressed my opinion on what I have read. I do not know you- maybe some professional help with all the anger? There are also herbal and pharmaceutical products that can help. Sorry for your loss, sorry you feel so incredibly attacked. Actually, it is possible people treat you with hostility because you are hostile in your communications. Take a look at yourself and you can look at others differently- put your hand in the hand.....la la la la...old school music. Just came into my head- thought Id share.

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Griffinsmom,

Since you had offended me with your comments, I simply did not tolerate it and responded appropriately under the circumstances. And every time some religious person takes the attitude towards me that you have it only strengthens even more my non-faith and non-belief. You did get the definition right regarding the word faith. For me to believe something, I must have proof. I must know it beyond a reasonable doubt. There isn't anything a religious person could ever say to me that would convince me they are telling the truth. Faith is blind. Unfortunately, the majority goes along with it. I won't. Many have tried to proselytize me and I have rejected them every time. Others have insulted me and made threats towards me and it still has not shaken my beliefs against God religion and everything associate with it. So, neither you or anyone else can convince me of anything as to what you believe. Sure, its a free website. However, I have far more respect for it and its rules then you do. I have read the "I believe there is a God" forum. I 100% disagree with everything those people say there. I think their beliefs are nothing but garbage and lies. Have I posted there? No. Why not? First, it would only cause hostility, unpleasant confrontations, and cause me more sadness which I don't need. Second, that forum is the total opposite of what my beliefs are so I know I shouldn't be poting there anyway. I have this forum which represents my beliefs and I just stay here to post it. That is the respect that I show to this site. You, on the other hand, have shown no respect for this site and obviously don't care about anyone but yourself. because if you did, you wouldn't be posting on this forum, deliberately starting an argument with me and antagonizing me. Since you don't know me or my situation, you are certainly not qualified to give me any advice. I do not appreciate your suggestion. My anger towards you is completely justified. I was just posting my beliefs and you come here with your nasty comments directed at me. I won't take that from anyone nor should I. The people who treat me with hostility are those who don't like the beliefs I express. They come at me with hostility like you did. After that, I respond accordingly. I came to this forum to hopefully talk to atheists, agnostics, humanists, that share like-minded beliefs where there would be no potential for hostility. You, unfortunately have decided to ruin that by posting on the wrong forum. To be so selfish and thoughtless, you should be ashamed of yourself. Now, hopefully, maybe you'll understand the problems you've caused and decide to do the correct thing and no longer post to me or on this forum anymore. I can only hope.

P.S. As you could see below, a person who uses the username Aprilsmom, who is a Christian, realized that she was posting on the wrong forum and stopped. You should do the right thing and follow her lead.

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Good Morning-

Im thinking there was a deleted post, for as I re read- the voluminous exhaustive verbiage- I do not see the word "stupid"....or find anything offensive enough for me to comment. I dont typically use the word "stupid". Therefore, I must conclude that a post has been deleted. Maybe I was hallucinating.

Many assumptions have been made throughout your posts.

1- you call me a religious person.(amongst many other things)

Good luck on your journey. The Grief does things to people.

I believe Aprilsmom was being facetious.

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mattsdad   

I agree with you, griffinsmom.

Aprilsmom was being facetious.

facetious---

1.joking or jesting often inappropriately.

2.meant to be humorous or funny:not serious.

Don't you get it,elgs????

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Griffinsmom,

You are mistaken. No post of mine or any portion of it was been deleted. Maybe you were trying to find something to use against me in order to cause more trouble for me. Who knows. Since you used a "gift from God" term in one of your posts, anyone would conclude that you are somewhat religious and a God believer. From that, it would not be a stretch to assume you are religious. Even if you weren't, no non-religious person who totally rejects a belief in a God (which is what this forum was created for) would have any problem with anything I have posted. So, you are clearly on the wrong forum, violating and disrespecting this site's rules. My grief journey would help a great deal if I had other atheists, agnostics, who shared my like-minded beliefs. That would give me some comfort to talk to others who are rational, logical, and intelligent enough to see religion and God beliefs that others are brainwashed to believe as nothing but a fraud. You are obviously not such a person. By the way, Aprismom never posted on this forum before. Since she stopped herself in her post, there is no way to assume that she was being facetious. It was clearly an honest mistake on her part of posting on the wrong forum which she understood and admitted to.

Mattsdad,

It is not funny to delare yourself a christian on a forum created for atheists. She has the believers forum to post on. If it was done as a joke it was in extremely poor taste. I believe this was not the case. It was just an honest mistake and she did not intentionally behave that way to deliberately violate the rules. Don't you get it, Mattsdad?

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You know, it's not your beliefs...it's your style.

BTW...who is Anonymous1? I go back in these posts and there is much reference to A1, but I don't see all these posts and reference information people are referring to.

Also- I must have missed Matts Dad referring to himself as a Christian in the post- or anywhere before it....

November 11,2005 - February 28,2006 is quite a time spread in posts.

While this is not impossible.....but???? I do not see any details of the struggle with your loss or how your beliefs help you- all I have seen is reference material, and some very personal attacks.

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Okay, I have a confession to make (seems I have to do a lot of THAT lately). I have read this particular thread for months. Most of all, because I am a reader at heart. I came to BI because, like most, I've suffered an enormous loss and have difficulty coping and communicating with the rest of my family who are also suffering immensely. I really never understood why have this particular thread on beliefs/religions at all because that comes out on all the other threads. There are other places on the net regarding those issues that do not relate with grieving and maybe they would be best kept there. Yes, I am a Christian, but that doesn't mean I don't question God or His plan (i.e. allowing April to leave us at such a young age). He did, afterall, give us a brain to do just that. I tend to believe that everyone has the right to choose (Eve didn't have to eat the apple) and won't infringe on anyone's right to do so. I do, on occasion,try to sway people into thinking my way; only because I tend to LIKE people and want them to be happy/happier, sheesh...I don't know. I can guarantee you I won't come back to this site/thread again because I don't have the energy to do much but miss my daughter. Peace to all here. Thanks Mattsdad and Randi - you know me too well:) - see you on "loss of a child". Renee

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DeeAnn   

As a member of the administrative staff here at Beyond Indigo, I would like to explain the purpose of this particular discussion/thread for anyone who might wonder and/or anyone who has misunderstood its purpose.

Everything about this site is done with the hope that it can help those who are grieving the loss of a loved one get through that loss. For the vast majority of people who do embrace a spiritual belief, that belief system gets them through much of the heartbreak we face while grieving. For those who are agnostics or atheists, this isn't an option, so we have placed this thread here to help those people deal with their loss. It is NOT a place to try to convert nonbelievers, it is not a place to belittle the beliefs of others, nor is it a place for spiritual/religious debate and/or confrontation. A little tolerance is definitely in order here.

In reading the posts of late, I cannot find where you have talked about the specifics of your loss, Evrlastinggodstopper. Since that *is* the purpose of these and all other discussion boards here at Beyond Indigo, can you please share that with us?

I hope future posts will be in the spirit of support of others who are grieving the loss of a beloved friend or family member and not personal confrontations as there have been. This isn't the place for that.

DeeAnn

Administrative Staff - Beyond Indigo

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mattsdad   

DeeAnn,

Thank you for your post. My previous posts were not meant to be mean-spirited. While I may have been out of line with the original purpose of expressing a counter belief(i.e. I believe there isn't a God) I came to express my support for griffinsmom. My intent was to let griffinsmom know that she was not alone...

We of faith that have lost a child are a close-knit group who abhor the thought that we are wrong in trusting that our children are still with us in spirit.

With the sad state of our emotional roller coaster we sometimes lash out at the non-believers. It is so much easier to NOT believe than to make that leap of faith...

So in the future I will make it a point to avoid this particular thread---and to stick with the more appropriate forums that you have afforded us.

Life is way too precious than to waste it on people that drag us down----rather than lift us up....

Repsectfully,

Jeff(mattsdad)....

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Thanks for the support.... truthfully, I'm glad to see I have any fight left in me at all. Something was said regarding stupid, superstitious and ignorant- and it just got to me. I'm sure Griffin is laughing at me, glad to see me acting like my old self-. I am being a bit antagonistic..."I'll Admit"...( a Griffin phrase)

As for Mr. Godstopper..."Tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself to make yourself feel good"...(another one of my sons great argument enders)

WOW Kid- I believe Ill get back to my life now- thanks for the show.

My Bad, Dee.

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DeeAnn   

I love it, griffinsmom! God works in mysterious ways. You go girl! :) :)

DeeAnn

p.s. Please know that my previous post was not directed at any individual...just trying to clarify.

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maskott   

Just to put in my two cents. DeAnn is right when she says this is a forum about a loss. We are here to discuss the loss of loved ones. It is not a forum on informing people about agnostics or atheists. Articles defending this decision are not the purpose. We would like to hear about the loss of the loved one and see if there is anyone who can help you deal with the loss. Just my thoughts.

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DeeAnn,

I commend you for creating specifically "I believe there isn't a God" forum. There are many atheists, agnostics, and other non-believers who lose love ones, too. They need a place where they can go to share their thoughts with people who have like-minded beliefs. It is of no comfort to us when a religious person makes a God comment or of a religious nature. It only upsets us and provides us with more pain. When discussing loss, religious believers are the very last individuals I would ever want to discuss it with. You see, I have tried other support group sites. When I have explained my beliefs along with my losses, the religious people have tried to convert me, proselytize me, convince me of things, argue with me, and when they found out they could not succeed, they would then insult me. That's why this forum is very much needed for people like me. It's purpose is to provide a safe haven so we can feel free to talk without having to encounter believers with the antagonistic behaviors I just described. This is what should be the case as non-believers express themselves. Unfortunately, there have been believers who have come on this forum where they clearly shouldn't be. These people have a believers forum where they can share their like-minded beliefs. Why do they feel it's necessary to come on this forum and act in a way where it ruins things for someone like me? Do they just not respect the rules or are they deliberately looking for an unpleasant confrontation? It looks like either of those things must be true. Let's look at some examples: Griffinsmom didn't like some of things that I said in a previous post. There's only one one problem with that. I was not speaking to her directly and there was no need for her to jump in since it was not specifically addressing her. Here is a terrible admission of what Griffinsmom tried to do: She admitted being a little antagonistic (Her own words). In other words, she provoked a confrontation with me. I post on this forum to specifically avoid that behavior because I've received too much of it in the past from believers on other sites. Here is another admission form AprilsMom: She is a Christian. Knowing this, she should know that this isn't the forum for her. Also she admits that she likes to sway people to her way of thinking. In other words, she tries to convert and proselytize others. Again, that is the last behavior that a non-believer like myself wants to encounter and this forum should be free of that as well. The final example is of MattsDad: He admits that believers like to lash out at non-believers. In other words, he decided to come on a forum where others have totally different beliefs and ridicule them. Again, a non-believer like myself came to this particular forum to get away from believers who behave in this manner. So, there you have it. Each of those individuals' closed their comments by stating that they will avoid this particular forum in the future and post on other forums that are more appropriate for their needs. They should have realized this in the first place. I hope they are being honest about that. If they are, there will be no unpleasant confrontations in the future and I will be able to post as a non-believer on a forum specifically for my beliefs without worrying about believers intrusions and upsetting comments. Hopefully, other atheists, agnostics, and non-believers who have lost loved ones will eventually find this forum so we can talk about it in peace.

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mattsdad   

elgs,

I never said believers "like" to lash out at non-believers...

Having said that---get your facts straight before you attribute them to a poster....

And by the way... May I respectfully ask what loss you have experienced in the past.

I am truly sorry if you have lost a family member or close friend.

My prayers and thoughts go out to you. Your loss can mean nothing less than a loss of any other person on BI....

Jeff

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ELGS- As far as my knowing that "she should know this isn't the forum for her..." -- This whole website was created for people that have lost someone and are grieving (we're still wondering how you fit here?). If you read all the threads (your right to do so) you will find that it is normal for grieving people to question the existence of God. I really wanted to see how a non-believer copes with death so that I could find help for myself (AGAIN, what the website was created to do....). As far as trying to "convert" anyone; what was that whole book you first wrote if not a method of trying to "sway" people to YOUR way of thinking? Did I come on and say how offensive that may have been to me? No, I didn't and you never will know what I think about it because you don't listen very well. How old are you anyway? Let me ask again for all of us: "Have you lost someone"? If you haven't, then YOU are on the wrong site, not us! While I'm chatting, and since America was founded on the freedom of speech and I'm done listening to you psycho analyze all of us parents: I think YOU JUST CAME TO THIS SITE TO DRAW PEOPLE LIKE US INTO A DEBATE AND TO INFLATE YOUR EGO. Now, whether that's true or not, and since no one here really cares if it is or isn't.....either way, I hope you have a peaceful day and are comforted by whatever means you believe in. Take Care, Renee

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Mattsdad,

Okay, you didn't specifically use the word "like". However, you did say that you "sometimes" lash out at non-believers. My point was that since this forum is called "I believe there isn't a God", no non-believer should be subjected to that behavior here and is what I personally wanted to get away from. To answer your question, I had an absolutely devastating loss in my life. But, it is those of a like-minded, non-belief that would give me satisfaction and some comfort to discuss it with. I'm hoping that some non-believers find this forum where I can feel comfortable in entering into that dialogue.

AprisMom,

Your assumptions about me are very much mistaken. First, yes this site is about losing someone. But, these forums are broken up into categories in order to accomadate an individual's specific needs. I have never been a religious person and I have always dedicated myself to completely reject religion. I have always been a combibation of atheist and agnostic. From all the losses I have had, it just strengthened my rejection of religion and God belief. I'm proud of that. Also my non-belief is extremely helpful to me in regards to my outlook on life. Since you post on the believers forum and have stated agreement in their views, there really isn't anything gained or constructive for you to listen to someone who has a totally different perspective. As far as some of my previous posts you questioned, I listed many of my favorite atheist books which I agree with any helps me. Also, I posted an essay called "The Atheist Manifesto." Sam Harris is one of my favorite non-believer writers and in the essay he expresses what I believe so very well. Sometimes those writers find the words to express what I believe better than I can which is why I post them. And the reason is not to try to convert anyone. It is just representing what my views are in regards to the God concept, religion, and the Bible. No, you didn't come on here and tell me how offensive you thought it was. That's true. However, you complained on the believers forum to a person named Mark and said how much it sickenned you. And Mark agreed and bashed those beliefs of mine. While I did not appreciate you and Mark on the believers forum negatively discussing my postings on this forum, I did not respond. I kept all my postings on this forum and ignored what was being said on the other beliefs forum. I did lose someone who was everything to me. As far as my age and my story of personal loss, with your God beliefs, I do not feel comfortable giving you that information. I came to the "I believe There Isn't a God" forum to exclusively discuss that with non-believers and Atheists. That is my purpose for posting here. I have not psycho-analyzed anyone. There are those who suddenly decided to confront me here with some attacks on my beliefs. I merely defended myself. I have no ego and your accusation of me looking to draw others into a debate is false. If that was my goal, I would have posted on the "I believe there is a God" forum. But, I didn't. I posted on a forum which described my beliefs expecting only like-minded people to post here so there would be no unpleasant, confrontational debate. Thank you for your closing sentiments. Everyone should be able to decide for themselves what feels right in order to help them and is in their best interest. In my case, it is definitely being a combination of Agnostic Atheism.

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"From all the losses I have had, it just strengthened by rejection of religion and God belief. I'm proud of that. Also my non-belief is extremely helpful to me in regards to my outlook on life. "

I'd like to know your losses, and I'd like to know how your non-belief is extremely helpful to you in your outlook on life, as well as handling your devastating losses.

All our losses are extremely devastating, and we are all searching for answers. Maybe if you explain yourself, and not use the words stupid and superstitious-etc. regarding "believers", this could actually be a learning situation for all. All the boards are for everyone, and you can comment if you want. The moderators can always delete a post if it is horribly inappropriate.

Hey, maybe I can learn something that can help me! After loosing children, I'm sure most of us have questioned God a time or two. I have had an absolutely devastating loss (many) in my life, too- but none so devastating as the loss of my son. My questions and curiosity is what brought me to even look at this forum- which I have every right to do. But, I dont like to be called stupid.

"It has been said that those who understand something thoroughly will make the explanation of complex subjects simple, and of course the reverse is also very true."----George Anderson

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Dear Elgs, thank you for trying to explain to me when I know you don't have to do that. I think if everyone of us got in a room together, that no matter what we believe in, there would still be lots of diversity and differences of opinion. Sorry if you thought Mark and I were bashing you; wasn't really intended but it must have come out that way and we don't want to be looked at like "those" type of believers.....we know we are not judges. I will close on this note and then stay off the board (probably:))- My condolenses for your loss of a loved one, I know it hurts like there is no tomorrow and I know that Love is Stronger than death........it just has to be! Renee

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DeeAnn   

Evrs,

I hope that you have been able to recognize and appreciate the fact that several people here are concerned about the losses you have experienced in life, and they have shared their own losses with you. On Feb. 22, 1998, Eddie, my husband of 21 years, died in my arms after a 10-month battle with cancer.

These forums are *not* a place for you or anyone else to attempt to further one's own agenda as you have taken the opportunity to do on numerous occasions. You apparently have a gross misunderstanding about the purpose of this site and all of its message boards. You have made your personal beliefs abundantly clear to all. Your next post will need to be explaining your loss(es) and not defending your beliefs, ridiculing another for theirs, and certainly not telling anyone they don't have a right to post here.

DeeAnn

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