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      Hi all,  I'm sure you've noticed some changes in the forums. We've again had to do some updates, so that's why things may look a little different. Nothing major should have changed.  Also, we are going to start adding advertisements sensitive to our community on the boards. This is something we are experimenting with, and we will certainly make sure they are in the best interests of everyone. We want to make sure our forums continue to stay accessible and cost free to all of our members, and this is a way to ensure this.  If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to privately message me or email me at Konnie@beyondindigo.com.  As always, we will be here with you, ModKonnie
kelly

I Believe There Isn't a God...

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BIJulie   

Beyond Indigo Is Looking for Message Board Monitors

Interested in volunteering a few hours each week to monitor a message board and interact daily with the Beyond Indigo community? We're looking for monitors to share their experience, strength and hope. If you are interested, contact Julie at julie@beyondindigo.com for more information.

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sdimarzo   

mariaceleste,

What is a false Christian? It is my hope that we are to be tolerant of one another's cherished beliefs by trying to be understanding and forgiving, even when we feel that we have been hurt by another's personal opinion of what they believe in!! Only after we pass on to the next level of life will we see exactly what our life here did for us by how well we institiuted those precious universal principles of forgiveness, acceptance, understanding, compassion, love tolerance, generosity and peace to one and all, whether they were a believer or non-believer!! Our life becomes meaningful and rewarding not by what we believe in, but in what we do with it when it comes to loving our fellow man or woman regardless of beliefs, attitudes, desires, opinions, and whether or not one believes in GOD!! Your personal beliefs will be openly received and respected here, at least that is my desire!!

Always a friend,

Steve D.

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BIJulie   

Hi all –

I’m sure you’ve noticed that the message boards seem a little different. We’ve streamlined the message boards. We’ve unified the forum and thread names and tried to make things less confusing. I hope that it has made things easier for you.

We are considering adding new threads to the topics and would love to hear what you would like to be added. You can write me at julie@beyondindigo.com to share your thoughts and suggestions. I would love to hear from you.

I am also still looking for message board monitors. If you are interested, please let me know!

Take care,

Julie

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hmtod73   

hello anonymous1. heather here. i have been reading your posts all along. i also have been (slowly) looking into some of the sites and verses that you listed. i am interested to learn of your thoughts/beliefs. i had a cousin who was an atheist but i never had the chance to discuss things with him. now, he is passed on. i do find other people's beliefs interesting. i was wondering if you were brought up with these beliefs or with other beliefs?? what do you believe happens to a person when they die?? what i believe is different than what i was taught to believe. i think that at this time in our lives, we will not be able to have all the answers to all our questions........but i still have alot of questions. i will continue to look into the info that you posted, slowly but surely. thanks heather

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hmtod73   

hi anonymous1. thanks for responding to me. i agree with you that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs about god/religions and the such...........anything for that matter. and i respect people's beliefs, or at least i try to. years ago, i worked in a hospital with a man who was very much into religion. however, he pushed it on his co workers and on visitors and on patients. people never even mentioned god or religion but he was right there in our faces all the time. it became obnoxous (sp). i know he was told by our boss about it but to this day he still is like that. that type of thing bothers me. if i have a question or want to decuss something....ok. but don't push things on me. he just did not accept that. now, because of that experience, i try so hard not to do that to people and i try to respect other's beliefs. i do have another question for you. in your beliefs, do you believe that love, honesty, sharing, caring, understanding, compassion, forgiveness, ect are all important in life.....day to day life. do you believe that stealing, cheating, lieing, abuse, selfishness, ect are all bad/negative things??? i am not trying to be mean in any way, these are honest questions. like i said, i never had the chance to ask my cousin.....i never thought about it like this either. i have noticed that as i get older my thoughts/views/opinions/ have changed from what i used to think. i guess that is all apart of life and growing. i just enrolled in a local community college and some of these topics may have something to do with my choice of study in the future. ok, i will post again later. thanks, heather

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Dear Anonymous,

Hi, I really respect your honesty in your beliefs. You know why I say that? Because I know a lot of people, who are not honest about what they believe. I don\'t believe people care about anyone\'s belief, and should not be correcting anyone\'s belief. You can believe what you want, as long as no one goes around hurting anyone. I don\'t think it\'s right, if you, or me come to these discussion boards, and people try to correct how we feel, that\'s just plain wrong.

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Dear Anonymous,

you sure were unfairly under attack, for your beliefs. I'm not sure if that is what the bible teaches, that if someone doesn't believe god, go attack. I don't think God does that. I believe the way to defend God is by following, obeying etc. what he says. The love your neighbour, your enemy. That's the only thing that bothers me, if someone is going to call themselves a Christian, they should back it up with their actions, Actions speak louder than words. That's why I say, I'd rather be an honest Atheist than a false Christian. You are so right, you don't need to be a Christian, to be a good honest person.

Anonymous, I know if I believed in God, I don't think I would need to come to these forums for comfort, seeking comfort from other people, because I know I have God in my life. You know what I mean? If God comforts you, why do you need the comfort of people? But then you would problaby get an answer like this, that God uses people to comfort you. I don't believe that. I'll talk to you soon.

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hmtod73   

hi anonymous and mariaceleste. i read your posts and here are my thoughts and questions. i guess the questions i asked about what qualities you uphold was not thought thru very well. my dad does not follow any religion nor was he brought up to follow any religion, but he is a good man with all the "good qualities", so we can X out that question.

how do you find comfort in your grief process?? what seems to help you?? family and friends?? are you offended when someone says to you "i'll keep you in my prayers", not knowing that you do not follow a religion. how do you handle that???

mariaceleste, you wrote: if god comforts you, why do you need the comfort of other people. i do think that after talking about my feelings, i feel somewhat better. i don't know if i personally feel comforted, but i feel like i got it off my chest. talking about things and letting out your feelings/thoughts/and emotions is healthy. i'm not sure what i think about god and religions. i know what i was taught but i'm just out there wandering around trying to find the answers that please me the best. i do think it is a personall thing, whatever you are comfortable with.

i will be starting college classes this summer. i am persueing a masters in social work with an emphasis on berevement and gerontology and some religion mixed in there. as with any job/career, it is always best to be a "well rounded person"..........at least that is what the colleges say :)

i am taking "classes" to be a hospice volunteer, only 33hrs. interesting stuff. i'm enjoying the classes. i am also going to a grief supprot group that our local hospital offers. i enjoy that too. all of this is a learning experience for me. my children seem to have a great understanding/acceptance of death........much more than i had expected them to. they are 3yrs and almost 5ysr old. i enjoy reading books on the afterlife. i am a slow reader but i get it done. i also belong to a group that focuses on the paranormal. so, now that i wrote all this i am not sure where i was going with it :) well, i'm done for the night and off to bed. thanks for reading this. heather

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jaysmyne   

Hi Anonymous1. It's interesting that you say you get offended when someone says they'll keep you in their prayers. You say it offends you because they're assuming then that you're religious, also. Yes, there are alot of religious people out there, but often people will make remarks about keeping you in their prayers regardless if they're religious or not. Socially/culturally it just seems the right thing to say especially when it comes to the loss of a loved one. So you can't really assume that everyone who says they have you in their prayers...is religious, and I am sure, they do not assume that you are religious. It could be said out of sheer politeness. What is prayer really? It's an intimate mind/heart/soul connection between a person and what they perceive to be their god/force/higher power/etc. For the religious it literally means the difference between ending up in heaven or hell. For the spiritual it means keeping in touch with one's own higher-self. For the rest there are many different reasons for praying...or not. Instead of feeling offended the next time someone says they will keep you in their prayers...feel honored that someone cared enough about you to include you in their positive goodwill. Prayers are good thoughts and wishes...and we can all use them.

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jaysmyne   

Just for the record...I am the most non-religious person anyone will ever meet. However, I do believe in a higher force that we are all intricately a part of, whether we know it or not. My Mom had several near-death experiences before she died on November 15, 2004, all of which we discussed on many occasions. Just so you know, it does not matter to our Creator what we believe in. His only concern is that we love one another and live good lives. Religion is man-made and is not mandated by God or any other entity. We only have ourselves to blame for that, as we do for the evil in this world. Evil is human-inflicted and has nothing to do with the will of God. Evil is the absence of good...and sadly there is plenty of that in our world today.

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anonymous 1

I have to disagree with you about the prayer thing. I am not religious in any way shape or form, yet I do what I consider praying to my son who passed and to others I love that are on the other side. I think Christianity was a construct that was designed to control the masses and that what many people consider fact are just religious fairy tales. To me prayers are communication and positive energy that can be sent from one person/entity to another. I believe it is all about love and love is energy. Just a way to send my positive support and love to another. So maybe it is just the definition of what prayer is that is the problem? What do you think?

Coltinsmom 4ever

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chas00   

The faith it takes to believe there is not a God is awesome.

Such strong faith to believe there is not a God. Hope there is not a God to admonish his children for not obeying. Yet we live our human lives admonishing our own. Teaching our children, rewarding for excellence, rebuke for disobedience. How dare our Father in Heaven do the same to his children. On earth to prison the noncompliant yet how dare our Father in heaven due to same to children of Satan.

Faith the Bible is full of fairy tales from wondering minds. Literature to persuade the weak and meek yet God wants us to endure with patience and without resentment, stand strong and not be pushed around.

I never saw Abraham Lincoln, but if I read they tell me he was here http://www.historyplace.com/lincoln/index.html

I never saw John F Kennedy but they tell me he was here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/jk35.html

I never saw King David of the Bible but they tell me he was here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/jk35.html

I never saw Rachel of the Bible tomb, but they tell me she was here

http://www.rachelstomb.org/

Will our coming generations believe Muslims, in the name of God, steal our

peace with bombs, and planes in to buildings. How strong will they believe.

That history shows that in the name of Christianity took lives in the name of God. Were they really with God?

Have you gone out to eat and been mistreated? Yet you still continue to go out to eat. Have you been some place but was blantanly maltreated?

Yes let past, present and future history persuade you from Christ.

Have faith that there is no God.

The fairy tales we weave:

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Revelations

16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

How strong is the faith of the unbeliever, hoping and praying there is NO GOD!

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swede1   

You know, once in awhile I check out these threads under this forum and am really confused as to what some people are saying and doing here. I'm not saying WHAT I believe or don't believe here so far, simply because there seems to be all this cross-over from the 2 different threads and it is very confusing as to which one you're actually IN!

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Swede1 - OH YA. I thought this thread was "I believe there isn't a God" yet most of what I read was pertaining to there "being a God". I started at the bottom of the thread and read up and was confused by the time I got to the top.

My thoughts on this subject is that we need to believe whatever makes us a good person. I think that there are lots of great things that come out of religion...but there are lots of bad things also. And who is to say "Christian" is better than Muslim or Buddah (sp) or whatever. Is Christian the oldest religion? I don't think so. Who wrote the bible? Who rewrote the bible...how many things were lost in translation? Or reworded in translation? How many times do we hear that God is the only Judge? How many Christians Judge us for not being "born again"? How many are judged by the color of the skin? Or sexual prefrence? I know many that don't believe and are the best people I know...I also know many that spew the scripture and are mean hearted.

Do I believe? Ya, kinda. It has become very shaky as I get older and start looking at how others believe and look at the different religions world wide.

These are just my thoughts, my opinion. I don't feel that others are bad for believing what they believe, I feel that if it makes you feel good, go for it. But I also think that everyone needs to take a very hard look at there actions and mind set and weather they are TRULY good people, I feel that is the most important.

Denise

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There Is No God (And You Know It)

By Sam Harris

Somewhere in the world a man has abducted a little girl. Soon he will rape, torture, and kill her. If an atrocity of this kind not occuring precisely this moment, it will happen in a few hours, or days at most. Such is the confidence we can draw from the statistical laws that govern the lives of six billion human beings.

The same statistics also suggest that this girl's parents believe--at this very moment--that an all-powerful and all-loving God is watching over them and their family. Are they right to believe this? Is it good they believe this?

No.

The entirety of atheism is contained in this response. Atheism is not a philosophy, it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. Unfortunately, we live in a world in which the obvious is overlooked as a matter of principle. The obvious must be observed and re-observed and argued for. This is a thankless job. It carries with it an aura of petulance and insensitivity. It is, moreover, a job that the atheist does not want.

It is worth noting that no one ever need identify himself as a non-atrologer or a non-alchemist. Consequently, we do not have words for people who deny the validity of these pseudo-disciplines. Likewise, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make when in the presence of religious dogma. The atheist is merely a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (eighty-seven percent of the population) who claim to "never doubt the existence of God" should be obliged to present evidence for his existence--and, indeed, for his benevolence, given the relentless destruction of the innocent human beings we witness in the world each day. Only the atheist appreciates just how uncanny our situation is: Most of us believe in a God that is every bit as specious as the gods of Mount Olympus; no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that such a God exists; and much of what passes for public policy in our country conforms to religious taboos and superstitions appropriate for a medieval theocracy. Our circumstance is abject, indefensible, and terrifying. It would be hilarious if the stakes were not so high.

Consider: the city of New Orleans was recently destroyed by hurricane Katrina. At least a thousand people died, tens of thousands lost all their earthly possessions, and over a million have been displaced. It is safe to say that almost every person living in New Orleans at the moment Katrina struck believed in an omnipotent, omniscient, and compassionate God. But what was God doing while a hurricane laid waste to their city? Surely he had heard the prayers of those elderly men and women who fled the rising waters for the safety of their attics, only to be slowly drowned there. These were people of faith. These were good men and women who had prayed throughout their lives. Only the atheist has the courage to admit the obvious: these poor people spent their lives in the company of an imaginary friend.

Of course, there had been ample warning that a storm "of biblical proportions" would strike New Orleans, and the human response to the ensuing disaster was tragically inept. But it was inept only by the light of science. Advance warnings of Katrina's path was wrested from mute Nature by meteorological calculations and satellite imagery. God told no one of his plans. Had the residents of New Orleans been content to rely on the beneficence of the Lord, they wouldn't have known that a killer hurricane was bearing down upon them until they felt the first gusts of wind on their faces. And yet, a poll conducted by the Washington Post found that eighty percent of Katrina's survivors claim that the event only strngthened their faith in God.

As hurricane Katrina was devouring New Orleans, nearly a thousand Shiite Pilgrims were trampled to death on a bridge in Iraq. There can be no doubt that these Pilgrims believe mightily in the God of the Koran. Indeed, their lives were organized around the indisputable fact of his existence: their women walked veiled before him; their men regularly murdered one another over rival interpretations of his word. It would be remarkable if a single survivor of this tragedy lost his faith. More likely, the survivors imagine they were spared through God's grace.

Only the atheist recognizes the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved. Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of a catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving God, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs. Because he refuses to cloak the reality of the world's suffering in a cloying fantasy of eternal life, the atheist feels in his bones just how precious life is--and, indeed, how unfortunate it is that millions of human beings suffer the most harrowing abridgements of their happiness for no good reason at all.

Of course, people of faith regularly assure one another that God is not responsible for human suffering. But how else can we understand the claim that God is both omniscient and omnipotent? There is no other way, and it is time for sane human beings to own up to this. This is the age-old problem of theodicy, of course, and we should consider it solved. If God exits, either He can do nothing to stop the most egregious calamities, or He does not care to. God, therfore, is either impotent or evil. Pious readers will now execute the following pirouette: God cannot be judged by merely human standards of morality. But, of course, human standards of morality are precisely what the faithful use to establish God's goodness in the first place. And any God who could concern himself with something as trivial as gay marriage, or the name by which he is addressed in prayer, is not as inscrutable as all that. If He exists, the God of Abraham is not merely unworthy of the immensity of creation, he is unworthy even of man.

There is another possibility, of course, and it is both reasonable andthe least odious: the biblical God is fiction. As Richard Dawkins has observed, we are all atheists with respect to Zeus and Thor. Only the atheist has realized that the biblical God is no different. Consequently, only the atheist is compassionate enough to take the profundity of the world's suffering at face value. It is terrible that we all die and lose everything we love, it is doubly terrible that so many human beings suffer needlessly while alive. That so much of this suffering can be direcly attributed to religion--to religious hatreds, religious wars, religious delusions, and religious diversions of scarce resources--is what makes atheism a moral and intellectual necessity. It is a necessity, however that places the atheist at the margins of society. The atheist, by merely being in touch with reality, appears shamefully out of touch with the fantasy life of his neighbors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/there-is-no-god-and-you-_b_8459.html

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The essay I posted below was written by one of my favorite authors, Sam Harris. Harris completely shows that if there is a God that exists, he would definitely be evil and not someone who should be loved, worshipped, or followed and is completely unworthy of humans. Harris also logically demonstrates that the most reasonable conclusion is to live in reality and realize since there is absolutely no proof or evidence of any God or Gods, that he does not exist. That is the atheist position which is the only one that is intellectually honest. I felt so much comfort reading Harris's essay because it represents my thoughts and feelings on the "God" concept and exposes the totally irrational, illogical, unprovable, out-of-touch with truth and reality which all religious people, such as Christians, unfortunately, sadly cling to. Writings like Mr. Harris's are such an inspiration to me. Like him, I analyze things, and don't deny the obvious. Anyway, here are some of my favorite books, including from Mr. Harris, that successfully refutes religion, the bible, and the existence of God. These books are the absolute truth and I highly recommend each of them.

Atheism: The Case Against God

By George H. Smith

The End of Faith: Religion, Terror and the Future of Reason

By Sam Harris

The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold

By Acharya S.

Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher To Atheist

By Dan Barker

Why I am not a Christian: And Other Essays on Religion and Related Subjects

By Bertrand Russel

Atheist Universe: Why God Didn't Have a Thing to do with it

By David Mills

The Born Again Skeptics Guide to the Bible

By Ruth Hurmence Green

The Book Your Church Doesn't want you to Read

By Tim C. Leedom

The Impossibility of God

By Michael Martin

God's Defenders: What they Believe and why they are Wrong

By S.T. Joshi

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WE ARE ATHEISTS BECAUSE...

* There is no proof of the existence of god.

* There is no need of, or use for, a god.

* A good god would be useless if it were not powerful.

* A powerful god would not deserve worship if he were not good.

* There is no all-powerful good god; otherwise there would be no imperfection.

* If this is the best world god can make, the stories of Heaven must be lies.

* History shows that godism is accompanied by ignorance and superstition.

* There has never been such intolerance and persecution as godists have practiced.

* Godism had to be fought when humankind made its successive steps towards science, liberty, and reform.

* Godism was invented in the earliest days of mankind's ignorance. It is incredible that primitive humans guessed wrongly about everything else, but discovered the truth about the origin of life. Everything about which science has discovered the origin was claimed previously to have been the work of a god. Godism recedes when a new fact is discovered. No new discovery ever supports a theistic explanation of anything.

* Godism is consistent with crime, cruelty, envy, hatred, malice, and uncharitableness.

http://www.atheists.org/visitors.center/because.html

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Guest Guest   
Guest Guest

You are right!

God only exist when we have our own god.. example

my husband thinks hes god,(god made adam) he also thinks god made goddess(women)

but whos to tell wether god is real or not, who are we to judge..lol.

I think all mankind is God and all females are Goddess, it's just that these gods on earth now has created our world as a disater and becos of that our world is now gone even worser and what makes it worser when mothernature has had enough of all the wars and treeloggers and so on, these globalwarmings are happening so quick and god(man) has helped destroy our earth.. So who is really God!

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WOW~

I am by no means stupid or ignorant or superstitious...etc....but godstopper...WOW...I feel terrified at your comment- and Im not a religious person...but your post and the idea that people really are this way just shakes me to the core. My morning is wrecked- for the moment- for if I can still survive my (gift from God) sons passing...(a free will accident)...I can survive some ramblings of people who ...OMG...got to go, getting sick. This forum is revolting...sorry.

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Guest.

All are entitled to their opinion.... true enough.... so here's mine.

If all of us who do believe in God as God, Jesus Christ of Nazareth's sacrifice for our salvation and sins, ARE wrong? What do we have to lose for believing?

If All of you who do NOT believe in God in Heaven and a judgement day, where we are found accountable for the way we have lived our lives on this earth, ARE WRONG? Where is your soul headed? Who has the most to lose here? No laughing matter.

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I have posted some articles that do an excellent job at representing my beliefs. Now, I'll use my own words expressing my own thoughts and feelings about my total rejection in a belief in a God. I believe in all likelihood that there is no God. There is absolutely no evidence anywhere to suggest that such a being exists. No Proof whatsoever. At the same time, I believe that even if there was a God, which is extremely unlikely, he definitely would be evil, cruel and not fit for praise or worship. There is death, disease, pain, sorrow, destruction and so many other horrible things that happen in this world. The most logical, reasonable, intelligent conclusion and mentally healthy attitude to take regarding all the pain and suffering that takes place is that there is no God. Whatever happens, happens. There is no God who either causes human suffering or sees it happening and does nothing to prevent or stop it. That's my approach and how I live my life. The only other reasonable conclusion, but not mentally healthy attitude regarding all the unfairness and suffering in the world would be an evil God exists. Then, if this god did exist, he would be responsible for either causing the suffering or not preventing it. But, since an evil God is highly unlikely (a good God even far more unlikely), then it is wise to live your life free of religious and God belief. Besides, to believe that a horrible God exists means that all the losses and pain and suffering that is taken place in my life would be solely blamed on him . I can't live with that. What I can live with is the fact that there is no God to blame for any of it because he does not exist. That is the best and most mentally healthy way to live my life. It's too bad that others don't do the same. I am an Agnostic Atheist and extremely proud of it.

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Clittlelady,

I do not believe that such a Character as Jesus ever existed. If he did exist, Jesus was definitely insane. The whole salvation, sacrifice for sins story is the most absurd, ridiculous, false, story ever told. All of the God stories are just as absurd and illogical. There is no proof that a heaven exists. It is just another irrational, illogical belief just as God and Jesus. A judgement day is an obnoxious threat to brainwash and scare religious people to keep them believing these myths. I have no proof that there is such a thing as a soul and neither do you. On that note, a soul may not be heading anywhere. I care what happens in life. You have the most to lose by living yours on irrationality which are things that are totally illogical and can't be proven and are extemely unlikely. I choose reality and common sense.

P.S. You are on the wrong forum. This forum is for people who reject God and religious beliefs. Since I do not violate the rules and stick to this forum which was created for my beliefs, I suggest you do the same so we can avoid unnecessary arguments, animosity, and hostility.

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Griffinsmom,

That description of what Atheists believe I got from the american atheists website. I happen to totally agree with it. People who are religious and believe in God were either brainwashed by their parents, their church, or society. It's true. Otherwise, they would correctly reject such beliefs. With such beliefs, they are, regrettably believing ignorant and superstituous nonsense. I am a very honest person and consistently express the truth. Most religious people treat me with hostility because they refuse to accept the truth and are offended by it. That's why I specifically post only on this forum because it is a safe place for me to post without any unpleasant confrontations. This forum would never be considered revolting to anyone who saw religious beliefs and belief in God for the lies that it is. So, I have no idea what you're doing here posting in the first place. With your gift from God comment, it is obvious that you are on the wrong forum. You should stick to the forums that agree with your belief system instead of coming to a forum that you have a problem with someone's beliefs that you disagree with. I respect the rules of this site. You need to do the same.

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