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Almost 3 year ago


Clifford

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I'm sorry you feel so abandoned KMB.  We will always listen, but I know that is not the same.  Some of our talk earlier led me to this one,

There is a sacredness in tears. They are not the mark of weakness, but of power. They speak more eloquently than ten thousand tongues. They are the messengers of overwhelming grief, of deep contrition, and of unspeakable love.

Washington Irving

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Herc--- * I will aspire to be the widow/widower that my husband/wife would be proud of*---from the widow/widower next door

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Clifford is right in that some people do avoid us because it's uncomfortable.  But I'm with you, KMB, I don't let them off the hook, a true friend, to me, sits with you and doesn't desert you or avoid you.  Unfortunately, all of mine did.  BUT I made a new friend and a few years later she also lost her husband...and guess what?!  I was there for her.  Now she's moved to another state and remarried so I'm missing her, although happy for them.

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I had a good day today, woke up confident, got stuff done, got to take care of my daughter and teach her how to cook a steak.  I felt almost whole at some moments.  I know a part of her was with me today.

 

Love is when (they) give you a piece of your soul, that you never knew was missing.
- Torquato Tasso

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Herc, Thank you for posting positive. It helps me greatly. I have moments also when I can accomplish something. They are only moments though. Yesterday, I shoveled 3" of soft snow. Doesn't take long to shovel on both sides of the house and paths out to the driveway. I felt guilty though because I had to block out thoughts of my husband in order to do this chore. Before he passed, during previous winters, we would have been outside together. He would have been plowing while I did the shoveling. It seems so selfish that I have to block out thoughts, images and feelings of my grieving in order to function at doing anything.

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KMB,

Blocking things out is sometimes necessary for the everyday tasks that have to be done, but at the same time, I'm sure you know as well as I do that blocking things out is only a temporary fix at best. The longer and harder you try to do it, the harder and more painfully the thoughts will come back and hit you in the end. I sometimes wonder what's worse, having a constant, persistent pain, or having alternating periods of manageable pain versus excruciating pain. 

I don't think it's selfish though. We're doing what we have to do to get by. Just make sure you let yourself feel the pain after you're done with whatever you're doing. I just got out of a work meeting, and during the meeting I fought to keep the pain away, but now it's hitting pretty hard. My stomach is twisting up and I'm feeling a little sick. But I got something done. I earned my pay for the morning, but this evening I'll "pay" for it by probably curling up on the couch and just being in agony.

This state of being is not fair. Nobody should have to live through this, but yet here we are. It's hard to think we didn't do something, or fail to do something, to deserve this kind of pain. Guilt can drive you mad. It's an effort of great proportions just to get through one day, one hour at a time. I hope that someday all of us fine some peace and comfort, and the ability to at least live a little without constantly being sad. But for me I don't see it yet. 

Holding on, hugs.

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KMB,

Thank you.  I've been having a lot of self doubt about some of my positive posts.  Am I artificially rushing my grief journey?  Does it mean my love for Christine wasn't as strong as it should have been? Am I hurting others by sharing where I am in my process?  Am I setting myself up for a bigger fall at a later time?  Am I still in denial and this is how I am fooling myself?

The answer to all of those questions I am almost sure is no.  But the human mind can do some terrible things from time to time, and at my low points those negative thoughts creep their way in.

The good thing about the positivity is that it is self reinforcing.  The more positive I feel, the more I can focus on the bright spots.  The more bright spots I focus on, the more positive I feel.  An upward spiral, or at least that's what I hope.

But the other part I try to make sure of is that the positivity isn't masking the pain of my loss, it is incorporating my experiences and love for Christine.  It is incredibly hard work some days, and there are long times where I just can't muster the energy.  It gets a little easier to get back to it every time I fall though.

I guess what it really breaks down to in the end is that I need to do what I am comfortable with, and stop worrying about some of the outside factors.  The words of thanks really did bring me some peace of mind though, so thank you.  In the spirit of the thread

To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.

William Shakespeare

Thanks again,

Herc

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Herc, Thank you for the quote. *To thine own self be true*, reminds me of the song, Fancy. My husband and I shared a love of Reba McIntire and the gift she has of belting out her music. Those few words from the quote and the song have always resonated.

I don't know if anyone has experienced this: when you are posting positive for others, do you find yourself, at the same time, in the grief pit? I have poured my heart out and my fears and tears, the negativity, many times here. Also, many times, in the middle of posting to someone to give them what I can of myself in comfort, I've had to get up from the computer and have my cry and try to compose myself to come back. I don't want to be a hypocrite in my postings. That's why, Herc, the Shakespeare quote got to me.  I want to be true to myself, my grieving and also for others. I am trying so hard to hang onto that person that I was before this unwanted loss in my life.My husband and I had so much in common. We helped out each other and others always. I am afraid of losing me but I know that my loss has changed me. i'm too tired emotionally, mentally to think about it.

The biggest issue for me, is that my husband and I never left each other *behind*. If he had a break down with his truck and had to limp it to the shop, I would get the call, *come and pick me up, dear*. If he had an appointment and was somewhere else, *come and pick me up, dear*. If he was in the hospital and I would visit, I'd ask when are they going to let you come home? One evening or morning would finally come and he'd call, *come and bring me home, dear*. A few times on my end, I had to make that call, *come and pick me up, dear*. I still feel like I am waiting for that call that is so sadly not coming. I cannot go somewhere and bring him home. My husband is at his true *home*, some other spiritual dimension. I am waiting for him to come and take our pets *home*, ( I know they will pass away before me) and then I'll be waiting for him to come and bring me *home* also. If I just knew when that day was, I would have the motivation to do more, to tackle the neglected household chores, to purge the accumulating clutter, to have my own affairs in order. It has been almost 6 1/2 months. It feels like 60 years.  I am still in the grief pit, not knowing if I want to stay there or try harder to climb out.

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3 hours ago, KMB said:

Herc, Thank you for posting positive. It helps me greatly. I have moments also when I can accomplish something. They are only moments though. Yesterday, I shoveled 3" of soft snow. Doesn't take long to shovel on both sides of the house and paths out to the driveway. I felt guilty though because I had to block out thoughts of my husband in order to do this chore. Before he passed, during previous winters, we would have been outside together. He would have been plowing while I did the shoveling. It seems so selfish that I have to block out thoughts, images and feelings of my grieving in order to function at doing anything.

KMB, 

I'm sorry it's so hard for you. Grieving is hard work sometimes. Keeping busy does help, I don't block my grieving though, I think of my wife as being being with me as I work in the garden or sit by a big fire in the backyard. We have a fire at Christmas, she was a Christmas baby ( Holly ). We burn the tree from the previous year. It helps that I have a big family. I hope you can find the inner peace you are searching for. 

A man's ( woman's ) dying is more the survivor's affair than his own  

Thomas Mann

 

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KMB,

I have the same issue as you. I try to write inspiring or uplifting things on here but I find that I am myself deep in the pit of depression and grief as I write. I find myself feeling hypocritical too, that I'm telling other people to take care of themselves, eat and sleep, all that, but even I still struggle to do those things. I still struggle to meet my basic needs. I struggle to get out of bed, to eat, to do any housework, anything. I feel like it's easy for me to tell everyone else to do it, but when people give me the same advice I can't follow it any more easily than before.

We can't be the people we were before loss. It's impossible to just be the same person again, because in order to be that person, we would need our soulmates to still be alive and in the world with us. I think this goes back to something I've said before, that emotional pain, suffering and anguish are invisible physically, but are in a lot of ways far more profoundly difficult to live through. People compare death of a soulmate to losing your limbs and having to learn to do things differently. But imagine how helpful it would be if we lost our limbs but had our soulmates there to help us. I don't think the comparison can truly capture the depth of loss. 

Clifford,

Your quote is absolutely spot on. The dead do not suffer from earthly pain. They don't suffer from the limits of our mortal bodies, the fragility of them. They exist on a higher plane of existence, where supposedly everything makes sense and there is comfort even in pain. But those of us left behind...We are the ones who must bear the pain of the loss. This may sound selfish, but our loved ones are on the other side, learning the truth about existence and happiness and this life we live, while we're stuck here feeling and suffering the pain of loss, and we will be suffering that loss forever, at least until it is finally our turn to pass on.

 

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2 hours ago, Herc said:

KMB,

Thank you.  I've been having a lot of self doubt about some of my positive posts.  Am I artificially rushing my grief journey?  Does it mean my love for Christine wasn't as strong as it should have been? Am I hurting others by sharing where I am in my process?  Am I setting myself up for a bigger fall at a later time?  Am I still in denial and this is how I am fooling myself?

The answer to all of those questions I am almost sure is no.  But the human mind can do some terrible things from time to time, and at my low points those negative thoughts creep their way in.

The good thing about the positivity is that it is self reinforcing.  The more positive I feel, the more I can focus on the bright spots.  The more bright spots I focus on, the more positive I feel.  An upward spiral, or at least that's what I hope.

But the other part I try to make sure of is that the positivity isn't masking the pain of my loss, it is incorporating my experiences and love for Christine.  It is incredibly hard work some days, and there are long times where I just can't muster the energy.  It gets a little easier to get back to it every time I fall though.

I guess what it really breaks down to in the end is that I need to do what I am comfortable with, and stop worrying about some of the outside factors.  The words of thanks really did bring me some peace of mind though, so thank you.  In the spirit of the thread

To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.

William Shakespeare

Thanks again,

Herc

I love Shakespeare, and many others. Through the centuries of the written word the losses are expressed. We are not alone in our grief. Everyday someone somewhere is experiencing a new loss. I truly can't imagine how many, I really don't like to dwell on it to long. That cycle of life, for all living things  I don't think that there is a measurement for love. Though many have tried to put it in words.

Your lamp was lit from another lamp. All God wants is your gratitude for that.                                    

Rumi

Cliff

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9 minutes ago, fzald said:

KMB,

I have the same issue as you. I try to write inspiring or uplifting things on here but I find that I am myself deep in the pit of depression and grief as I write. I find myself feeling hypocritical too, that I'm telling other people to take care of themselves, eat and sleep, all that, but even I still struggle to do those things. I still struggle to meet my basic needs. I struggle to get out of bed, to eat, to do any housework, anything. I feel like it's easy for me to tell everyone else to do it, but when people give me the same advice I can't follow it any more easily than before.

We can't be the people we were before loss. It's impossible to just be the same person again, because in order to be that person, we would need our soulmates to still be alive and in the world with us. I think this goes back to something I've said before, that emotional pain, suffering and anguish are invisible physically, but are in a lot of ways far more profoundly difficult to live through. People compare death of a soulmate to losing your limbs and having to learn to do things differently. But imagine how helpful it would be if we lost our limbs but had our soulmates there to help us. I don't think the comparison can truly capture the depth of loss. 

Clifford,

Your quote is absolutely spot on. The dead do not suffer from earthly pain. They don't suffer from the limits of our mortal bodies, the fragility of them. They exist on a higher plane of existence, where supposedly everything makes sense and there is comfort even in pain. But those of us left behind...We are the ones who must bear the pain of the loss. This may sound selfish, but our loved ones are on the other side, learning the truth about existence and happiness and this life we live, while we're stuck here feeling and suffering the pain of loss, and we will be suffering that loss forever, at least until it is finally our turn to pass on.

 

Fzald,

I don't think it's at all selfish. When people say they are in a better place, it may be true. But for me, I think a better place is here with me. That's selfish, I know. Don't care. 

Cliff

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KMB,

Many times in the midst of a post I have had to stop, and cry, and get the emotions out.  That is one of the ways I know I am posting what I should.  I need that to help gather my thoughts on my emotions.

The other people need it as well, because it will truly reach them.  What we say comes out differently at those times.  We always try to help, understand and empathize with one another, but when a poster hits that raw emotion it is different.  I know I have felt the emotions come through the screen, knowing that the person that was typing it up was hurting when they typed it, but also healing as they did so.  It is so important for all of us to write what we are really thinking and feeling here, for ourselves, and for one another.

I am trying to keep what I can of the person I was before the unwanted loss as well.  But I know that it has changed everything about my life, and will thereby change me.  I want to do everything I can to make that as positive and beneficial a change as possible.  Some of the changes will not be, at least not for quite some time.  I know I won't laugh as much as I used to for a long time, and my friends and family will miss that, as will I.  I may be more introverted and private.  I was always contemplative and thoughtful, but this will probably increase those tendencies.

And all of that is ok, if any of it happens, it is a necessary part of my journey.  The things I can do to make my change more positive is use this as an opportunity to grow many of the qualities I so loved about Christine.  She was always the kind and compassionate one, the one who thought of others and wrote thank you cards, the one who remembered birthdays and called people for no reason other than to tell them she loved them.  I can't be her, but I can learn from her and do some of the things she used to do for us in the relationship.

Who knows if I will be successful?  It is a long road, with many pitfalls, and I may not be able to do it.  What I do know is that I won't have the chance to succeed if I don't try.  That having been said, I can't try every time.  When I hit those lows, it is time to just breathe, get through the moment, and wait until I find the strength to try again.  I'm not telling anyone what to do on their grief journey, everyone's is unique to them.  Hoping we all find some peace in the emotional chaos of today,

Herc

"There are no strangers here; Only friends you haven't yet met"

William Butler Yeats

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Thank you Clifford. 

When people say to me "What do you think she would want?" My first answer to that is "TO BE ALIVE! TO BE HERE WITH ME!"

Because that is what she wanted. That I have proof of, in the fact that she had made plans with me for Valentine's day, and more importantly, our future together.

Some people do wish to die. Some of us here wish to die because of how much pain grief brings. But I can tell you wholeheartedly that at the time she died, my girlfriend was not wishing to die. In no way was she even considering her own death. She planned for a long life ahead of her. She planned for a life with me

So, what would she want? To be alive. To be here, living the life she wanted. 

I know she can't be here, and it breaks my heart just as much as the fact that I can't have her here. So maybe it's not as selfish. Because I grieve for her as well as me. Sometimes the thoughts that bring me intense sadness are not "I have lost her", but are instead "She has lost something." I want to cry when I think of all of the things in life she never got to experience. I shake in pain when I realize that her dreams on this Earth will never be fulfilled for her. It's even more heartbreaking than my losing her. It's not fair to me, but it's way more unfair to her. 

Is the other side a better place? Maybe it is. Maybe she has learned to be satisfied with what she got. But I'm not satisfied. I'm not OK. I'm not happy. I'm not doing well. Without her here I am empty and lonely, but also, without here here, I also lose the joy of watching and being by her side as she lives life in this world.

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37 minutes ago, fzald said:

I find myself feeling hypocritical too, that I'm telling other people to take care of themselves, eat and sleep, all that, but even I still struggle to do those things.

Fzald,

I don't think that is hypocritical at all.  You are trying to do those things for yourself, just having difficulty in getting it done.  You aren't trying to mislead them, or harm them, you are sincerely interested in trying to help them, and know all too well that one of the ways they need help is managing those basic needs.

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KMB,

You wonder about being hypocritical because you try to post positive for others while you yourself have a good cry...

I don't think you're being hypocritical at all.  I think you're struggling, as we all have, trying to make some sense of this, trying to get through it, but still hurting like hades, we have all that to contend with and more.

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Clifford, Herc, fzald, KayC-----Where would we all be if we didn't have each other's back on here? I thank God for all of you. There have been so many days in these past months where I have truly wanted to give up. To be blunt, I have flitted with the idea to take my pets in and have them euthanized. That would be truly selfish to cut their lives short when they have given me comfort and unconditional love. And then thinking how to most efficiently end my own suffering. There are only 2 people in my life that I can call if I need to talk it out. But it is a timing thing. These people work so I can't just call when I feel I need to. I do have the suicide crisis # written down, but thankfully haven't fallen that low. I come onto this forum and start reading posts. This forum and everyone here has been my life line, and I truly mean that.

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KMB,

Please promise me you will not take your life.  It's so important to give ourselves the time to heal and adjust, we have to hang in there long enough to find some glimmer of hope, something to live for.  It takes longer than I can say, but we have the time...and when our time runs out we get to go be with them.  I know what it is to fight despondency but most days I do really well, that first year was really tough though, okay, maybe first couple of years or so.  But it will get better as you adjust.  You have all of us to talk to.

Besides, most vets will not put a healthy animal down, they'll let you pay for euthanasia and then they'll take the animal to the shelter.  I could never bear for my dog or my cat sit in a cage, wondering where I am and feel insecure and scared or hurting because I'm gone.

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KMB,

I want to echo what KayC said, please promise us you won't take your own life.  We all do have each other's backs here, you would be sorely missed here.  I understand the feelings, but we do not need to rush to be with them.  I can't tell you what to do, and would not judge you for any decision you made, but my sorrow would be increased if that is possible.  We may not be able to see any reason to continue right now, but the opportunities to find the reasons to go on are out there waiting for us.  Right now don't try to find the reason, just take it one moment at a time and let those opportunities come to you.  You are cared for more than you know,

Herc

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"Only in the darkness can you see the stars"

Martin Luther King Jr.

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KayC, Herc--- I don't have the *intent* to end things but have thought about it when I have been at rock bottom. The loneliness of lost companionship and not being needed by my husband is so darn tough to deal with. I know that time, incorporating new routines and other activities will help with that. A few days ago, I talked with the leader of the grief support group. There are no grief counselors or therapists in the surrounding area. The best she could do was give me the name of the counselor who has sessions one day a week at a local clinic. I already knew this information from doing my own research. This counselor is basically for family counseling and maybe bereavement counseling is an avenue she has dealt with.

I knew that this first winter was going to be tough. What with bad weather and road conditions. I was actually handling things a little easier when my husband first passed and I had plenty of outside chores to deal with.

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Herc,

I love that quote, it's a good reminder that darkness serves purpose.

KMB,

I think we've all felt that way, it's a struggle. 

Counselors are not all the same.  I'm not sure a regular counselor that's not trained in grief would be of help for the reason if they don't understand grief, how can they guide us through it, they might say things that hurt rather than help us.  At least, thank God, we have this place.  You can always ask the counselor if they have specific training in grief, but if not, I wouldn't see them, quite honestly.  I've known too many that were NOT helped by regular counselors.
 

I'm still getting snow, more expected today through Tuesday.  Everything in my life has to plan around weather forecasts.  Will be glad when Spring comes...it's slower coming to Oregon.  Here winter can last seven months.

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KayC---I've checked this counselor out. She deals with run of the mill family issues. So I don't think she would be right for me. This forum is still my place to go.

I hear you about winter. It is very windy here today. Have thought about making the drive into town. Fog and rain tomorrow. Rain all day Monday. Waiting for the warmer also. Being outside has always helped in keeping me centered.

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Sometimes it's all kind of scary, isn't it? The time we have here is not infinite. The days are not promised  we can only do what we can do while we are here. I know our loved would not want to waste our moments. My wife told me find somebody when she was still thinking clearly. I told her I would never remarry, she was the one. I will keep that promise. But I think they was her way to tell me to carry on. She was so sweet, not perfect. None of us are. I feel guilty when I just want to lay in bed. Because she wouldn't want that. I try to make her proud. 

Suffering is a revelation 

One discovers things one never discovered before

Oscar Wilde

 

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Cliff,

That is so close to my own views on this whole process.  Thank you, I'm going to have to look up some more on Oscar Wilde.  Hope you are getting through as well as possible,

Herc

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1 hour ago, Herc said:

Cliff,

That is so close to my own views on this whole process.  Thank you, I'm going to have to look up some more on Oscar Wilde.  Hope you are getting through as well as possible,

Herc

Getting through it as well as possible is the key. 

Cliff

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4 hours ago, Clifford said:

Getting through it as well as possible is the key. 

Cliff

Herc,

I think you will enjoy his point of view and his quotes. I find him to be very clever.

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KMB,

I'm sorry the counselor won't work, but I've seen some do more harm than good if they don't know beans about grief.  They fly by the seat of their pants and dish out bad information.  I'm all for a professional grief counselor, but absent that, most of us know more about grief than a regular family counselor. :(

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KayC----My situation could be a lot worse if it wasn't for finding this forum. I have everyone on here to give a million thanks to for keeping me going.

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"There is a discomfort that surrounds grief. It makes even the most well-intentioned people unsure of what to say. And so many of the freshly bereaved end up feeling even more alone."

Meghan O'Rourke

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I was seeing a counselor for a while, but I could tell she had no direct specialist knowledge in grief. She gave me the standard platitudes, things I could just as easily have gotten from someone on the street if I'd told my story. No real strategies for dealing, or coping, just "Find something to keep yourself busy" and "know that it will get better someday." Yeah, gee thanks.

I haven't been able to find any "grief counselors" around here. We are a relatively small town, so maybe the nearest ones are in the larger cities around here, I dunno though, they're at least an hour away from here if not more. 

I think this forum is still one of the best places though. It might be that none of us are "certified" to handle grief, but we all ARE handling it, we are all experiencing these feelings, and there's no better people to validate how you feel than others who are also feeling the same thing. We don't freak out if someone say they wished they were dead, we don't go nuts and call 911 if someone says they're having physical symptoms of grief. We listen and understand, and we all know that most of these things are all part of grief. Things like suicidal thoughts have such a strong stigma in our society that I think a lot of people who TRULY feel those thoughts are afraid to express them. I can personally say that I don't actually want to kill myself, but I have wished to die. Is that suicidal? If I told the average person that I'd probably find myself in the ER on suicide watch. 

I suppose that's what we are here, a virtual support group. 

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9 minutes ago, Herc said:

"There is a discomfort that surrounds grief. It makes even the most well-intentioned people unsure of what to say. And so many of the freshly bereaved end up feeling even more alone."

Meghan O'Rourke

So so true. I think people see how hard grieving is and it scares them. Death makes you think about a lot of things, like what if you died, or what if one of YOUR loved ones died? People deal with this by not thinking about it. Before my girlfriend died, I of course KNEW she could die at any time, but I never thought about it, because, why torment myself? Being around grieving people forces you to think about not only their grief, but also the potential for you yourself to have to experience grief someday. I don't think people are cruel for doing this, I think it's a natural protection mechanism, our way of avoiding painful thoughts we don't actually have to face. For someone who is on the outside, they haven't lost anyone, they don't need to feel grief, but seeing others grieve makes them think about "what would happen if I suddenly lost someone?" That thought is so uncomfortable that people shy away from things that make them think of it. It's almost like anticipatory grief when there's no reason to anticipate it. It's horribly uncomfortable, so people do what they do when something is uncomfortable: they avoid it. Sadly, the rest of the world CAN avoid it, we, the bereaved, are the ones who don't have a choice anymore.

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20 hours ago, fzald said:

I think this forum is still one of the best places though. It might be that none of us are "certified" to handle grief, but we all ARE handling it, we are all experiencing these feelings, and there's no better people to validate how you feel than others who are also feeling the same thing.

So true.  I think it does NOT help to see a regular counselor, unless one is specialized in grief, it can even do more harm that good and at best, is a waste of time and money.  Platitudes we could get from well meaning friends for free.  You're right, someone has to have gone through it to fully get it.  Most grief counselors HAVE gone through loss, that's why they chose their profession, but at the very least, they are educated in grief, they know what helps, what doesn't help, what to say, what not to, how to direct us, have a collection of articles, etc. at their disposal, know what books to recommend...but somehow, we're doing all that anyway, aren't we.

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I have not been on her in a few days. I've had some bad days, it happens  As we all know it happens. I still have nice engraved wooden plaque that say "Be still and know that I am God" over the place where she went to him. I don't know why it is bothering me.

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I love the fact that is everybody is so supportive. But please lets be honest. sometimes its not true. We are angry or is it just me? I sure hope not. But I hate what happened to my wife. Seems so unfair, why am I still here. sorry I'm in the the dark night of the soul.  She was so much better than me. this I know. But here I stand. Sorry for rambling. She waa the good one, now I'm learning to be her.

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Clifford,

We all try our best to Be supportive, but you are right. All of us are angry. All of us are in immense pain and agony. All of us have one single wish: that our loved ones had not passed. We all wish a miracle existed which could bring them back. Every one of us is suffering and hurting.

We try to be supportive because it's the only way forward. We try to hold each other up when the tides rush in. We are a virtual support group, sort of like an AA group but for a pain that makes withdrawal seem easy. We all have our low days, some of us have mostly low days. We do what we have to but none of us likes it. None of us wants to be here, in this club of sadness. 

But here we are.

Thats why we will never judge or invalidate people's feelings. It's  not fair at all what happened. It never will be fair. It never will be right. We all need to feel sad, depressed, lonely, hurting, empty, hopeless, helpless, like giving up, all of those things. I think I can speak for everyone here when I say nobody is trying to pass off anyones feelings as "OK." Feeling this pain is normal and appropriate given the circumstances, but it's not "OK" in the sense that it isn't right for any of us to have to live this way.

But until science invents resurrection of the dead, we have to live with it. Whether we like it or not. So the only choice we have is to do our best to be here for each other, to hold each other's virtual hands and give virtual hugs and lend  listening "ear." 

Hang in there. It's normal to be sad and hurting. Don't deny any feelings, let them happen and talk to us if you need to.

hugs

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10 hours ago, Clifford said:

I'm in the the dark night of the soul.

Oh I remember that place...I have a book by that title, explains it a bit.  It's hard.  You are in the place where nothing seems to bring comfort, questions but no answers, of course you feel angry!  That is okay, everything you feel is okay, even feeling conflicting feelings at the same time is normal.  You will get through even this, one day at a time.  Take a deep breath...

It's good you're posting here, it helps to let it out, we're all listening...

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I thank you, especially for listening virtually. 

The world breaks everyone, And afterwords, some are strong at the broken places.

Ernest Hemingway

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Clifford,

I know those bad days, I have slowed in my posting as well.  We are allowed to be angry, we are allowed to be distraught, we are allowed to feel anything we want at this time, because there is nothing else for us to do.  I have missed your quotes.  Remember, one moment at a time, we will make it through,

Herc

 

"Persistence is to the character of man as carbon is to steel"

 Napoleon Hill
 

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Clifford, Herc,---Bad days. I've been knowing them well myself.  All we can do is ride them through as well as we can.

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On March 13, 2017 at 0:34 PM, KayC said:

Oh I remember that place...I have a book by that title, explains it a bit.  It's hard.  You are in the place where nothing seems to bring comfort, questions but no answers, of course you feel angry!  That is okay, everything you feel is okay, even feeling conflicting feelings at the same time is normal.  You will get through even this, one day at a time.  Take a deep breath...

It's good you're posting here, it helps to let it out, we're all listening...

KayC, 

I will find that book and check it out. It's a fitting expression sometimes. 

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On March 13, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Herc said:

Clifford,

I know those bad days, I have slowed in my posting as well.  We are allowed to be angry, we are allowed to be distraught, we are allowed to feel anything we want at this time, because there is nothing else for us to do.  I have missed your quotes.  Remember, one moment at a time, we will make it through,

Herc

 

"Persistence is to the character of man as carbon is to steel"

 Napoleon Hill
 

Hercules, I agree that we can never give up. And I do love quotes. One for every thought under the sun I think, I try to read at least one everyday. Some may not agree with this one, but I believe it to be true. 

The time you feel lonely is the time you most need to be by yourself 

Douglas Coupland

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Clifford, Dark Night of the Soul was 16th century St. John of the Cross, an excellent book.  I studied many of the mystics and the early forefathers of church history, this one was one included, I learned a lot from it, I can relate.

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