Beginning to resolve guilt, maybe

[Mrs. Plummer]

My dear fellow bereaved,

I want to apologise for multiple posts today, and this one is lengthy.

I feel like I did some really deep grief work on my own this morning, from 5.30 am on.... lots of shrieking, gulping tears, but they feel productive... I do thank anybody who is able, for listening.

Like many grieving people, I have guilt issues about things I feel I should/should not have done. I have begun to move past being rough on the Louise who was with Ken in the last few hours of his life....I see that she was utterly frightened, heartbroken and sleep-deprived, but she still did the best she could. I can hold her instead of criticizing her... I can see that woman, fluttering around Ken's hospital bed in her pink caftan with tears pouring down her face. She does not deserve to have anymore hurt piled on her.

A dreadful welter of guilt has been with me based on the fact that my Ken had some symptoms as early as June 2015 - I remember him speaking of repeated nausea and bowel issues. I put them down to older man issues, and the fact that he was getting thoroughly bloody tired of working his ass off on trucks. And the thing is, the symptoms did tend to come and go. But - and here's the catch - I was, as early as then, utterly terrified in the back of my mind. I am a catastrophizer, and I did think as early as then, "What if it's cancer?"

And I did not make him a doctor's appointment. Could Ken have made an appointment? Yes, but our relationship was like many peoples', where wives make the appointments and insist that they are attended. Ken also did things for me that I could/should have done myself. Interdependency and all that.

But by this time last year, I was seriously worried out of my mind. I could see his weight-loss, and the issues I've referred to above had worsened and were chronic. I finally took him last Feb to a doctor who sent him for a battery of blood-tests, which were all clear and he was prescribed laxatives. They didn't work though, and CT scans two weeks after this revealed the tumour.

And here's the thing that has just occurred to me: Would it have been desirable if he'd got to a doctor earlier? Unquestionably. But if blood tests in Feb 2016 picked nothing up, how the hell would blood tests in June 2015 have been any different? Because the symptoms were only intermittent, perhaps laxatives would have worked for a time.

I have had the most horrendous burden of feelings that ultimately, my cowardice - not getting him to a doctor sooner - killed my sweetheart. I've felt like I'm the one who doesn't deserve to live. But there is nobody to blame here - not the doctors, and...not Louise either... I'm now going to do my best to stick up for her when that guilt tries to savage her. She's been through hell; it can **** right off. and stop kicking me when I'm down. Ken's death is a horrible tragedy. It's that simple.

Oh, it hurts so, so much that I thought my darling would live, and then he was gone less than 4 months after surgery   But I'm beginning to understand why...

While Ken was ill, I was too frightened to do any reading about his type of cancer. In any case, I felt that there was wisdom in not Googling information, because I knew it would only scare me silly. Besides, we had reason to be confident - it had not spread at the stage it was diagnosed, which was a huge positive and doctors were pretty upbeat about the possibility of a cure. But I have since learned that my Ken's cancer - De-differentiated liposarcoma - is often very large by the time it is discovered. It started off as a Well-differentiated liposarcoma, which is a low-grade tumour; the patient is asymptomatic at this stage. It can be hard to detect firstly because people aren't presenting with symptoms, and second, because under a microscope, the cells resemble ordinary fat cells. But then new cells enter, and it becomes a high-grade malignancy.

What effected such a shitty outcome in Ken's case was also the location of the cancer - in his retroperitoneal cavity (abdominal space towards the back). Liposarcomas often appear in the limbs; docs will try treatment and if that's unsuccessful, they amputate - no more cancer. Prognosis does tend to be poorer where it's in the abdominal cavity due to the difficulty in removing every single cell - and size is a factor here; Ken's tumour was massive - it weighed about 8lbs when they removed it and that was AFTER radiotherapy had reduced it substantially.

I regret that it was not discovered while it was low grade, because the 5-year survival rate is 100%. However, where it is abdominal, that drops substantially by the ten year survival rate. If it was discovered while it was well-differentiated before it became de-differentiated, we would certainly have had him for a bit longer. This does hurt, a lot.

But for the first time, today, I feel I've made some inroads into the festering blame that has immeasurably worsened my pain. It is not my fault my beautiful man got cancer. It is not my fault he died of it. It is the fucking cancer's fault, and I intend to answer that by doing things to raise some money for the Australian body that researches sarcomas. What do we want? Liposarcomas discovered while they are still low grade! When do we want it? As soon as possible!

Thankyou for your ears, my friends.  I feel like I've brought some toxic stuff up and out of myself, and confronted it in a beneficial way.

[Emeliza]

I am so glad you are moving past that stage of guilt.  I remember all too well feeling guilt that I didn't save my darling or that I wasn't with him when he passed away.  We had no idea.  But I knew he was worn out that week.  

Like you, the type of heart attack that took him, even if we had him on an operating table when it happened, he still most likely wouldn't have made it.  

I still wish I had been there with him.  I wish our last text messages were a mild argument about one of the kids.  I wish I had hugged him more the night before and I wish I had hung out with him that night instead of running stupid errands.

That being said, it isn't my fault he passed away.  His heart just couldn't take it anymore. 

[KayC]

Louise,

You are very insightful and you've been doing your grief work.  You're dealing head on with the false guilt that hits most of us.  You've worked through it.  And in case it hits you again, these are a couple of articles that helped me with these same feelings:
http://www.griefhealingblog.com/2012/12/grief-and-burden-of-guilt.html
http://www.griefhealingblog.com/2016/03/in-grief-coping-with-moment-of-death.html
The second article is more for those who weren't there at the moment of death. 

My husband had heart trouble.  We didn't realize it but we should have.  He'd been complaining of tightness of chest, ankle hurting, fatigue, and at the end, heartburn.  He'd gone to his doctor, he'd voiced his complaints, the doctor didn't address them.  He'd gone unconscious while driving six months before his death, totaling his car.  His heart surgeon, at the end, told us he'd suffered a major heart attack that killed him, and the airbag going off gave the thrust to his chest that restarted his heart, giving him six more months to live.  But we hadn't known any of that at the time.  He was Diabetic, so we'd thought his going unconscious had something to do with that, but it puzzled him because he usually felt his blood sugar dropping and he hadn't this time.  Plus he'd eaten before starting his drive home.  He'd taken his blood sugar.  Why didn't his doctor put all this together and realize this was all heart symptoms and send him to a cardiologist?  He'd been complaining that last year! 

I talked with my husband and encouraged him to see another doctor.  I told him he could get one near his job (which was 75 miles away from home).  I said to ask his friends the names of their doctors in that area.  But he didn't.  After he died, I blamed myself, I never was a nagging wife, but maybe I should have been.  I'd been vigilant riding herd on him about what he ate because he was Diabetic, why hadn't I realized what was going on in his body with his heart?  His mom had had heart problems, but I'd never known her so I guess it just wasn't in the back of my mind.  But it should have been.  I beat myself up good!  If only...

But "if only" isn't what happened.  If anyone should have caught it, it should have been his doctor.  This happened to several people that had that doctor.  Another lady lost her husband, same month, same reason.  I went to see the doctor.  I made him promise he'd never lose another patient to heart disease without sending them to a cardiologist!  I got a stress test, something George made me promise I'd do on his death bed.  The administrator told me they wish they had me for a walking partner!  At least George didn't need to worry about me dying, although at this point I wished I could.  But it wasn't to be, I was to live on without him, much to my chagrin.

I finally came to realize the truth that we don't know what we don't know.  We act on the information we have at the time.  And we aren't doctors.  That's why we go to doctors, that's why we entrust ourselves into their care!  THEY have the education!  THEY know about the tests!  THEY are supposed to refer them to a specialist when they suspect something, not handle it themselves (or not)!  

Do I wish I'd nagged him harder?  Yes.  But this isn't my guilt to carry.  His doctor has to live with that one.  And the point of guilt isn't to carry the burden around for life and beat ourselves up, it's to learn from it.  Hard lessons, yes, but learn.  That's all we're asked to do, doctors or otherwise.

[KMB]

Louise, Emeliza, and KayC---It has been so unfortunate how we took on the burden of guilt and have had that added to our pain. I went through the same with my husband. If only I had insisted he go back to his cardiologist, maybe the heart attack could have been prevented. But both my husband and I went on the knowledge given to us on the last visit, for congestive heart failure, there is no cure. The cardio doctor came right out and said there was nothing more he could do. Another heart surgery would have ended his life right on the table, which is not where my husband wanted to die. He was taking all the best medications, not consistently though because he didn't like the side effects. I had no control over that and had to accept that he at least was taking some of them. If only I had insisted, despite his unwillingness, he start dialysis sooner. That treatment was in the works for the week following his passing. It would have taken the toxins and excess fluid out of his system and made it easier for his heart. I fought so hard for many years for my husband's heath, kept strong for him and now I'm fighting to stay strong for myself and keep myself from drowning in the pain.

As wives, we took our marriage vows seriously. We took on the responsibilities of monitoring our husband's health, what they liked to eat, etc. We made the appointments and ensured those appointments were kept and over saw medications, etc. Women are naturally nurturing souls and we took care of our husband's to the extent they would allow us, nagging be damned. We took care of them just like children. So, it is natural we took on that burden of guilt when we could not save them. We feel that we should have been able to save them. God gave us our soul mates to love and care for. For me, I felt that I failed my husband and God. I have worked hard at getting over that guilt. This living a life will always work out the way it was meant to, good and bad.

[Jeff In Denver]

Louise, you are feeling a natural reaction.  We all wonder what more we could of done. Please know that you did the best you could with the information that you had at the time.  We can't act on things that we don't know when we didn't know it...  It sounds to me as though you were very, very good to him.

[B7176]

Almost a month since I watched my boyfriend go into cardiac arrest and take his last breath. I blame myself for not pushing him hard enough to go to the doctor. I begged and pleaded but I don't think I did enough. Then on that Thursday he went to ER alone. I should've been there. He needed a CT scan and I knew it. ER sent him home without one and he passed the next day on Friday. So many what if's. I've made so many mistakes. He was diagnosed with a brain cyst but it was too late. I've been researching his condition and the more information I find the more guilt I feel. He could've survived if caught in time. He complained about headaches all the time. I remember hearing him in the bathroom all night vomiting. He told me he thought he had a tumor. I should've pushed harder. He was with me at all my doctor appointments and I missed his ER visit. I try to find comfort in being there during his last moments in the ambulance but I am so broken. This is so hard. Sorry for the rant. God Bless you all.

[KMB]

So sorry, B7176. We all have the tendency to take on the burden of guilt. It goes with the grieving and all the conflicting emotions. It was not your fault. You did the best you could at the time. You had no knowledge what was going to happen when it did.

My husband passed of sudden cardiac arrest due to congestive heart failure. I tried to get him to go to the ER the week before he passed. He didn't want to. The heart attack might have been prevented but for only a short time. He didn't want to die in a hospital. He got what he wished for, going in the comfort of our home. I felt so helpless because nothing could be done to save him. I'm left behind to carry the pain and missing him every second. There is no cure for CHF but I thought we would have a few more years together.

Please let go of the guilt. We have enough on our plates with the grieving, no need to add to it. Prayers to you.

 

[Sadaf Nazim]

I have had guilt too. Guilt about tiny things that I could do differently which would have saved him. Maybe I should have called him that time, so instead of going for a swim he would have chatted with me. Or maybe I should have told him to come to my home (he was insisting to meet me in his last days a lot). Maybe if I would have met him, he wouldn't be present there and he wouldn't die. Maybe. These things made me go crazy. So now I have decided to let go of the guilt. I had no idea of what was coming. I did my best what I could at that time. Besides, no amount of guilt can bring him back. It would only ruin my peace and he would never want that for me.

 

 

[Nads]

I'm right there with you all with the guilt. I feel as though I failed my husband. I should have been more persistent with him when it came to his health. I should have nagged but I didn't. He was always healthy except for minor complaints about acid reflux....only it wasn't that. It was a heart condition we knew nothing about nor ever suspected. I didn't even get home in time to be with him before he died. From the moment our housekeeper called to say he was having chest pains I left work to get to him. I live ten minutes from work and on that day there was a loaded truck in front of me that was driving slowly and I didn't get the opportunity to pass it. I regret every day that I couldn't be there for him. His last words were him asking for me( the housekeeper gave me details). I have to live knowing he needed me and I wasn't there. I'm so sorry baby for not being there when you needed me the most. How am I supposed to ever get pass this guilt?

Now my guilt is compounded by the fact that I feel like I am failing him again. I'm trying to keep his business afloat at least to finish existing projects but it's all falling apart. The bank stopped it's credit facility that they afforded to him, creditors are sending letters threatening legal action and I'm at my wits end. I just don't know what to do anymore. Last night I didn't sleep at all because I was consumed with worry. It continued all day today and got worse by this afternoon. I left the bank in tears and just drove around aimlessly for a while and parked in the carpark of a mall and wept for an hour or so. 

I pray that God will make a way for me to get through this. I need His help because there is no way I could make it through without Him. 

I pray that all of us here will be eventually be freed from our guilt. God bless us all. 

[Emeliza]

The guilt is awful.  I feel guilty that he was alone in his car when the heart attack hit.  I feel guilty that I didn't notice how he was feeling.  I feel guilty that I didn't kiss him good bye before work that day or spend time with him the evening before.  I feel guilty that minutes before he passed we were mildly arguing by text over how to handle something with one of the kids.

I feel guilty of different things we fought about even years ago that all had already been resolved about.  

[Emeliza]

Nads, 

I hope it works out for you.  I will remember to keep your struggles in my prayers.  You have had to deal with way too much.

[KMB]

Nads, So sorry you are dealing with so much. I understand the business end. I had to finish dissolving my husband's business. It is so hard in making decisions yourself. I did a lot of crying over the things I had to do. Wondering in my fogged brain if I was doing things right as my husband would have done. I still can't get over the seemingly unfairness of everything. One minute my husband was there and the next he is gone and I'm left behind to sift through the shattered pieces to put what I can together.

The only advice I can give you is put your shoulders back, grit your teeth and tell yourself you can do this. You can do it for your husband. You will dig deep inside yourself and make your husband proud.

Release the burden of guilt on how your husband passed. We can't go back and change the outcome no matter hard hard we wish to. He would not want you to carry that extra burden on top of everything else you have to handle. Keep praying and God will show you the way.

[KayC]

Every one of us seems to feel the guilt when they die.  I don't know anyone who didn't.  It's something we have to work through and come to terms with.  We will always wish it had a different outcome, wish we could have been there for them even more than we were.  We did our best yet we wish our best was more.  Understand that guilt is non-productive, worse, it's counter-productive.  It's only purpose is in calling attention to something that needs changed, but once we've dealt with that, it serves no good purpose, it shames us, and THAT we need to let go of!  We can't change this, so it's time to let go of guilt and let it move on to someone who still has a chance, for us, we know we loved them with all our hearts and as imperfect a being as we are, we gave our all.  No one can do more than that.  

With my George, he would have never seen need to forgive me, he always understood me, understood everything about me, my intentions, even as flawed as I am.  We were perfect together.

[KayC]

14 hours ago, Nads said:

Last night I didn't sleep at all because I was consumed with worry. It continued all day today and got worse by this afternoon. I left the bank in tears and just drove around aimlessly for a while and parked in the carpark of a mall and wept for an hour or so. 

I pray that God will make a way for me to get through this. I need His help because there is no way I could make it through without Him. 

I pray that all of us here will be eventually be freed from our guilt. God bless us all. 

Nads,

What's the worst thing that could happen?  That you lose the business and have to file bankruptcy and get a job working for someone else?  But then you'd live within those means and not have the headache of trying to make the business work and having little return for so much effort.  Maybe you'd have peace when you came home at night, at least not have the weight of the world on your shoulders.

I've watched someone struggle with this same thing for a year now, she works day and night, it's so hard!  I hope for a good outcome for you with or without the business.  I hope the way for you becomes clear so you know what path to take.  My heart goes out to you.  I wish relief for you, my prayers go out to you today!

[Francine]

KayC

My husband also was diabetic, on dialysis, heart problems, a pacemaker and than a defibrillator.   He saw a cardiologist on a regular basis and because of his many health issues, I made sure all of his appointments were kept.   He had all the test, the medication that would help to keep his heart healthy - you name it - he had it.  He died of a massive heart attack - but how could that be?  He had a defibrillator -  a devise that delivers a dose of electric current (often called a countershock) to the heart.   What happened? What went wrong? 

On 1/23/2017 at 6:40 AM, KayC said:

That's why we go to doctors, that's why we entrust ourselves into their care!  THEY have the education!  THEY know about the tests!  THEY are supposed to refer them to a specialist when they suspect something, not handle it themselves (or not)!  

That's what I figured.  The doctors, with all their education, all their expertise, said my husband needed this defibrillator and if he didn't get it, he would not have been able to get on the kidney doner list.  I put my trust in these expert doctors, and what did I do - I buried my husband.  Don't get me wrong, doctors have their place and people need to see them to stay in the most healthy condition they possibly can but when that inner spirit within you tells you to seek a different opinion or something isn't quite right, listen and act on it.  

Put your trust in God who makes no mistakes.  I know my love's earthly task was complete and God took him home; it not, God would have never taken him.    

[KMB]

Francine, I went through the same things with my husband and his doctors. He had a cardio specialist and I asked about a pacemaker or defibrillator. This doctor was always upfront and honest, took the time and patience to explain things. With CHF, there is no miracle cure. With CHF, at least in my husband's case, one side of the heart increases in size in order to do its particular function. The other part of the heart has to work even harder to compensate and keep up. The heart eventually just quits from overload. No pace maker, etc could fix that. My husband understood this and did his best to accept that eventually he was going to die. It happened sooner than we thought. Before my husband passed, we dealt with 2 friends who also had CHF. They both had pace makers that did not help them. They both spent time in the nursing home and their passings were also of sudden cardiac arrest. My husband knew what we were dealing with. I blocked it out and chose to stay in denial. I was a realist like my husband, but with his health I could not face losing him at some point. Now I have lost him and even though I know where is and is free from suffering, I am suffering. Wish God would take pity on me and take me to.

[Francine]

Ms. Plummer.

 Guilt can literally eat your alive; I'm glad your moving in right direction. I know it will certainly take a huge weight off your chest. 

[Emeliza]

My husband worked in a hospital, on a heart floor mostly.  He knew all about heart issues.  He talked about it all the time.  He has slightly higher blood pressure so he was watching it, but no other signs and he just went.  Major heart attack.  Gone.  He died in the parking lot of the urgent care. 

His doctors and everyone were so surprised.  He was a healthy 41 year old. He was bigger than life.  He had so many plans and dreams and he was the ultimate do-gooder.  

His doctor called and gave condolences and came to the visitation and was in just as much shock.  They worked together and liked each other.  

It is so ironic that he died of something he knew so much about.

[Francine]

KMB

 I appreciate you sharing your story.  We all are suffering from our loss and still feel unbearable pain.   The doctors said, for my Charles,  it was immediate and that he didn't suffer. I thank God for that.  It's so hard to accept the passing of the love of your life but to watch them suffer would, for me, would be devastating.

Emeliza

I'm so sorry - I so feel your pain.   He was so young and I can tell by your post, how much you loved him and still does.  God bless us all and watch over us in this most difficult time in all our lives.  

Ladies, know that you are and will always be in my prayers.  God Bless  

[KMB]

Emeliza, Francine, I'm sorry. I wish I could say or do something for you, me and all of us here, but that is impossible. We are all facing the most horrendous loss and on this journey together and I sincerely hope we all survive with our sanity. I certainly feel adrift in a boat that has no engine or oars floating lost and aimlessly.

[KayC]

13 hours ago, Francine said:

I know my love's earthly task was complete and God took him home; it not, God would have never taken him.

I look at it differently, I feel his early task was with me and I don't see it as complete, I still need him.  I don't see it as God taking him home per sae, but death just randomly happens to people.  I don't look for "reason" in it or explanation, I've had to come to accept what is without trying to overthink it.

[KayC]

12 hours ago, KMB said:

even though I know where is and is free from suffering, I am suffering. Wish God would take pity on me and take me to.

I hear you.  That's why I can't view it as God singling out certain people to put through this hell.
 

Emeliza, 

41.  That seems way too young to die from a heart attack.  51 seemed too young to me!  I'm sorry...

[Francine]

KayC

2 hours ago, KayC said:

I feel his early task was with me and I don't see it as complete, I still need him.

I so believe your statement and feel exactly the same.  I don't know your religious beliefs, but as Christians, we believe that there is a time and place for everything above and below the heavens.  

Proverbs 16:9 states "We can make our plans but the Lord will determine our steps".    

John 14:3 says "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be wiih me that you also may be where I am." And

Isaiah 55:8-9 reads, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,"  As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.

I pray that you know that God is in control of our lives and will bring us through this unimaginable pain.   God Bless 

[Francine]

KayC

2 hours ago, KayC said:

41.  That seems way too young to die from a heart attack.  51 seemed too young to me!  I'm sorry...

64 seemed to young for me.   Death has no number - any age is to young.  

I thank God for this website and am eager to visit it daily just to see who and what is being posted.  Total strangers sharing their stories with total strangers - comforting them, uplifting them, encouraging them - that's simply amazing.  I pray that all of us experience the healing power of God, and  know, as surely as I know for myself, that God will heal our minds as well as our spirits.  No healing challenge is too great for God and I know that HIS healing power is moving through our hearts right now.   All we need do is open our hearts and let it in. 

One other thing - I was looking for a bible verse that I couldn't quite remember and ask God's help to find it - I thought this verse could possibly give a little comfort to someone.   With the bible in my hand, I opened it to the exact verse I wanted to share.  God is here blessing us all.

 

 

[Emeliza]

There are many variety of Christians.  Some believe in predestination and others do not.  I personally don't.  I believe in being foreordained, but still think we have choice in our lives, including to reject things we have been foreordained for.  

So while I fully believe my husband had a mission in this life and the life to come, I do not believe his mission on earth was over or he had fulfilled it due to a predestined date God selected. 

I think we all need to be careful on this board a bit about how our religious tendencies and views come off so that we do not stomp on others. 

We most likely have agnostics, atheists, Christian, Wiccan, spiritual---not religious, Muslim, Hindu and other members on this board.  

I am sure I have crossed lines in this respect as well since my religious feelings are a main part of my life, but I hope I do not disregard anyone else's feelings or thoughts.

[Francine]

I agree, there are many types of religions  visiting this website and not to say anyone is better than the other.   Our beliefs are merely our beliefs that we hold dear to our hearts and I think, without being indifferent to anyone or stomping on anyone, we need to express them.  I think people in general know that we come to this website to uplift and inspire one another and  I think by expressing our true beliefs, we hopefully, get through our grieving process quickly.

[KMB]

It is OK, Emeliza. Whatever our beliefs or none beliefs are, we are on this journey together.

[KayC]

I became a Christian when I was a teenager.  I have been studying the Bible all of my life.  I believe God KNOWS what's going to happen, not that He CAUSES everything to happen.  When sin entered the world through Satan, He gave over the reins to him for a time, but He will call a halt to that time and Satan's rule is with some limitations.  Why there aren't more limitations, I don't know.  I only know that sin has thrown everything off, what was perfect is no longer...but it will be made right someday.  That is an oversimplified summation of how I've come to view it.  All of us wonder why God didn't choose to intervene in their deaths.  We experience anger at His seeming lack of compassion towards us.  But eventually we accept that there's a whole lot we don't know and some of it is just plain old bodies giving out, they aren't going to last forever.  When my little sister's baby was born early and without a brain, I had a hard time with that one.  The doctor said the natural process normally is that such a fetus aborts (miscarries) but because my little sister had taken such extraordinary care with herself that the baby didn't die, she lived.  She did eventually die just before her second birthday.

I don't claim to understand everything that happens in this world.  Why babies starve to death.  Why rapes occur.  Why young people die.  No answers.  I see it all as rather random.  I don't see a powerful being calling all the shots like in the Wizard of Oz.  I see Him as benevolent, caring, going through it with us.  Why does He go through it with us, why does He carry us through it, rather than calling a halt to it in the first place?  I don't know.  But I know Him.  And I know it's not because He doesn't care.  I think of my pea-sized brain and my limited knowledge and perspective.  I look at not only this universe but the many universes beyond.  How intricate is our DNA that if laid out would stretch around the world many times!  That speaks to me of a creator whose intelligence is so vast I cannot comprehend it!  He planned this world, He created us, He knows us, and yes He knew all of this was going to happen.  I do believe the way was set in place for me to meet George.  I do not believe all is happenstance.  But neither do I think HE controls everything!  He could.  But He doesn't.  He gives us free reign, free power of choice.  We have control over our lives to so much degree, what we eat, how we live, the decisions we make all affect our outcome.  But so does our genetic disposition come into play.  One person eats bacon every day until they're 100 and is healthy.  Another person eats organic vegetables and dies at 40.  But maybe the 100 year old could have lived to 110 without the bacon.  Maybe the 40 year old would have died at 30 without their healthy choices.  And maybe not.  Maybe the 100 year old lived that long because they were happy in their choices.  Honestly, I don't think mankind knows even with all their studies, there's so many factors.

I stated all this because someone expressed wondering at my beliefs.  There you have it...I realize and acknowledge we don't all believe the same, and that's okay, we all have our own ideas and beliefs, our own experiences that shape and mold us.  No one here is telling anyone else what to believe.  We're all respectful and caring.  I embrace all of you just as you are.  We're all in this together.

 

 

[KMB]

KayC---Thank you for sharing. We are all hurting individuals going through the same horrendous, lonely ordeal together.  Whatever our beliefs, our grieving is the common denominator.

[Francine]

KayC

I thank you for sending your post.  I was always excited about visiting this website - it amazed me how total strangers of different origins, beliefs and religious backgrounds could come together and lifted one another up with comforting words, articles and scriptures.   I was so excited, I told my doctor, priest, and grief counselor about this website and how good (I thought) it was for me.  I visited other websites before selecting this one - and didn't like some of the postings and knew that was a  place I did not want to be.

I was beginning to think twice about this website but after reading your post, (eloquently written) my feelings have changed. I believe our differences are what makes us unique. With all our beliefs and/or disbeliefs, we can agree to disagree but still be uplifting - and that's the way it outta be.   None of us know or have all the answers, nor should  we claim to.   If I could give anyone who is hurting something that just might make them feel better within themselves, take pause and smile, and/or  say thank you, your words meant a lot to me, -  than its' worth it - I helped someone along the way - I've done my job - and I feel so good

Again, thank for your post - just as you said, we are all in this together and I pray for all of us.  

 

[Mandipants84]

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017 at 7:03 PM, B7176 said:

Almost a month since I watched my boyfriend go into cardiac arrest and take his last breath. I blame myself for not pushing him hard enough to go to the doctor. I begged and pleaded but I don't think I did enough. Then on that Thursday he went to ER alone. I should've been there. He needed a CT scan and I knew it. ER sent him home without one and he passed the next day on Friday. So many what if's. I've made so many mistakes. He was diagnosed with a brain cyst but it was too late. I've been researching his condition and the more information I find the more guilt I feel. He could've survived if caught in time. He complained about headaches all the time. I remember hearing him in the bathroom all night vomiting. He told me he thought he had a tumor. I should've pushed harder. He was with me at all my doctor appointments and I missed his ER visit. I try to find comfort in being there during his last moments in the ambulance but I am so broken. This is so hard. Sorry for the rant. God Bless you all.

I'm so sorry.  I understand the guilt.  I got the flu then my bf did and I tried to get him to go to the doctor and he refused.  I found him dead 3 days after getting sick.  I feel so guilty.  I got him sick,  I didn't make him go,  I didn't find him sooner.  It was only 2 hours since we has spoke. They say it gets better

[Mrs. Plummer]

On 26/01/2017 at 10:35 PM, KayC said:

I look at it differently, I feel his early task was with me and I don't see it as complete, I still need him.  I don't see it as God taking him home per sae, but death just randomly happens to people.  I don't look for "reason" in it or explanation, I've had to come to accept what is without trying to overthink it.

I agree, Kay - rotten things happen for no reason at all sometimes. I don't believe it was Ken's "fate" to suffer in this way, and I'm sure a loving God has nothing to do with the foulness of cancer.

[fzald]

3 hours ago, Mrs. Plummer said:

I agree, Kay - rotten things happen for no reason at all sometimes. I don't believe it was Ken's "fate" to suffer in this way, and I'm sure a loving God has nothing to do with the foulness of cancer.

What I find comforting to believe spiritually is that God (or whatever deity) does not have direct control over every single life on Earth. God did not choose to end my girlfriend's life. He did not mark her with a number and a date and time. He didn't "need her more than we do". These things just make God seem either selfish or indifferent.

I find it a lot more comforting to think of God as a protector, someone to watch over the souls of those we lose, and to help guide them in the next world. People pass on for all sorts of reasons, but I don't believe "the will of God" is a fair reason. Like I said, to me God does not murder people. Instead, I like to believe that God mourns the loss of great people from the Earth as much as we do. God weeps for the grief we must go through when a great person dies, especially someone who was nothing but helpful, cheerful and happy in life.

But God can also guide these great souls in the next world, protect them, and prepare them - and us - for the day when we will be reunited in that next world. God, to me, represents a force of love and good, a deity who would never willfully take people from this world, but will receive them, care for them, and love them while they wait for us to join them in the next life. I see no point in assuming that God would ever inflict the kind of pain that we are suffering on us intentionally. 

[KayC]

Me too, I think of Him as a caring entity...not someone controlling us or controlling events, but being there, supportive, enlightening.

[ModHerc]

On 1/26/2017 at 10:08 AM, Emeliza said:

I think we all need to be careful on this board a bit about how our religious tendencies and views come off so that we do not stomp on others. 

We most likely have agnostics, atheists, Christian, Wiccan, spiritual---not religious, Muslim, Hindu and other members on this board.  

Speaking as an agnostic I can say I don't feel for a second that I have been stomped on.  I try to look at the overall message.  Everyone here is coming from a place of love, and we are all trying to help one another, and find what comfort we can.  I can appreciate the thought behind someone's prayers, or quotes of bible verses, without having to share that persons exact beliefs.  I do try my best to make sure none of what I say could offend someones belief structure, so your point is well taken.  I actually think it is incredibly helpful to have so many varied points of view, expressed in such a caring way.  It opens us as a group up to thoughts and methods of coping that we may not otherwise have encountered.

Mrs. Plumber,

Your breakthrough with your feelings of guilt helped me greatly.  I dealt with my wife's health issues for a long time.  I spent many nights at hospitals, sleeping in chairs, or in nearby waiting rooms on couches for 12 years, through a transplant rejection, a second kidney transplant procedure, a quadruple bypass, an amputation, and several other serious conditions like repeated visits for pneumonia or suspected rejection episodes.  I found her collapsed on our floor at home with low blood sugars many times.  I can say without doubt that I directly saved her life on several of those occasions.

And still I wasn't there with her when she went.  She had mentioned she wasn't feeling well several times within the past week, and we had gone to the doctor.  I should have pursued it more at the doctors office.  I should have seen the signs from the previous heart attacks she had.  I should have been there with her at her last moment, even if I couldn't save her, to at least give her comfort as she passed.  But you are so right when you say we shouldn't pile any more hurt on ourselves.  We all did everything within our power, abilities, knowledge and perception of the situation to help our loved one.  The road we must now walk is difficult enough without handicapping ourselves with the additional burden of guilt.  I will still need to come to that point on my own fully, but you have put the idea in my head, so thank you.  Congratulations on your progress.

[KayC]

I appreciate your response Herc.   All religions and views ARE welcome here, and I think as long as no one is shoving THEIR point of view or belief down someone else's throat or being disrespectful of other's viewpoints, we can be accepting of each other and our differences.  We're all just trying to get through this together the best way we know how.  It's true, we do take each other's intent with the spirit with which it was given.

 

 

[Mrs. Plummer]

Herc, I'm glad my post was useful to you. I'm so sorry about the loss of your sweetheart, and it sounds like you were the most loving partner within the bounds of your humanity xo