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Grief & Healing from a Christian-Biblical Worldview


4everjoeysmom

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4everjoeysmom

Oneta,  I saw the trailor for Prince Caspian too when I went to see I Am Legend with my son Patrick on Christmas night.  Looks great, and hope to get it here on video soon after it opens in the States.  I love the CS Lewis Narnia classics.

I am having a really tough time lately relating to my husband.  Seems we are at each other often, and I just don't know what this stronghold is stemming from... but its so divisive.  I was really disappointed that he did not make much effort to keep up with things while I was in the States for 7 weeks.  I came home to a couple of weeks of really hard work just to get things in shape for visitors.  He had gone to the States four times without me in the past 18 months, and I stayed behind, depressed, but managed to be productive by painting our apartment, keeping things very clean, and at the time managing repeat issues with the one employee we had.  My husband cut grass some, but did none of the things he said he would do while I was away.  One of his dogs got loose and killed one of my goats, which was a drag.  I have two small dogs.  I came back and one was matted with maybe 100 small matts, and they both looked scroungy.  After losing Joey, I couldn't imagine letting things like this get to me, but I guess I am evolving back into a state of not liking the immediate world around me, ie. my home to be in such disarray.  I think I am harboring some bent feelings because I feel like it speaks to poor stewardship and doesn't say much for respect for me by allowing me to be welcomed home to such a mess.  The excuse was he got depressed...  (sigh)  I think I am waiting for him to be the stronger one so that maybe just once I can feel like if I want to fall apart for a day or two everything around me won't cave in as a result.  I don't know actually if its strength so much as just caring more about the things that matter to me more often.  Here I am!!  I am supposed to be setting the examples for godly living, and today I just feel so discouraged.  I guess the least of what I am seeking is prayer.  I don't know any refuge other than crying out and hoping the Lord will answer.  But today I feel so at the point of breaking...it's the same lesson over and over again...  take it to God and ask Him to change me instead of waiting for my spouse to change.  Ugh!  So frustrating!!  I realize there are still circumstances of grief that make it easier for me to sink into a pit of emotional chaos.  I think that's where I am right now.  We had such a great morning and early afternoon being really involved with others.  But then after everything settled, maybe I just got tired after all of the running around and not sleeping well for a week.  I have a small dog in heat right now and the male is acting like a nut which is stressful.  I think in that, I just got grumpy and vocal and unreasonable.  Any time I need to rest though, I worry about what still needs to be done while he seems to relax without a second thought.  Sometimes it drives me insane.  Has anyone been there with me?  I need to go and pray about it for a while, I think, and certainly repent to God and my husband.  But I am sgtrong willed at times and often knowing I need to do that makes me even more upset.  I sometimes just get so tired of being the one that cares most about setting the example...  (sigh)..........  (double sigh)  I guess I'm only human after all.  :)   Just ranting....and knowing that some of you will lift me in prayer.  I guess I was having an emotionally charged bad day and didn't realize it until the fuse blew at home......  Sorry for ranting...   and thanks for listening.  I needed to get that out into the light...  Bless you all, and hope your night goes better than mine has been...  Hugs, Claudia

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Claudia,

Could you give me some more information?  When were you in the states?  I'm confused in when you were there.  I know you just hosted the people this past week.  I also am not clear on when your son died.  If you could just quick catch me up to speed... 

It is clear that you are under a very heavy burden (both of you).  You are on the front lines, spiritually speaking.  I would say you are experiencing greater than normal spiritual attack.  Of course, you are also emotionally wrung out just by having people all last week.  But I'm unclear as to when you came home and found everything like you describe and your husband depressed.  If you could just clear me up on things.  I will, of course, pray for you.  ~Oneta

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4everjoeysmom

Oneta, I think I would have to write a book on the history... 

I was in the States from November 7 through December 26 so that I could spend Thanksgiving and Christmas with my family.  It was my first trip to my hometown and to be with my family since I went back for my son's memorial.  He died July 31st, 2006.  I had been on the mission field just three months, having arrived in Ecuador on May 7th.  I had been having some adaptation challenges to a new culture, not really knowing the language, and the shock of realizing in action the personal freedoms I had surrendered.  I don’t drive here, and we live in a fairly secluded section of land that is 2 km off the main road, but our personal road is very rough.  The terrain and grade of altitude makes riding a bicycle in our specific area nearly impossible.  There is no more going out, taking a drive, hanging out with a friend, going to a movie or shopping, or any of that when I need a break to get away for whatever reason.  For the most part I have done well adjusting to all of this over the past almost 21 months.  But I have had very real emotional struggles in the isolation at times, and I am certain my loss and grief have played into that as well.  On the flip side, the isolation has allowed me to deeply grieve in the earlier stages without having to "put on a face" or go somewhere.  It's been a real mixed bag.  I was in the States for two weeks, with my husband, for Joey's memorial and the things I needed to do there at the time.  It is the only time we have traveled together since.  Having the huge responsibility of being the only stewards and caretakers of this place, we cannot be gone at the same time for more than a week or two at the most.  We are not able to trust anyone else at that level currently, so it makes it more difficult.  Michael has made trips back to the States three times since I first arrived in Ecuador--twice for a stretch of two weeks each, and the last time this past September for a month.  It was hard for me to be here alone.  I had enough food and such to get through, and I did work around here to stay busy.  But it was difficult nonetheless being here by myself.  It's a big place and very lonely after a while, especially since it really hasn't been that long to adapt to all of my major life changes.  It's a work in progress, although I feel we're making amazing strides--Thanks to God.

When Joey died my husband was an amazing strength.  He was there for me, and for Joey's friends and family.  He gave the sermon at the memorial at the request of Joey's dad, and it was a painful honor for him.  He has shared great pain with me.  He says often it is not easy having a grieving wife, and I do believe that.

Before we took on this mission, my husband had become softer, and more responsible as a father and husband than he had been when we first married.  We married after a whirlwind of 5 weeks, not really knowing each other very well, but feeling it was blessed by God.  Needless to say, two almost-40 adults coming together with previous marriages and children have a lot of baggage to bring to the party.  After a few months of marriage my husband lost his job, and for several months looked while drawing unemployment.  That was an emotional strain for him and difficult for me as well.  And after a while of his children coming every other weekend I began to notice some patterns that I wasn’t very keen on, like my husband staying up too late on the computer during the night (as he was used to that routine before we married) and napping for a few hours while the kids were with him only a short time for visits.  After a while of “coaching” him, he changed his habits and there was a noticeable difference in the way the kids felt about their time with him---they were happier, and more open, and they loved how attentive their dad was becoming.  He essentially became a much better dad over time.  But there were still issues of trust and responsibility in the marriage that I felt he was not meeting.  There were matters of stability or financial security that I would just stumble upon by accident and it would crumble my trust.  I won’t go into detail, but I think all women want to feel secure and cared for, and I am no different.  There was a time of about a year and a half where Michael had to faithfully wait on the Lord for work and provision—a true test, and I think we faired well through that time.  I tried to be very patient and supportive as well.  I had been unmarried and independent for many years, but regardless, I wanted to feel like I could depend on the man who is supposed to take care of me (not so much financially, but as a strong leader in action, heart and mind)—as he is the Head of the household, the head of the family, the leader…   and I guess this is where the great disconnect comes in.  You see, I want so much to be a Biblical model of the wife who will submit to her husband, honor him, and just be there as a helpmate.  But it is so hard when I feel like if I do submit and let things go his way, he won’t care enough to see things through.  It’s not that he doesn’t care about me.  He just doesn’t care about details at all, and he is the first to admit that.  Have you ever heard of “love language”?  There was a sermon once in our church about speaking the love language of another to show how much you really do love and honor them.  Well, my love language is that I desire good stewardship and order.  I crave it and need to live by it.  If I only gad a shack with a dirt floor, I can see myself still sweeping daily and keeping my dishes clean and presentable for my family and guests.  It’s just the way I am made.  This created my own set of issues to “come around” to in the marriage as well, like the submission and being a little more relaxed with my “rules of order” that had been my way of caring for my household for many, many years.  And it is not easy relaxing from that, I admit.  But after coming here to Ecuador, I didn’t just literally lay down my life to follow God, I also laid down my life to serve my husband, walk alongside him in ministry, and be his caretaker, his helpmate, to keep him healthy and strong, and to help him look good in front of others.  I literally became a full time servant to him and the world—and that speaks a lot to my own submission into humility and my willingness to die to self, because I came from a place in my career and life of being in charge and others literally serving me for some time.  I was never forceful or self righteous about it, but it is a huge life change nonetheless. 

So, back to coming home from the holiday trip to the States…  While I was away, my husband and I wrote e-mail, chatted, and telephoned on a regular basis so that we could be in touch almost daily in one way or another.  Each time I heard how much he missed me, and how lonely and sad he is without me.  I believe that, truly.  And as I had experienced some rather difficult moments during my holiday journey, he was always lifting me up and being the godly husband, offering directive and good advice.  I literally was excited to be coming home to him.  I had made the decision to leave behind some of my “self” that made his life difficult for a time.  I felt stronger, and I wanted to shift my focus back into a mode of motivation and a driven force to tackle the New Year and our growing ministry.  And to a large degree my feelings about that have not changed.  But when I arrived home this place was a wreck.

Taking care of this place out here, in the rainforest, during the rainy season, with more than the average messiness, insects, dirt and crud tracked in on the shoes, algae growth and what have you, it takes a lot of effort to keep up with things and keep it presentable and looking nice for our visitors to experience a good stay.  Being a good host and servant to others and to bless their time here is something that is so very important to me.  It is one of my spiritual gifts—hospitality.  One thing that is crucial, in my humble opinion, is that this place looks clean and inviting all the time, not just before and while visitors are here, because on occasion people wander down here to “check us out”.  Some have come to look on the spur of the moment to decide whether they want to make this a place of retreat for their next group or church outing, etc.  In part this is the ministry’s livelihood.

So, before I left for the States I gave my husband a list of “how to care for my dogs”, which he assured me he would do.  (I had some anxiety about my puppies being without my care anyway.)  And also we talked in depth about projects and things he would do around here.  Sometimes when we would talk he would tell me how hard he was working around here, and I don’t doubt that he put in a few hours here or there at times to do something.  A few days before I came home I suggested he hire some help for a few days to trim brush and such, because I know that is a never ending job here, especially in the rainy season.  But when I got home, the brush was cut and absolutely nothing else had been done.  My dogs were a mess, the apartment floor was filthy, the Meeting Place was a wreck, with garbage literally turned to liquid, stinking and seeping all over the floor.  The floors and tables were a mess, and nothing had been swept inside or out.  It was just filthy to my eyes, and I became so distressed I couldn’t believe it.  I wondered why he didn’t hire someone to clean up before I came home.  I just felt he was so inward focused, and it really knocked me down.  It is when I truly realized that he is so quick to tell me how much he loves me, but he doesn’t really care what “putting the love into action” means for me, because it requires details in and of itself.

There’s another side to this as well.  My husband came and spent three months here before I ever arrived on the scene.  He learned things about the culture, and he had grown used to once again being on his own to do things his way.  He worked very hard.  I give him a lot of respect for what he accomplished.  But after my arrival I had noticed a huge change in his demeanor.  He all of a sudden was extremely guarded about what he would allow me to have say in and such.  He told me to “not go and change everything” after I arrived.  And he was more firm in the way he treated me in front of other people.  In this culture women are more than submissive, but they are subservient and seen as sexual objects as well.  Men have attitudes of being super macho.  And I think my husband has a fear that he will be seen as “cow-towed” if we work more as partners (including me giving some directives) than him being in full charge.  And the truth is that I would love to feel he could be in full charge and things would all be well.  But in reality if he doesn’t care about the details of stewardship and such, shouldn’t that be where I come in and bring balance?  I have qualities about me that compliment where he is weak and vice versa.  Isn’t that what God does?  He brings together unity and balance in marriage and other relationships so that where one is weak the other is strong and so forth??  How is that being cow-toed??  Or is it really a matter of he doesn’t want to do what he doesn’t want to do, bottom line, and my desire and need for things to be organized and cared for distresses him?  Somehow, from the time he arrived here in the beginning with a hard-driven desire to be a good steward over this pace has come to a point has become very relaxed and almost lackadaisical.  And I can’t help feeling that matters of stewardship should be more important to him, especially being in front of so many that are looking to us as the example.  One example of recent that just threw me for a loop, he borrowed some towels from our ministry partner’s home because he had forgotten to pack towels to travel with the dogs—(one of the things I had clearly defined on the list I left for him.)  One of the dogs gets car sick every time we travel, so I keep towels handy to protect the car interior and clean the mess easier.  Anyway, when cleaning up all the mess after I got home, I found the borrowed towels, soiled, damp, and wadded up in the back of one of the lower kitchen cabinets in the Meeting Place.  The only reason I found them was because I was taking care to pack up and store a coffeemaker in that cabinet where nothing else usually is kept.  I was livid at that point.  My friend and ministry partner in Quito is a servant with an incredible gift of hospitality as well, and she cares for their guesthouse in Quito.  I liken her towels to be her tools for ministry—and towels of good quality are really hard to obtain here.  They are very expensive, so most often we ask people to carry them from the States.  I asked him how would he feel if she borrowed his Bible or PDA without asking and then perhaps broke it out of careless and reckless use, leaving it for him to find later.  Something like that would hurt my feelings and challenge my ability to trust my friend.  The things I mentioned are his ministry tools, and so you get the comparison. Whether or be towels or electronics, no matter!  Because, God has gifted us each with spiritual gifts for ministry and the tools to accomplish those callings!  One is just as important and valuable as the other.  So bottom line I felt that he had no degree of respect for me in trashing this place and then leaving the mess for me, nor for my friend for nearly destroying her towels by letting them mold and rot—which by the way we do have a washer and dryer, so that made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever…  I am just SO FRUSTRATED.

So we go to this ministry event yesterday, and like so many times of late, I sit there and have a very proud moment for my husband and the way he is with others.  But at the same time I sit there feeling lonely and wishing that he would or could care about ministering to me and our household in a way that speaks of the same respect and joy he shows for others.  I am beginning to really understand how lonely a minister’s wife can be in this kind of life, because I don’t think I am an isolated case.  I truly do not want to be “lording” over my husband and making demands that he “see more clearly the validity of my feelings and how it is progressing”.  But he believes somewhere within his deep nature that I just want to control him.  I admit I want things to be clean and orderly, so that in being transparent and in front of others we are setting a good example of stewardship, because I feel truly it is imperative.  But isn’t that merely being responsible for what we’ve been given to be stewards over?  I’m just at such a loss………….  And I really do need prayer.  I do believe in part there is spiritual attack happening.  But I think the biggest battle is over our own human nature.  It’s like we are playing tug of war to see who is most willing to “die to himself” in order to truly love and serve the other.  I truly do have the desire to serve him and sacrifice, but not at the expense of becoming slothful and a poor steward.  Why would God call me to be a poor example in front of others with this ministry facility to appease the human nature of my husband not caring about details and cleanliness???  Why?  How in the world can I even begin to climb out of the discouragement I am in???.....  I thought it was enough to have lost a child and be dealing with that in and of itself, but this life of ministry has its own set of daily battles, and sometimes it’s difficult to not want to throw in the towel.  I think that’s a human response with the best of them, but ugh!

Well, that story was longer than I had envisioned writing, and I do apologize for its lengthiness.  Thanks for your prayers, because this is something that has been building slowly over time, and something that out of shame for the whole situation I have kept to myself for far too long.  I’ve tried and tried to share my heart about this with my husband, but he sees it only as manipulative tactics.  I kind of liken it to denial, but I’m at a loss.  And I truly need the power of prayer over this growing stronghold in our marriage.  I know I have issues of my own personal nature to deal with as well, and being in deep grief and mourning for more than a year has not helped matters much.  But I truly am waking and yearning to live a life of ministry in front of others that speaks nothing but the love of Christ.  I know about Mary and Martha, and I do know there are times to be Mary and times to be Martha.  And one day maybe we can afford a worker or two to help with things that for now we have to do ourselves.  But the bottom line is these things have to be done, and if we aren’t willing to work first and set the example, who will follow?

Thanks again, and again, truly, I’m so sorry this is so long.  Others, please forgive me for that.  Perhaps it will open up new discussion amongst us in how grief and loss has changed us and how we live, and the challenges we face now as a result…

Love and Hugs, Claudia

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4everjoeysmom

Oneta, I did, and thank you.  I will respond there as well.  For here, i just want to say that I agree with you in that a position in public ministry does leave us more vulnerable and open to public scrutiny.  It is very difficult at times.  In this "sharing openly", I think sometimes its good to let others see how "human" we really are.  And in the midst of trials, no matter how difficult, we also find hope and healing, which is an awesome testimony to how God works in us and conforms us more and more into the likeness of His Son.  We'll see what comes of the current discussion on the thread, but as well, i would like to privately e-mail from time to time on the more specific issues that you and I may commonly face.  It's so good to have compassion and understanding on that level too.  You're a true blessing!!  Many HUGS, Claudia

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Claudia,

Certainly I agree that it can be good to share openly.  I was mostly thinking that I didn't want to dominate the thread with yours and my personal problems which may at times have more to do with our personal situations in public ministry than our grief.  I'm sure you understand that side of the issue, as well.  I'm happy to share in whatever way you feel comfortable and wise. 

You have so many "layers" a counselor I once saw said about my situation that are not just pertaining to your grief.  I need to read your post several times to give myself an opportunity to really absorb your situation and try to intelligently respond. 

I think you're in a very hard place right now.  You would have enough pressures just acclimating to a new place.  I had culture shock when we moved from Oklahoma to Illinois.  I would hate to think how I would deal with moving to a totally new culture like you have!  Your description of living in the rain forest sounds like enough to drive some people koo-koo.  (I'm not kidding.)  I personally don't like humidity and heat.  We live in Austin, TX where it is very humid and hot, and I don't like the weather here at all except for this time of year.  I had missionary friends who lived in Paupa New Guinea for 20 years, working on writing an alphabet and then translating the NT into a written language for a tribe there.  They talked about the differences in tribal life and American/Western life.  I'm sure you deal with similar differences - maybe not tribal, but just very different from Western life and culture.

Having your son's death happen so close to the time you moved there and were trying to get used to that would have sent many people packing for the States in complete defeat.  I applaud your tenacity in staying there, but you've got many challenges in doing that.  That's why I asked if you had received any counseling since his death.  Most missionaries don't have that opportunity.  It's even harder than for other pastors and Christian leaders to receive ministry when they need it like you do right now.

I'm sure I'll write more after I've had a better chance to re-read your description of your life and your problem.  May His peace enfold you in a special way during this time.  ~Oneta

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4everjoeysmom

Oneta, I've emailed you and do appreciate that we can do that with more of our personal issues not so much pertaining to grief.

I wonder if there are any others out there--to sort of begin a new thought pattern and discussion on this thread for a while--who are having their grief and healing become more complicated by aspects of their lives, vocations, marital relationships, etc??  It seems when personal matters become much more discouraging, that is when I begin to spiral more into the waves of grief and missing Joey--no in the way that he was my counselor or anything.  But the sadness seems to envelop me when i am down about other things.  Is that a common theme?  Is it normal, per se? 

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My thinking is that we can't ever really separate our loss from the rest of our lives.  One thing affects all the others.  I certainly have trouble with that.  For example, our youngest daughter's marriage failed after only two years, leaving her with a 1-year-old.  That was 6 years ago.  We, of course, had to help her through that and help her raise her daughter.  About that time our son in California had a premature baby - by 3 months.  Ethan was born at 26 weeks but hadn't grown since 24 weeks.  At 26 weeks he was at the marginal point of survival.  When he was born his lungs were so underdeveloped he spent three months in NICU.  We were in California when he was born when my brother called from Oklahoma to tell me that my mother had just been diagnosed with cancer.  With treatments she lived 14 months.  I was back and forth from TX to OK during that 14 months at least once every month, most times by myself.  All of these things put me in a really tender place emotionally which all contritubed to the resurfacing of my long repressed grief in regard to my husband's death in 1972.  All of those other stresses were still going on; we were still having to deal with our daughter's broken marriage and help with our granddaughter, help our son and daugher-in-law as much as we could emotionally and financially, be with my mother during her illness when my grief began to resurface.  Meanwhile, my husband has his own unique struggles leading a church which need wifely support, which I could no longer give because I've reached the limit of what I can deal with emotionally.  Each of us were left to pretty much try to just hang on by our fingernails.  So, I guess it's obvious that our losses affect our lives.  How can we separate it?  I've read many places that when you lose someone significant like a child or a husband/spouse, that loss really redefines you.  It maybe doesn't sound good to say we're defined by loss, but I really think that we are.  I know, having had this happen in my life, I can never live my life quite like I did before it happened.  I have this sorrow deep inside me that will never go away.  I know Christians who would feel you're not dealing with it the way Jesus would have us deal with it, but in my opinion those people either haven't had something like this happen or they are in denial or they have an incorrect view of how a Christian should deal with loss.  I can find no place in scripture where we're told to deny our feelings.  I find many places where we're told that we don't have to carry the burden alone or that we are given strength or joy in the midst of our grief, but no place where we are told to live as if it had never happened.  In fact, we are told we will be able to comfort others with the comfort we have received from the Lord.  So, I hope this isn't too long of a reply to your thoughts.  ~Oneta

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Grief affects all aspects of our lives.  I find myself wanting to tune out and spend more time playing video games and even write on grief boards then actually be responsible and be loving and caring to my husband.  He spends alot of time on the computer as well.  It seems to be a kind of escape.  Grief makes us so self absorbed and self centered.  When both partners become self centered it can be really hard on the relationship.  I wish he would want to do things that please me and it seems as if the only things he will do are things that please him.  He thinks that should make me happy as well.  :?   We have very different love languages and it is hard when you think you work hard to meet his needs and he doesn't make the same effort back.  But if you stop trying then you are not meeting God's wishes and requirements of you as a wife and as an ambassador of the Lord. 

 When my husband was severly depressed last spring he stopped washing/left tobacco wads everywhere and basically left dirty dishes and trash all over everywhere. Our house literally stunk.   I just tried to care for the kids and stopped cleaning up after him.  I was depressed myself and just couldn't deal with his mess.  I stopped trying.  After a particulary bad night he came down and screamed at me to get out of the house in front of the kids.  I took the kids and left for the night.  It wasn't good for them to be there.  That night he trashed the house and tried to kill himself.  He would end up spending 3 months in the state hospital.  Then came the most humiliating part.  Our landlord came in without permission when the ambulance was there for my husband and she saw the mess.  She told me we would be evicted if I didn't figure out how to get the house in shape asap. She told me that while the paramedics where trying to save my husband's life.  I was so angry at her but was also trying to be focused on my husband and answering the parmamedic's questions.  I had to have people from the church help clean up the filth and mess.  I was so humiliated.  My pride was crushed.  My weakness was out in the open for everyone to see.  I had to depend on God for my dignity even in my weakness.  My worth is becausing God created me in his image...not because I have a clean house.  I was so embarrased to have church ladies in my house cleaning our mess.   So  I don't know if this helps at all or how it all even relates.  I know that your worth comes from God not on whether or not your house is clean.  It is good to be clean and be a good abassador for the Lord.  But we can only be responsible for ourselves.   I had a choice on whether to let my dh back after he was hospitalized.  I had to think about my kids and myself.  But I also had to think about the Lord.  What does God want me to do.  Let this man with a mental illness back who might slip back into depression and be a bad example for the kids?  I cant control his illness.  I can't make him help me around the house.  I can't change all his flaws.  But I know God wants me to love him with His love even inspite of his weakness just like God and even our church members loved me inspite of my weaknesses.  Jeff (my dh) is doing better but we are both struggling with Joshua's death.  Jeff still doesn't pick up much but isn't leaving tobacco wads laying everywhere at least.  I get frustrated easier since Joshua died.  I struggle to be loving to my husband when he is moody and doesn't help out.  My first allegience is to God and I must try to love my husband like God loves him.  It is hard when I want to be cared for and loved like a wife "should be."  I want my dh to be the husband and father God wants him to be.   He isn't.  He isn't the husband I dreamed of.  But he is my husband and I am his wife.  I can only control myself not him.  I can only ask God for the love I need to be the wife God wants me to be.  I will pray for you, Claudia that God gives you the love you need to be the woman and wife you want to be.  I will pray for understanding on your husband's part of what your needs are and that he will see the value in your work.  May god give you the mercy and love you need dear Claudia to sustain you through your grief and in your ministry.  Sorry this is so long. 

sal

 

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4everjoeysmom

Oneta,  prayers are being heard and answered...  we were able to talk over lunch without too much tension, which was great.  We both know it's going to take work on both ends...

I am so wiped out today...emotionally for the most part, I think.  I feel like going and taking a nap.  The mom in me wants to go huddle in my closet with some of Joey's shirts and things...  (sigh)  I sure wish I could feel him near...  his things are all that's left besides the memories and stretch marks that prove he was here...  I miss him so much...

On the Scriptural referrences and things that we look for there, like your comment on folks expecting us to deny our grief after a time....  I wonder if "taking up our cross daily and dying to ourselves" is part of that perception from the Christian world that has not experienced such a loss?  Hebrews constantly points us to think on an eternal plain rather than worldly, and passages in Luke and other Gospels point to leaving behind the worldly, including "not looking back" after deciding to follow, etc....   And while I can do that and definitely find Hope and joy, living in the world is so hard.  We get to reap blessings here in the form of worldly goods, prosperity, family, and so forth.  But then at times we are called to give them up.  The challenge is to not become attached to things of the world.  But for our beloveds who have come and gone from our lives here, they are eternal beings, and they don't just "go".  They are part of us--then, now and for eternity.  I think that's why we feel so ripped apart, like a piece of us has been taken away....  And for that, it's definitely different than losing something else.  You're right!  It affects our lives, our beings, and everything about us present and future.  It does define what we will become of it and where we are going.  How could it not?

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4everjoeysmom

Sal, a very humble Thank You!  I  really needed to hear that!  Thank you for ministering to my heart.  Blessings and Hugs, Claudia

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I had to start a word document  in order to write back to both of you.  I couldn’t remember everything you had said, much less what I would say back.  Sorry I write at such length.  I don’t talk this way.  If you were to be with me in person, you would see that it takes me a long time to warm up enough to talk much, and in a crowd I hardly ever say anything.

 

Sal, you’re in a really hard place.  You have to deal with the loss of your son and depression in your husband, as well.  How hard that must be!  If he was suicidal it is obvious that he wasn’t functioning as a husband to you or a father to the rest of your children, and unfortunately, that burden will fall on you alone.  I would have been embarrassed to have the ladies from my church to see the mess, too, but you must know that they know you and love you and know “something is rotten in Denmark” for there to be such a mess in your home.  You said a very key thing – “My weakness was out in the open for everyone to see.”  Makes me think of “His strength being made perfect in our weakness”.  I’m sure that there were people who saw you taking care of your husband with everything you had been through and admired you for it.  And it would have been horrible to have to set aside your worries about your landlord to take care of your husband who had just tried to kill himself!  You are not only being a great mom to your living children, but you are being the wife God would want you to be.  It isn’t easy to deal with all the pressures you have at once.   I know that your husband is hurting, too, and this is how he’s dealing with his pain.  You are a real model of depending on the strength of Jesus as you take care of your children and deal with a depressed husband.  We’ll pray right back at ‘cha that God’s grace, mercy and love will be your strength in this time of great testing in your life.

 

Claudia, I’m so glad you were able to have a good talk with Michael!  Definitely I would say an answer to prayer.  I’m sure you’re exhausted, emotionally and physically.  I find that when I’ve gotten physically exhausted, emotional exhaustion is right on its heels.  I also find myself wanting to hide in a closet (or maybe something a little bigger than a closet – maybe a bedroom…) and hugging pictures and momentos to my heart.  After 35 years, there aren’t many momentoes.  Clothes, smells, personal things are all long gone, but we will always have our memories.

 

We can “not look back” in terms of not living in the past which is such a strong pull for me even now at times, but we know that it doesn’t mean forgetting them.  We can never forget them.  Stoicism is so strong in Western culture, so strong even in the Church.  I grew up in a strong German family that believed you just kept putting one foot in front of the other and keep going, and I think they actually did try to “forget”, literally, all that they could.  Of course, you can’t erase the person from your mind, but you can erase all mention of him, all reference to him, etc.  I did that for years and years in regard to both my brother and my husband until I came to a point that I couldn’t do it any longer.  They are NOT forgotten and never will be and never SHOULD be!  I don’t know if that’s what the Church expects, but if it does, it’s wrong.  We’re finding in our own church that other people are suddenly starting to experience loss in their lives.  As we age, we’ll see more and more of that happening.  Maybe we can help start a change in the thinking of the Church and influence those younger than us to not do that with their losses.  We pay too high a price, a price we may never be able to completely pay.  Yes, those we have loved are with us and will be with us, not just for the rest of our lives here on earth, but for Eternity as we spend Eternity with them on the New Earth.  

 

Have either of you read Randy Alcorn’s book, Heaven?  He shatters a lot of ideas we, the Church, as held about Heaven in the past and suggests ideas for what Heaven will be like that really excite me.  Just wondered if you or anyone else reading this has read it.  ~Oneta

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4everjoeysmom

I had never heard of that book, but after reading some online reviews and an interview with the author, I am now very intersted.  I think I'll order it and have someone carry it with th next visiting group.  I am fascinated by heaven AND the New Earth.  I have combed Revelations about it.  I studied Hebrews in depth a couple of years ago as well.  Thanks so much for suggesting the book, Oneta.  And thanks so much for your e-mail.  It is so what I needed right now.  I'll pray about it and respond back soon.  AND you are so right!  Prayer is too important a tool that God has given us--a weapon for our defense and protection, and it's important not to forget the power in prayer...     Prayers for you all and myself as well.  God bless you!  Love and Hugs, Claudia

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It's a GREAT BOOK!  Can't recommend it enough.  Completely changed my thinking about heaven.  I've always wanted to go there, but now I can hardly wait!

Glad anything I said helped.  Will wait to hear from you.  ~Oneta

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loveyoujustin

Dear Claudia,  Just wanted to send you love and prayers.  You have touched my heart and soul, and helped in ways like no other.  My prayers are for you tonite.  With Love,  Trish

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Claudia, Oneta and Sal,

Last night I was reading all of your postings and have only a few minutes to reply.  My heart goes out to all of you in your various struggles.  Claudia, you are under tremendous pressure, being that you are still newly bereaved.   My second son Matt died just before my other's son's two year anniversary, and at that two year mark I was only beginning to acclimate to Phil being gone.  It truly takes a lifetime to grieve a child's loss.  You have gone through huge life changes in the last few years and maybe you haven't had enough curled-up-in-a-ball grieving time(?)  I don't know.  From your chronological description it seems you haven't had much down-time to just stare at the wall, you know?  

When Phil died I only took off a few weeks from work, because I was brand new at the company.  Then when Matt died I took off a month, then went back to work successfully for a few months.  Then I decided I needed more time off and went on disability again for three more months.  It happens that I work for a company that is GREAT to their people.  But I feel that the off time was the minimum that I could get by with.  Some people told me they would have taken off a year when my first son died.   I found that I had different reactions myself in my own activity levels after the two deaths.  After Phil died I was lethargic and had to be directed through several days.  But the very night that Matt died, I had to get up and do the dishes that we had from people coming over to sit up with us.  I had to move and do things in a way that I didn't have to when Phil died.  So go figure -- we need to find varieties of ways to deal with this most tremendous of losses.  It is as if a part of us has been ripped away.  The boys will always be my sons.

Oneta, you are so right that we comfort others with the comfort God has given us.  I have a friend who lost her daughter in a car accident, several years before my first son died, and she's now a Christian grief facilitator.  She says that it's important to work on our grief, find as many ways as we need to remember and memorialize that person we've lost.  I think this could become an idol in itself, so it is important I think to do this grief work in Christ.  Anyway, as we allow God to comfort us I guess that's the only way we will then be able to pass that comfort along.  This whole struggle is just that - a struggle.  But it's downright odd how God can bring positive things out of this pain.  I've seen it happen many times now.

Then we have the subject of denial and how grief has effected all levels of life... I want to write more but have to run off to work.  Know that you are all in my thoughts and prayers today.  Sal, I will write in answer to you as well next posting.

Love in our great Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,

Rody

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4everjoeysmom

Trish, HUGS, and Thank You!  How is your journey going right now?  You are very new to this still, and as I think of you so very often, I also pray for you...

Rody, a big AMEN to making certain we are doing our grief work "in Christ"!  I could see very personally from my first year of grieving how very much the memorializing can turn into an idol itself if we aren't careful.  I could have very easily made Joey an idol of worship to a degree if I had not been open the Lord's teaching along the way.  I am grateful for His wisdom, mercy and grace as I continue this journey, because frankly, I have no idea how I could survive this great loss and pain without our Lord.

Well, as has been happening a lot lately, I've just lost power again.  It's a challenge where I live to keep electricity flowing, running and clean water (from the mountain spring source and 3 km of hose that constantly needs repairs), and telephone service.  Truly I took these most basic of services so much for granted all my life.  Being here has made me realize how precious these services are...  Check back later when power is restored...  Hugs, Claudia 

 

 

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Good morning, everyone.

Trish, I haven't met you yet, but I hope to get acquainted with you soon.

Rody, Good to read your comments.  You are so right that you never know how you're going to be affected by loss, and each one is different.  I also agree wholeheartedly with you that we really need to take time to deal with our losses.  I don't know if you took time off because you knew you needed it or if you were rendered incapable of working because of your grief, but  with all my losses I have always just tried to trudge through like they hadn't happened, which I think now is simply another form of denial.  I didn't see it as denial then, but I guess it was.  It definitely was stoicism; just put your head down and plow ahead.  But I found I was denying the pain, denying the loss, going on like it hadn't happened, maybe pretending it hadn't happened.  But it catches up with you.  When it caught up with me I took time off, too, but involuntarily.  I simply couldn't work.  I could barely get up and brush my own teeth.  You talk about the "curl up in a ball stage" (I think that's how you phrased it...), and that's where I was.  I call it the fetal position.  I had finally taken a blow to the gut, and I was down for the count.  But out of that experience is coming a desire to help other people work through their pain of loss.  I've done counseling with my husband for years, but have never done grief counseling.  I'm getting more and more interested in that as I slowly improve myself. 

I also agree about the comment about making an idol out of your memories.  When my little brother died, my mother made a shrine out of his bedroom.  The old farmhouse burned down in 1980; he had died in '66.  For all of those years, his room looked just like it did when he was alive.  His model airplanes were still set out on display.  Little pictures of his little friends were still stuck in the frame around the mirror on his dresser.  His clothes were still in the closet.  I didn't even like to go upstairs into his room because it was downright spooky!  But my mom would go in there frequently.  No telling what she was doing in there!  I think that's part of why I tried the stoic route.  I saw her attempt at keeping him alive through keeping everything the same in his room and knew that wasn't healthy.  But neither is denying everything.  So there's a balance to it just like there is to everything else in life.  I think when we go to the Lord for our comfort and for our healing, He shows us how to grieve in a way that is not only healthy, but that honors Him. 

Well, I need to get to work, too.  I woke up with a giant migrane this morning, so I'm getting a slow start, but need to quit putting off the inevitable and get to it.  Blessings to all!  ~Oneta

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Hello Everyone, (Rody, Trish, Claudia, Aneta, Patti, and Sal,

I haven't been posting just reading and it helps me! I just want you all to know that I'm praying for each of you. I'm still in the beginnings of my grief just over 3 months now and I it's getting worst. I know the Lord is with me every day. Sometimes I'm afraid I'm not dealing with it like I should. I went back to work just after 6 days, but you all know I was there in body but not in mind.

While I'm reading Oneta's post I just hope I'm not in denial. I know Danielle is gone to heaven with her Lord and Savior and I think about her all the time.

I have not clearned her room yet? I don't know what I'm waiting on. I did go in there everyday I feel closer to her there. I guess I'm just scared that if I'm dealing with it in the proper way what will happen to me next year, 10 years from now.

Claudia,

I'm glad to see you back online after your guest have left and I'm sorry to hear that they wore you out! Take time for yourself and your husband. The message at church on Sunday was about marriage and It's very hard sometimes to know that the head of the house is the husband but the head is really no good without the rest of the body!! That's the wife!!

Patti,

Big Mike's Mom! I've missed your posting and I hope everything is going well for you and your family.

I hope this is not to much off the page, I just really desire the prays of everyone on this link and I will return the prayers I call each of your names in pray each day.

In love and prayers,

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

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Sonya,

Just want to quickly say that just because you have not cleared out her room after three months is NOT a sign you are in denial!  Or back at work, either.  Sometimes we do what we have to do.  If you aren't in a position of being able to take off work, you do it and you get through it in spite of the fact that, as you say, you're just there in body.  We will all pray for strength for you to be able to do that.

My mom didn't ever clear my brother's room out, even after years!  from '66 until '80!  When the house burned down in '80 it was still like it was when he was alive.  THAT'S DENIAL! or something.  After three months you're still getting used to the fact that she's gone.  You might even need to keep some things just to treasure.  When my husband died I got rid of all clothes, personal belongings, everything, and I wish now I had kept some things.  I have only gifts and momentos.  I really wish I had more.  I have one of my dad's shirts and a dress of my mom's, but nothing like that of my husband's.  Don't take what I said about things years after the death to mean that you need to be there after only 3 months.  Just remember... there are no set rules or timelines.  (Obviously, common sense tells you that after 20 years, if you've made a shrine out of her room, there might be something a bit wrong there...)  But take your time to grieve.  Give yourself lots of latitude!  Give yourself lots of grace!  God does!  ~Oneta

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Oneta,

Don't think just because your posting that I think I'm in denial. It's not that it's just that so many people are telling me how well I'm doing. Believe me I think I'm doing well to. I get up every morning shower, go to work, speak to people and eat and I smile, I even laugh. Yes a BIG BIG part of me died when Danielle did but I know her well enough to know that she would have wanted me to live and love life as she did, so that's what I'm planning on doing.

My prayer is that when someone see me smile or laugh that they see the Lord's work in me. That with the Lord we can get through the valleys! Thanks for listening to me.

Sonya

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Sonya,

3 months is a very short time in the long road of grieving.  Sometimes it takes a lot of time before you can start to ponder what to do with your loved one's belongings.   It was a little easier for me because Joshua shared a room with Micah so I can't get stuck making it into a shrine.  I let each of my living children pick something out to keep of Joshua's and we also made a memory box that the kids decorated with stickers that reminded them of their big brother.  Then we lovingly put his belongings in it that remind us the most of him.  Clothes I have passed most of them onto Micah.  He loves to wear Joshua's clothes.  It would be very hard to throw them out but much easier to know Micah is loving them and the memories they have.  Hugs to you,

Sal

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Sonya,  I had started a post and then lost power to my computer, so everything I wrote is now gone.  I think I had mostly just said that only you really knows if you're grieving in a healthy way or not.  There is a definite difference in the way Christians grieve and the way the world grieves.  We do have a peace and a joy in the midst of our grief that they cannot have.  We have the assurance of seeing our loved ones again in Heaven, and that brings such a healing with it.  I'm sure you are an example to those you are around of this difference.  I know that you also miss your daughter more than words can even say.  We all know that very well.  We all feel that loss, that absence ourselves.

Sal, I think you've shown great wisdom in how you've handled your situation.  I wish I had had that kind of wisdom in my situation so many years ago.  The idea of the treasure box is brilliant.

I had more written, but oh, well.  Some other time.  Blessings to all.  ~Oneta

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4everjoeysmom

Sonya,  I agree with the ladies here.  None of us believe you are in denial.  But one very important stage in the journey of loss and grief is "acceptance".  And quite honestly, I was in disbelief for much longer than 3 months.  I think at the 3 month mark, for me, was when the shock actually started to ware away.  Even now sometimes I think of Joey and it seems like a dream, like he didn;t really go.  My challenge in acceptance was that I never got to see Joey after.  I chose not to, because I wanted to remember him fully alive--because he is fully alive now with Jesus.  His death here from this world was merely a temporary death, a passing into his eternal life.  His accident also was a factor in my decision not to see him after.  It was devastating and very violent to his body.  I believe it was God's grace that helped me to make that decision.  But nonetheless, there was a time of acceptance for me, as there is for all of us.  And 3 months is so raw and fresh with a loss.  You have the shock of it all to wade through still.

After Joey's memorial I had only a week and a half to go through all of his things.  His dad didn't want to--just couldn't fathom the idea of doing that chore.  So in just a matter of a few days I went through Absolutely everything.  Joey's brother took his hunting bow and some clothes, and maybe a few other special things as well as the photo collages I made for the memorial.  Joey's friends and gradparents took a few articles, and I left many momentos in a box for his dad, as well as Joey's childhood sports trophies and such.  They are on a shelf in the closet of Joey's old bedroom and will remain there until his dad decides where they should go beyond there.  I carried back to the mission field with me some of Joey's clothes.  I am keeping about a half dozen nice shirts to make a quilt from (sometime in the future), and I am lsowly presenting his clothes to people here in need.  I also kept his first teddy bear and a chapstick that was on his dresser.  I use that chapstick sparingly when I feel I want to send a kiss to him in Heaven.  It may sound weird, but it's my personal way of dealing with not being able to tangibly touch him.  The rest of Joey's belongings (school work from college, old and worn things and such I either took to a distribution ministry or had them burned.  I didn;t have much time to think about any of it, so I did what I had to do.  I don't know if any more time would have seen me do it much differently, quite honestly.  I guess my point in sharing is that you will know when the time is right to deal with all of the momentos and things.  Don't rush yourself by society's standards.

I think each one of us, though we are Christian and believe truly that our loved ones live now with Christ, have a certain fear of "forgetting".  I know I did.  I decided to create a memorial website and on it is a page called Remembering Joey.  There I added comments of memories from his friends, teachers, and others, and I also have a section to interject my memories from his conception to his homegoing.  As I continue to add memories to that page I realized that this has sparked me to think hard and remember things that maybe I would never have thought about again if he were still here.  It's so easy to take for granted little happenings in life and place them far beyond reach in our cavernous memories.  It has made me think about creating a My Memories page for my son patrick who is still here, just to see all of my memories vividly return as I work the page.  I don;t think any of us will ever forget the small details that we fear of forgetting.  I just believe that the fear of forgetting them is one very real step toward the acceptance that they are no longer here in this world.  I don't have that fear anymore, because God is teaching me along the way how very guarded our memories really are, and that they stay with us always.  And perhaps one day if I reach old and gray, and my mind doesn't work as well as it did long ago, I can study my memories pages and mett my children again and again as I live out the years of this life.  Meeting my children for the first time were a couple of the most profound moments in my life.  And to think that I can meet them again and again through my memories, no matter my circumstance, well that profoundness in live with my children at the least can continue to carry me through the years here.  The Lord ultimately carries me.  But He gave me the sweetest gifts in my children.  He did not take my first son and gift from me, really.  He just brought my Joey home into the life that he was created for--the ultimate and eternal fellowship with the Lord.  It is a day in my own life that I cannot wait to achieve.  But while I am yet here, I will choose to cherish my earthly and eternal gifts that are still here--my husband, my son, my family, friends, and precious little things along the way.

Sonya, thank you so much for your sacrificial prayers in this time of great loss and mourning for you.  I say sacrificial, because though you are in the depths of your own pain, you choose to lift us up by name to our Father and Lord.  That is a true giving.  The Lord bless you richly for that!  You are in my prayers too.  Blessings and Hugs, Claudia

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Sonya,  I SO agree with Claudia about the "disbelief" stage which we all go through.  I think that's different from denial.  Denial refuses to believe that it happened at all, while the disbelief stage is just a normal stage we go through that just finds it so hard to believe that it's really true... that we can't just pick up the phone or send an email or see them ever walk through the door again.  Many people stay in that disbelief stage for a very long time, but I think it's different from total denial.  Queen Victoria lived in denial.  For years after her husband's death, she had his clothes laid out every day that in her mind he would wear, a place set for him at meals, etc.  That's denial! (I think it was Victoria.. it was some queen...)

Claudia,  The idea of creating the memorial page is such a good idea.  I have seen that here on BI but hadn't really thought why it would be good.  It really doesn't benefit anyone but the bereaved, and I couldn't think why I would want to do that, but I can see from reading what you wrote that it would be good.  I have had a lot of trouble with not wanting to let him go, that fear of "forgetting" that you talked about.  Mine may be for a different reason than all of yours since my loss was so long ago.  I'm afraid of doing what I did before which was nearly wipe him from my memory banks.  I guess that was just my young way of coping, which I know I would never do now, but it (or something) has created in me a great fear of "forgetting" him again which creates a dread or fear of "letting go of him", and honestly I'm not sure that the way I'm dealing with things now is any more healthy than it was then.  I don't know if any of you can relate to that or not.  Maybe creating the memorial page would help remove some of that fear of forgetting. 

(By the way, I totally understand the chapstick thing...)

~Oneta

 

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Claudie, Sal and Oneta,

Thank you so much for your words of wisdom and the prayers.

I also keep some of Danielle's lip balm that she had and have used it a couple of times but not many.

Danielle and I worked at the same restaurant just on the weekends and I went back on Friday I wore her apron and used the pen that was still in the pocket. That was very hard because all of the customers knew us both we were the "Wrenn" girls!! Running all around laughing and playing with all the customers. But I'm going to try and go back this Friday and maybe it will be a little easier this week. That was Danielle job because she was in school and I was working there just for the fun of it meeting new people and having fun plus for some extra money to help with school.

Also I have two other children James (18) a senior in high school and Mattie (5) she was the apple of Danielle's eye. They loved each other so much, she talks about Danielle a lot.

Claudia,

I visited your Joey's site and I feel like I know him now and maybe our children are up there and seeing that we are here on this site, because it is helping me.

Thanks again for everything!!

Sonya

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 Hi, all.  I got this email from another friend of mine that I met here on BI.  It is SO CUTE! I just had to pass it on to you.  ~Oneta

A nurse on the pediatric ward, before listening to the little ones chests, would plug the stethoscope into their ears and let them listen to their own hearts. Their eyes would always light up with awe, but she never got a response equal to four-year old David's comment. Gently she tucked the stethoscope into his ears and placed the disk over his heart. "Listen!" she said "...What do you suppose that is?"

 

He drew his eyebrows together in a puzzled line and looked up as if lost in the mystery of the strange tap - tap - tapping deep in his chest. Then his face broke out in a wondrous grin and he asked, "Is that Jesus knocking?"  

 

[align=center]GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3d3f4f8814-da17-4a13-8cb7-43d9c1264d73.jpg%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26name%3dQVRUMTEuanBn%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empty%3dFalse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253a000701c85d16%25244bcb56a0%25242c60edd1%2540Pats&oneredir=1&ip=10.1.106.217&d=d1209&mf=0[/align]

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Claudia,

I tried to find Joey's site, but couldn't.  Can you help me out?  Any of you others that have created memorials for your children, I would also like to visit them if you would tell me who they are and how to find them...  ~Oneta

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4everjoeysmom

Joey's site is here:

http://joey-mcconkey.virtual-memorials.com/

I had Joey just before I turned 19.  He was the product of a relationship with my first love.  We never married.  I met Joey's "dad" when Joey was just an infant.  He loved my baby as much if not more than he loved me.  We married, and Joey's brother Patrick came very soon after.  Unfortunately I was not a Christian then, made a lot of bad choices, and the marriage failed after 3 years.  But there was never a single moment that Joey's daddy ever thought of him any less his child than was his little brother.  We were both so blessed to receive that kind of love.  Joey's dad was not a Christian then either, but he prayed to receive the Lord, as did Joey's brother, within a week after Joey went home to be with Jesus.  It was the most precious gift and blessing wecould have ever received in answer to prayer that God use our loss in a way to bring glory to Himself.  Those prayers, to this day, continue to be answered...

I don't know why I picked this moment to share that.  I guess I want to give great encouragement that none of our losses are to be in vain.  When we look for how God will be glorified, it shall be seen.  And in this is where my healing began, even before I realized I was healing.  In the love of Christ to all, Claudia

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Claudia,

Thank you SO MUCH for sharing that story.  It is a beautiful story.  It shows the love and forgiveness and mercy of Jesus splendidly.

My oldest daughter is sort of like Joey.  Her dad who helped me create her is my husband who is in heaven now with Joey.  She was an embryo about 8 weeks old when he went to be with Jesus.  My husband, Jack, adopted her as an infant and has loved her all of her life just like his own two biological children.  Just thought I'd share that.  See, we have many similarities.  ~Oneta

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Oneta,

The site I put up in memory of Joshua started mostly about him but has alot of stuff about my whole family not just my sweet Joshua.  If you go back to August and September when we started it you will find posts mostly about Joshua and his death and my feelings, etc.  Now I try to post occasionally about Josh and occasionally about our family and l/c. 

www.heyerhaven.blogspot.com

 

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Sal,  I paged through your memorial and cried at some of the things you put there, especially the "things parents would like others to know" or something like that -- I hope you know which one I mean -- the list of things parents who have lost children wish others understood.  I also cried at the scripture you included about the raising of Lazarus and the poem after it that I assume you wrote.  Such a sweet little boy!  I know you miss him tremendously!  Thanks for allowing me to see him.  ~Oneta

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Wow guys - I just found this forum. I want to be a part of it please!

I have been looking for a place to talk honestly about my faith and how it is affected by tragedy! Claudia, I have so missed your wise counsel.Have you been hiding out on here?

My Jamie suddenly went to be with God 16 months ago as the result of a road accident.He was just 17.I love him and miss him so.I still struggle to comprehend that he has gone. He was a committed Christian too and had so much to do here for God.He was so talented and such a gentle kind lad.

So hard to know he has gone.Heaven seems so far away.

Love Anne

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4everjoeysmom

Hi Anne,  I'm REALLY glad you found this thread.  I haven't actually been hiding out here, but I did begin the thread and visit very regularly, because so much of what I share and need to hear from others is faith-based from a very specific Christian/Biblical perspective.  I know a lot of people on other threads miss seeing me there, and I miss them too.  But I had to be sensitive to others who don't necessarily miss my commentary because their faith or worldview is very different from ours here and I need to respect that instead of pursuing openly in offense to others where it isn't always welcomed.  I hope that makes sense.  My objective is not to segregate myself, because I want to and still do share from time to time on other threads.  But I want to be able to have the freedom of openness and journey through grief and healing in an environment that SUPPORTS AND FEEDS my faith, and this is a good start.  Hope that makes sense...

It's a rainy day here (surprise!  I'm in the rainforest.) and my husband is on an overnighter to the city, running errands, paying bills and such.  So I decided to curl up for a while and watch a film--Copying Beethoven.  It was really well done.  There were a few lines that sparked my attention, about God and how he speaks to us through nature, music, and various other ways.  But one line in particular when a young woman was sort of cursing God for giving her a gift and not allowing her to use it (in the way she had envisioned) was followed by a very short comment by her audience.  The Mother Superior said to her, "God gave you this gift.  Use it to serve Him!"  I had to pause the film for a few moments and contemplate the gifts God has given me and how I am using them--whether I am serving His glory with all of those gifts or not.  And I couldn't help but think of Joey.  SO, I guess this is where I begin to reflect on all of the ways already that God has given me grace to exhibit ways to serve Him by the gift He gave me in Joey.  In many ways I get to do that on the mission field and here on BI, by sharing Joey's story and the events that followed his departure that definitely glorified God.  I guess my challenge, and more than a challenge but the joy I obtain in building on Joey's legacy--through my life and building on Jesus legacy for the Kingdom--is to be able to carry Joey with me each and every day, and through ministry opportunities especially.  I can;t think of a better way to honor Joey and God at the same time.  Because like you shared Anne, knowing that our sons belong to Jesus, it definitely brings them pleasure where they are to know the Kingdom is growing by sharing with others here their stories and lives.  Fascinating!  Isn't it?

Well, that was my deep thought moment for the day, I think.  It's kind of nice having peace and quiet here for a day and night, and not having to prepare meals and such.  It feels like a mini vacation, and I am going to enjoy it.  Because very soon another group will arrive, and it will be off to work for me again in preparations and all that taking care of them while they are here entails.  Love to you all, and I'm so very glad that we have this place to come and share.  -Claudia

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Claudia, I am so glad too. :) Although so many others on the BI site also share a Christian faith, I really need to be able to talk about what I believe and how it affects my grief process in an uninhibited way. I listen and learn from others too.

Right now I am going through the motions, reading my bible daily, praying, reading Christian literature on grief and loss.Have you read Randy Alcorn's book "Heaven"? It has helped me have a clearer idea of what Heaven may be like, and it sound's good!

 I now have a daily flip calendar with extracts from the book which I have placed on my kitchen window next to a photo of Jamie.It helps me focus each day on where Jamie is- and where I will be too someday, with him again. No more tears no more pain.Heaven!

I go to church each week and still lead a midweek study group ( badly) but I cry all the time at church - it's the music and the words that get to me.I miss playing in a band with Jamie, hearing him play seeing him larking around with the others youngsters at church. And my poor husband, such a lovely leader, broken and suffering so.

I have to be faithful but to be honest I don't feel God very close to me just when I need His touch most.

It's late now here in the UK so I have to go.Work tomorrow etc.

Thanks for listening.

Love Anne

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Another good book is 90 minutes in Heaven by Don Piper.  It is really interesting.  This man was dead for 90 minutes and experienced what he believes was heaven.  Music played such an important part in his experience.  For those of us who love music it really shows you how wonderful and important music and praise is to God. 

I will have to look into the book by Randy Alcorn about Heaven.  It is funny how something that didn't play a big role in my life has become so important now that my son is there.  :)

Sal

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Anne,

I think your son must be enjoying the music in Heaven and perhaps even has a special musical role.  I don't know how things work but as I mentioned in the previous post, Don Piper believes music is an integral part of Heaven.  Much more importance given to it there then here.  My son Joshua love to sing and I believe he is singing and making music with more joy then I could ever imagine.

Sal

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Hi, Anne!  Glad you found us here.  We aren't intentionally hiding out.  We just need a place to share without being or feeling inhibited.  Remembering that we are all grieving, we can be a witness to others, but primarily we just need to heal, I feel. 

Obviously, since I mentioned Alcorn's book, I loved it.  I inhaled it when I first read it.  My husband was an artist (instead of a musician as I am and your children were).  I think of him painting in heaven, painting even more beautifully than he painted here. 

We're getting ready to go out for a while.  I just saw you here and wanted to welcome you.  ~Oneta

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 I also read the book 90 minutes in heaven and it really touched my heart and it was wonderful to invision what heaven is like for our sons. I read the book in four days a month after my son passed away. I will also have to check out the Alcorn book. I am always looking for a good book to help in my healing. I read the bible but like to have other readings to help on my journey. I have had a week of darkness that just seemed to swallow me up. I have prayed and asked the Lord to continue to help me. It is just the missing of Brent's physical being that is hitting very hard. It just seems to overwhelm me and I continue to ask God's guidance in this journey. My husband said to me tonight how are we going to get through this journey it is so heartbreaking and we both feel no joy. It seems like the pain is getting more intense than better. I pray the Lord will get me through another day and somewhere we will find a purpose and joy once again. Sorry for my ramblings, I am just in a deep sadness. It has been 5 months and its seems like it is day one again...... Any other Christian book suggestions would be greatly appreciated.... Love and prayers to all, Lana

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4everjoeysmom

Lana, My heart is truly breaking for you, and I am lifting you in prayer.  I remember the exact place you describe, and I recall it beginning after 3 months and sticking around for a while--that overwhelming sorrow and missing.  I have my waves from time to time, but I have rekindled my joy.  I hope you can hang onto knowing that others have been exactly where you are now and have come through that dark valley to find light again.  Hold on tight and know we are here with you, as is the Lord.  I know we can;t always feel Him near, especially when it seems so dark.  But just because we can't feel Him, doesn't mean He isn't there.   went through a time of "silence", and I believe it was a time the Lord used to teach me to "wait on Him".  Also, I think in the silence, we search deeper into our faith, looking for the sound of the still, small voice.  He is with you.  He promised to be!!  BIG HUGS, Claudia

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loveyoujustin

Hi everyone.  Lana, I am in the exact same place you are.  Very, very scary, and filled with despair.   At times I feel I am hanging on by my fingernails, and fight to get back up, keep going, and stop  thinking so much, just to ease some of the intense heaviness in my heart.  When I think that I could be here, years without Justin, physically, I panic.  I just don't want to do it!  I know I have to, but I don't want to!!!!

Going to the "denial" issue.  I am not completely immersed in denial, but I deliberately do it to myself sometimes.  In my mind I pretend Justin is just away at school, and coming home soon, or at worst, and I really don't know how or why, sometimes I try not to think of him at all, as though he didn't exist.  It's scary.  I spoke to the therapist about it, and he says it is the mind's coping mechanism when times get really bad.  Not sure, but I know it scares me.

I have 100% faith and trust in God, and know Justin is still alive and happy, in Paradise.  I am finding my way back to prayer.  Slowly, but surely.  I prayed so very hard, many times a day, especially when my kids drove out of the driveway, "Dear God, please keep my family safe from harm, illness, injury, accident."  I lost some hope in prayer now.  Don't get me wrong, not in faith, and the truth and knowledge that I know I will be with Justin again.  Just in prayer, I think. Did I pray too hard, too much, or did God, in His infinite wisdom, bring Justin Home, to peaceful paradise because I prayed for such happiness for him.  Well, I am relieved to have help with all of you wonderful souls.   I am glad to be here, maybe on my  sorrowful journey that you all have guided me on, you can also guide me back to prayere,  with your wisdom.

I do wish for all of us, peace and love.               Trish

www.JustinScottWagnerMemorialFund.com

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Trish,  It's such a hard road to travel when you've lost someone as dear to you as your son.  Hanging on by our fingernails... dancing around the mouth of the bottomless pit... we've all done that.  Trying to keep our heads above the water when the waves are swirling and tossing and threatening to cover our heads and the current pull us under. 

I have had the same thoughts about being here for years and years more without my husband.  I know that feeling.  It's been so long already, and just to know it could be so much longer... it's something I don't even like to think about.

Denial as you have done it is just a coping mechanism, as your therapist says.  We've all done that.  It's what we have to do in the beginning of grief.  It's okay.  You're okay.  The time will come for reality.  Just put yourself in God's hands and He'll bring you to that point when you're ready. 

Our prayers are with you.  ~Oneta

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momofonewhosoars

I haven't read the whole thread so if this has been posted sorry. I have a daily devotional book written by parents who lost an infant and then a teenager also. It's called

'Grace for Grief: Daily Comfort for Those Who mourn'

It's written by Michael and Brenda Pink. It's got 365 deviotionals in it. Enough for an entire year. It's an AMAZING book and has been keeping me sane since Calypso died

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I will check out the book Grace for Grief. Its sounds like something that would help me on this journey.

Claudia, thanks for your support it helps me to know brighter days will emerge once again. It just seems so strange how you can be doing okay and then that darkness can creep into your life. I am just so Thankful to know where my son is and the hope and promise of eternal life for all of us. It is just my human selfishness that misses Brent so much. I know Brent would be so sad to see how many tears I have cried and how my life as altered it course since his death on earth. Your prayers, my other children, and Gods promise is what keeps me going day by day.

Trish, I know we are on the same journey within a day of each other. Do not loose hope of your prayers. I had always prayed to keep my children safe and protect them. We are never promised another day on earth but we are promised and eternal life with our Lord. I know all of our boys are singing and enjoying life in heaven. I know it does not help the heartbreaking pain of loosing your beloved Justin but I just keep grabbing on to knowing that we will be reuntied with our sons one day and life in heaven has no time. I know how if just seems impossible to go another day without your beloved Justin but he is happy in his life in heaven as promised in the Bible. I know we will carry this hurt for years but I listen to Claudia and know we do have hope and with Gods love and grace we will find a purpose, hope and joy in our lives once again. We will always cherish the one we lost and they will always been in our heart for the rest of our lives on earth. This morning the cloud of darkness seems to be lifting today and I know it is the power of prayer that hlpes me move through another day.

Anne, my thoughts and prayers all always with you and your family. I know how difficult it is to sing with joy at church when your heart is breaking. I know one day the joy of song and worship will return to your lives. I just think with time and healing the Lord will give you that pupose in life once again. To this day when a song that my grandmother loved is played I cry but it is tears of joy and remeberance of my wonderful Christian grandmother. It was tears of sorrow at one time and over the years it turned into tears of joy of all her wonderful memories. I will keep everyone in my prayers and hope today is a better day than yesterday for everyone. Thanks for all your love and prayers and the love of the Lord is what keeps me strong for another day. Love, Lana

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4everjoeysmom

Thank you Calypso's Mom for the devotional recommendation.

Trish, I guarantee you that I have been through absolutely every fear, action and emotion to a "T" that you described.  After the shock started to fade, I began to think about Joey as if he packed up and went off on a very long trip.  It helped me to cope in the moments of the despairing emotions of knwoing he wouldn't be retutning to this as home.  I eventually was able to work through that, but it took a lot of patience with myself and patience with God.  And honestly, I can't say I was all that patient on my own accord, but I was forced to be.  I also had a stretch where praying was something that I couldn't do.  i didn't want to, because like you, I felt mixed emotions about what prayers had already been answered and how.  I went through all of the questions in my heart and mind of how I could have prayed differently, what i could have done or said differently, and if God truly had compassion and love for me, etc...  But the Wisdom in this Faith speaks clear answers to all of my questions.  I just didn't want to see them or even look for them for a while.  The bottom line, I was disappointed and angry with God.  I had committed my life to him, left home, gone into fulltime mission service, etc, and I was appalled that, that wasn't enough.  (In reality that was a lie from th enemy.)  In my distrust and anger I centered my loss around "me", which is a very, very natural thing to do.  Why not?  Joey is and was MY son.  His departure affects MY life.  "I" am the one whose grief is beyond understanding at times.  "I am his mother, and he is not supposed to leave this life before "I do.  And the list goes on...  The more I moved into that place of focusing solely on my loss, my grief, my son who wouldn't be coming through this life's door anymore, his things being all there was left, and so on, the more I fell into darkness and despair.  I could literally hear the enemy's voice with each dark thought I had, like he was twisting my pain deeper and deeper inside of me to lure me into a trap of despair and hopelessness.  It was VERY scary.  I had to FIGHT MY WAY OUT.  In time I began to open up to sermons on pain and suffering, and I craved to learn more about the godly perspective in claiming victory over life's painful circumstances.  It was God's voice in me becoming louder than the enemy's voice.  It was a WAR inside of me.  I think this is more common than we realize with believers who go through trials such as ours.  But we feel so isolated and maybe even a little ashamed in defense of our faith that we tell ourselves we muct not have enough faith, or we must have not been good enough, or whatever.  And it keeps us from opening up and seeking.  It keeps us from reaching out for the salt and light in other Christians that can be truly edifying and supportive to us.  We go into silence and despair sets in...  even when we read about the hope others have, like on BI postings, we just can't relate that to ourselves in those darkest moments.  We feel alone in our pain.

Scripture tells us we are NOT alone.  God will not leave or forsake us.  Joshus 1:9 was and remains my favorite Scripture verse of all times.  Joshus was being prepared to go into battle.  And the Lord told Joshua to keep the Law of God written on his heart, do not let it depart from his mouth, and to meditate on it day and night, "so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success. (Jos 1:8)

Jos 1:9 "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go."

 I used this same Scripture verse to minister to my former boss, who was like a father to me, and who dies of cancer in September of 2005.  When he took me into his office and shared his prognosis, I saw fear in him, and a great sadness.  In that moment I shared my faith with him, because he was not certain what beyond death would mean for him.  I had a little medalion that I had bought and carried with me with the Joshua 1:9 Scripture verse on it.  After we talked I placed the medalion in his hand and prayed for him.  I visited him a couple of times after that, the last time being in his home just 4 days before he passed.  I remember looking into his frail and tired eyes and seeing a determination that was not there before.  I asked him if I would see him again after this life, and without hesitation he answered, YES.

I never knew how much I would come to cling to that very Scripture verse.  God reminded me how much I looked to Him for strength and wisdom in the dark hours for my friend.  He showed me that, that Scripture meant no less for me than it did for Joshua or for my boss.  We all have to face a battle or war at some point in our lives if we live long enough.  It's part of life in the world as it is now, after "the Fall" and before "the New Earth".

So, I began to buckle into my armor:

Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Eph 6:14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, Eph 6:15 and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; Eph 6:16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Eph 6:17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

It will take some time to get in a habit of putting on armor every day, but we all can do this.  It's expected of us, and its so necessary to fight the battle, the spiritual war within us, where the enemy is telling us to crawl into a hole and stay there, because we aren't strong enough to fight this battle (our loss and grief in this case).  But GOD says differently.  He paid his life so that we could claim victory in His victory at calvary.  It's true!!

Once I began to get into the mindset that I would put on my armor and fight every minute of every day, I can't tell you that I didn't have setbacks.  But I was determined to make Joey proud of me, and to show God that I truly DO BELIEVE that His battle was fought and won for ME just as much as for anyone else.  I began to search online and download sermons, and I listened to some pretty tough ones that beat me up a little bit, because I knew that I did not really have complete trust and faith in God; that He would pray for me whan I couldn't, and that He knew for my good better than I.

Rom 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; Rom 8:27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

It took a while, and each of us have a like-journey, but a different one at the same time.  God created us uniquely, but at the same time created us equally in His image.  And no matter what our trial, He will NOT abandon us.  But it takes some work on our part.  We need to clothe ourselves in Him.  We need to seek His voice above and beyond the voices of the world and spiritual relam.  That does not mean that I still don't cry and miss my son terribly.  I do.  But I have a weapon of defense and a promise from God that this life is but our temporary home.  There is a home much greater and eternal waiting for us, and there is where our precious beloveds gone before us are too.

Heaven does seem so far away.  And like you, Trish, and so many others, I really don;t want to live a long life here.  But I know that too is up to God, and I have to trust that His purpose will be served in me no matter, and my rewards in Heaven, no matter the amount of time, will be to fellowship forever with my Savior and with Joey.  But for the time being, I have to work at it every songle day.  I have to seek God.  I have to put on the armor.  I have to pray, and when I can't, I have to know in my heart that He is interceding for me.  And when I am disobedient, He is still there, guiding me in His wisdom and convicting my heart to stay awake, and when I am weak He is my strength, and it goes on and on, and on.  He loves you so much, my dear Sister.  And my prayer for you is that you will find in His strength the desire to seek His voice, however still it may be in the moment, and that you can know He is God, and He is with you.

I'm sorry this is so long winded, but please know I am praying for you.  I know your suffering...  HUGS, Claudia

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4everjoeysmom

For All,  I use an electronic Bible on my laptop, which makes it so easy to search Scripture by topics and keywords.  I have a few versions of translations, such as the ESV, NASB, NKJV, MSG, a couple of Spanish ones, and extras for studying and comparison purposes.  You can download electronic Bibles that are super-user friendly from e-sword at

http://www.e-sword.net/bibles.html

I just wanted to share that, because using the Bible in this way has made studying and being in the Word daily and often easier, more fun, and more rewarding for me.  It helps me to search and look up Scripture in a split second...  Blessings, Claudia

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Anne,

I'm so very sorry for your lost of Jamie. I have read your post on the other threads and wanted to tell you about this one but wasn't sure how the others would take that. I'm so glad you found this thread.

Claudia,

Once again in your kind words that I know the Lord laid on your heart to write was exactly what I needed today. I have had a couple of bad days in a row. Thanks for your encouraging words of wisdom.

Prayers and Hugs to Everyone,

Sonya (Danielle's Mom)

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4everjoeysmom

Sonya,  I am lifting you up in prayer as well.  The waves are so hard to ride,and many times we will be knocked off of the stability of our surf boards when the waves come crashing in.  I kind of visual at that point that God tosses us a flotation device, and so we have to look for it, take hold, and ride out the wave until we are able to get back on the board.  It's a process over and over again.  But we're doing it, with the help of His love and mercy.  We WILL make it through....  BIG HUGS, Claudia 

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Good morning all.  Wonderful discussion this morning.  I see some of you were on very early... at least it's early to me here in Texas.  May not be across different time zones.

Momofonewhosoars:  I've seen your post on another thread and wondered by your login name if you were a Christian.  I hope to see you here more. 

I so agree with the things all of you have said about the spiritual struggle we face with our losses.  Claudia's description of the darkness growing deeper inside her as she believed the lies is very true as long as we listen to those lies.  I had a similar experience in facing the death of my husband.  I wasn't really questioning God per se, but was believing a whole bunch of lies in regard to guilt, etc.  The Enemy knows us pretty well and knows where our soft underbelly is.  That's why using the armor (which is prayer basically) is so necessary.  People do become very isolated in grief.  It's a lonely path to be on.  It's lonely because, as common as it is to experience deep loss, it's rare in each of our associations usually.  Most of the people around me, my friends, people in my church, etc., haven't lost children, didn't become a widow at 21 or have to walk blindly through a "complicated grief" 30 years later, etc.  It puts us in a minority.  It's hard to know who to reach out to, and sometimes that keeps us from reaching out at all.   We are usually fighting a war on several different levels. 

I have always loved the story of Jehoshaphat in 2 Chron 20.  They had received a report that "a vast army is coming against (them) from Edom".  They were terrified because of the size of this army.  Then Jehoshaphat stands before the people and prays.  It's a long prayer and I don't want to type out the whole thing, but basically he praises God for His power and might and reminds himself and the people that God's power is greater than the enemy they faced.  He says, "...Power and might are in your hand, and no one can withstand you." vs 6b  "For we have no power to face this vast army that is attacking us.  We do not know what to do, but our eyes are upon you."  vs 12  Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jahaziel, son of Zechariah, and he said, "Listen, King Jehoshaphat and all who live in Judah and Jerusalem!  THis is what the Lord says to you.  Do not be afraid or discouraged because of this vast army.  For the battle is not yours, but God's!" vs 15

I love that verse and others similar to it.  There have been many times when I haven't had the strength to fight, when my defenses are down and I am weak with grief and know that the Enemy is too much for me to fight.  But I claim this promise each time - that God will fight for me - and He has never failed me yet.  He has literally carried me through this time.  If He hadn't done that, I would have probably died by now (I'm not exaggerating).  This has gone on for almost 5 years for me.  There was a period of time about 3 to 3-1/2 years ago when I was so deep in grief that I had virtually stopped eating.  I wasn't trying to kill myself, but I was killing myself nonetheless.  I lost about 50 pounds over a little over a year's time.  I was in the deepest pit I've ever been in and really believed I would die in it.  I found a Psalm that I wrote out and taped above my computer so I would see it as I worked, and I clung to it. 

Ps 13  How Long, O Lord?  Will you forget me forever?  How long will you hide your face from me?  How long must I wrestle with my thoughts and every day have sorrow in my heart?  How long will my enemy triumph over me?  Look on me and answer, O Lord my God.  Give light to my eyes or I will sleep in death.  My enemy will say, "I have overcome him."  and my foes will rejoice when I fall.  But I will trust in your unfailing love.  My heart rejoices in your salvation.  I will sing to the Lord for he has been good to me.  I really clung to that last part.  Like I said, I put it over my computer and it's stayed there.  I don't know if I'll ever take it down.  Even though I'm not in that pit anymore, when I look up there and see it, it's a daily reminder of where I was and what God has delivered me from. 

Grief has a way of testing us like nothing I've ever known.  It tests what we're made of.  It tests what we really believe.  Do we really believe those promises that are so easily and almost glibly cited by people who haven't had such a tragedy in their lives?  Do we really believe in God's goodness?  Or do we choose to believe the lies?  Do we really believe the beautiful passages about Heaven?  Do we really believe that Jesus has triumped over death and the grave?  Or is that just something nice to read at Easter? 

Well, now I'm the one who has gotten long-winded.  I just needed to say these things.  I don't get to talk about this kind of thing to anyone else.  I know all of you really understand the battle we face.  I hope this helps you in some way.  Blessings to each of you throughout the day.  ~Oneta 

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